Obama Shows No Fear Of GOP Chickenhawks

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Patrick Degan
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Obama Shows No Fear Of GOP Chickenhawks

Post by Patrick Degan »

The proper way to respond to liars and bullies.
Monday February 25, 2008 10:08 EST
Obama shows that dismissing slimy right-wing attacks is not difficult

By far, the most significant pattern in how our political discourse is shaped is that the right-wing noise machine generates scurrilous, petty, personality-based innuendo about Democratic candidates, and the establishment press then mindlessly repeats it and mainstreams it. Thus, nothing was more predictable than watching the "Obamas-are-unpatriotic-subversives" slur travel in the blink of an eye from the Jack Kingstons, Fox News adolescent McCarthyites, and Bill Kristols of the world to AP, MSNBC, and CNN. That's just how the right-wing/media nexus works.

Far more notable is Barack Obama's response to these depressingly familiar attacks. In response, he's not scurrying around slapping flags all over himself or belting out the National Anthem, nor is he apologizing for not wearing lapels, nor is he defensively trying to prove that -- just like his Republican accusers -- he, too, is a patriot, honestly. He's not on the defensive at all. Instead, he's swatting away these slurs with the dismissive contempt they deserve, and then eagerly and aggressively engaging the debate on offense because he's confident, rather than insecure, about his position:

About not wearing an American flag lapel pin, Obama said Republicans have no lock on patriotism.

"A party that presided over a war in which our troops did not get the body armor they needed, or were sending troops over who were untrained because of poor planning, or are not fulfilling the veterans' benefits that these troops need when they come home, or are undermining our Constitution with warrantless wiretaps that are unnecessary?

"That is a debate I am very happy to have. We'll see what the American people think is the true definition of patriotism."


Ever since 2002 -- at least -- most national Democrats have quivered with fear the moment Republicans utter words like "patriotism" and "national security." Traumatized by the 2002 mid-term elections, George Bush's 70% approval ratings, and the media's lock-step adoration of the Commander-in-Chief, to this day they become frozen the moment such attacks are even suggested and desperately and defensively try to comply with whatever demands are made of them. Like many trauma victims, they can never break free of the terror from their past, and still live perpetually in 2002, whereby George Bush's invocation of the words "patriotism" and "terrorism" can send them into spasms of fear and submission.


Perhaps (in part) because he wasn't in Washington in 2002, Obama's response here is the opposite of all of that. He's not the slightest bit defensive. To the contrary, he went out of his way to raise numerous examples of why it is the flag-waving Republicans whose "patriotism" ought to be in doubt, if anyone's should be. Without having to do so, Obama even went and raised the issue which Republicans currently think is their big, bad weapon -- warrantless spying on Americans -- and used it against them, to argue that spying on Americans is a profound violation of core American political principles, a far more substantive test of "patriotism" than what pretty accessories one wears with one's clothes.

Obama's approach illustrates the fundamental difference between these two types responses:

* Even though I am kind of against the war and a little bit against the new FISA bill for now, I love my country and want to protect Americans, too, just like the Republicans do -- honest (the standard Democratic response); and,

* If anyone's patriotism should be considered suspect, it's those who want to send Americans off to die in a worthless and destructive war and those who want to eviscerate our basic political values by torturing, detaining people with no rights, and spying on American citizens with no warrants (the gist of Obama's response here).


Slimy accusations that one is "soft on the Terrorists" or "unpatriotic" will be effective if people see the accused, in response, nervously trying to deny the accusations, trying to run away from one's own beliefs, defensively trying to comply with the demands of the accusers in order to make the accusations go away. By contrast, the accusations will be rendered worthless if the accused stands by one's own principles and convictions and aggressively seeks out the debate, turning the accusations around on the accusers.

Most Democrats have yet to learn that lesson. Obama's response here strongly suggests that he has. Although there is still a significant chance that Democrats will ultimately give the President most if not all of what he wants on the FISA bill, perhaps their ongoing refusal to capitulate quickly even in the face of all-out GOP fear-mongering -- along with Obama's refusal to do the same with regard to these patriotism attacks -- will demonstrate that (regardless of their "real beliefs" on war and surveillance) such capitulation is not only unnecessary but completely contrary to their own political interests.
Taking the GOP's stolen patriotism street-cred and shoving it right back down their throats —with a broom handle.

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Post by Darth Wong »

It is indeed refreshing. When Madeline Albright was on The Daily Show, she mentioned her confidence in Clinton due to her serving on numerous Senate oversight committees. What she did not mention was that these oversight committees invariably folded like a cheap tent whenever Republicans leaned on them, especially early on when it would have really mattered. So if anything, Clinton has plenty of experience letting the right-wing walk all over the country.
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Post by SirNitram »

This is really why I like Obama; though I disagree on several issues, he will actually fight back against the GOP, campaign in Red states and not consider them lost causes, and has a big ground operation, not just the patronage machine. It's what's needed to reform the party.
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Post by Gullible Jones »

Maybe it's a sign of the times that this looks almost too good to be true.

(Honestly, though, I'll take "maybe too good to be true" over an obviously crappy candidate any day.)
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Witty, and effective I might say. And he certainly doesn't allow them to take the initiative.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Flag pin? Are they still harping on that? What country is this again, United States of America or D.P.R.K.? :lol:
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Post by Vympel »

Stas Bush wrote:Flag pin? Are they still harping on that? What country is this again, United States of America or D.P.R.K.? :lol:
It's fucking pathetic, isn't it?

I've been reading Glenn Greenwald since 2005 - no one does a better job in cataloging the abject cowardice of most of the Democratic Party against the right-wing for the past 7 years or so, and how it hurts them (the worst being their idiotic idea that they will appear "strong" if they cave into Republican demands dressed up as being necessary for national security, as opposed to weak).

Maybe Obama reads him :)
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

SirNitram wrote:This is really why I like Obama; though I disagree on several issues, he will actually fight back against the GOP, campaign in Red states and not consider them lost causes, and has a big ground operation, not just the patronage machine. It's what's needed to reform the party.
Its like the man majored in 'Presidential Badass' at University.
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Post by weemadando »

I liked Obama's latest slam on McCain and the Republican's and certain Democrat's too.

McCain's statement about of course there is Al'Qaeda in Iraq, in an effort to make Obama look like a fool for saying AQ hadn't been there.

Obama's response apparently went: "There wasn't AQ in Iraq until [McCain], Bush and other led the invasion."
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Perhaps I have misjudged the US presidential campaign model. If it is filled with more goodness like this, then it can go on for another year and I'd be happy. The Republicans would probably slip out the back door after having so many concrete arguments of theirs torn asunder so publicly.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Except that even if you defeat an argument, the argument becomes "common sense" wisdom through sufficient repetition. That's the unfortunate reality of the way peoples' brains work. You can repeat a bad argument a thousand times and people can refute it a thousand times, but if you keep repeating that argument, it becomes a meme anyway.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

People are stupid. This I know. But I can at least derive some amusment from seeing a Democrat with a physical backbone. Even if the best way to counter these people is with blunt trauma to the brain case, and not logic and reason.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

And it's looking more and more like Obama knows the Chicago Way*:

McCain tries a funny
I'm not embarrassed to tell you that I did not watch the Democrat debate last night," McCain said, "but I am told that Senator Obama made the statement that if Al Qaeda came back to Iraq after he withdraws -- after the American troops are withdrawn -- then he would send military troops back, if Al Qaeda established a military base in Iraq. I have some news: Al Qaeda is in Iraq. Al Qaeda, it's called Al Qaeda in Iraq, and my friends if we left they wouldn't be establishing a base, they wouldn't be establishing a base, they'd be taking a country. And I'm not going to allow that to happen my friends. I will not surrender. I will not surrender to Al Qaeda.
To which Obama responds with a backhand
I said, well I would always reserve the right to go in and strike against al Qaeda if they were in Iraq. So, you know, this is how politics works. McCain thought that he could make a clever point by saying, 'Well, let me give you some news Barack, al Qaeda IS in Iraq,' like I wasn't reading the papers. Like I didn't know what was going on.

But I have some news for John McCain, and that was that there's no such thing as al Qaeda in Iraq until George Bush and John McCain decided to invade Iraq!

I've gone some news for John McCain: He took us into a war, along with George Bush, that should have never been authorized and never been waged. They took their eye off the people who were responsible for 9/11, and that would be al Qaeda in Afghanistan that is stronger now than anytime since 2001.

I've been paying attention John McCain! That's the news.

So John McCain may like to say he wants to follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of Hell. But so far all he's done is follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq that's cost us thousands of lives and billions of dollars.
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Post by Shroom Man 777 »

That's a mighty fine diss. Like Obama dropkicking a wheelchair bound McCain off a flight of stairs. Man, the guy's as eloquent as those British dudes!
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Post by Covenant »

Saint John isn't the first one to use this line of reasoning when it comes to getting the badguy and it's always sounded a little thinly reasoned, if you ask me.

McCan: "So, now you give the Devil the benefit of diplomacy!"

Obama: "Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?"

McCain: "Why, yes! I'd cut down every law in Englan-err, America to do that!"

Sir Thomas: "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, John, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down--and you're just the man to do it, Senator--do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"

McCain: "...to the gates of Hell!"
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Post by Mr. Sinister »

The video's even better. :)
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

:lol: That's so horrible :lol:
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Post by PainRack »

Covenant wrote:Saint John isn't the first one to use this line of reasoning when it comes to getting the badguy and it's always sounded a little thinly reasoned, if you ask me.

McCan: "So, now you give the Devil the benefit of diplomacy!"

Obama: "Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?"

McCain: "Why, yes! I'd cut down every law in Englan-err, America to do that!"

Sir Thomas: "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, John, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down--and you're just the man to do it, Senator--do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?"

McCain: "...to the gates of Hell!"
I'm trying desperately to remember where this quote is from and its context.........
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

PainRack wrote:I'm trying desperately to remember where this quote is from and its context.........
Its from 'A Man for All Seasons', when Roper came to arrest Sir Thomas Moore for being 'A bad man', in violation of 'God's law'.

Its really the pivotal moment of the play, when Roper starts to see that he's destroying his world to save it.
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Post by Covenant »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
PainRack wrote:I'm trying desperately to remember where this quote is from and its context.........
Its from 'A Man for All Seasons', when Roper came to arrest Sir Thomas Moore for being 'A bad man', in violation of 'God's law'.

Its really the pivotal moment of the play, when Roper starts to see that he's destroying his world to save it.
It's actually after Rich leaves. Richard Rich, the hilariously named man of weak will, is being tempted. Tempted by a job--and wants to be employed by Thomas, something, anything, so he can get somewhere in his life. But he's a worm and everyone knows it, and Cromwell especially, who is looking for someone to flip Sir Thomas for anything. Cromwell has been asking questions, and Richie is shaking, emploring Sir Thomas for a job. He leaves and them everyone erupts with anger that Moore just lets him go.
Lady Alice (Sir Thomas' Wife): "Arrest him!"

Sir Thomas: "For what?"

Lady Alice: "He's dangerous!"

Roper: "For all we know he's a spy!"

Daughter Margaret: "Father, that man is bad!"

Sir Thomas: "There's no law against that!"

Roper: "But there is, God's law!"

Sir Thomas: "Then let God arrest him!"

Lady Alice: "While you talk he's gone!"

Sir Thomas: "And go he should, if he were the Devil himself, until he broke the law."

Roper: "So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law?"

Sir Thomas: "Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?"

Roper: "Why, yes! I'd cut down every law in England to do that!"

Sir Thomas: "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down--and you're just the man to do it, Roper!--do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil the benefit of law, for my own safety's sake."
The message is, of course, that the law isn't a bludgeon against the evil, but a protection for the good against them. Being wise in war, as well as politics and Devil-chasing, may benefit those we chase in a very superficial level, but it protects us from the kinds of no-holds-barred fight that evil does so terribly well in. It's the idea that we'd lay flat all the laws that make America distinguishable from a place like Afghanistan just so we could, with the last breaths of our nation, strangle Osama finally to death. McCain might follow bin Ladin to the gates of Hell, but he'd be dragging all of us there with him, and then the Devil would turn round and that wind would blow.
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Post by Covenant »

Actually, here's a link. So hard to find these:

[urlhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=WMqReTJkjjg]From the Film[/url]

Sadly, it's also a clip the Ron Paul sorts like. Ah well.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Yeah, the movie did the scene differently than the play. Good performance regardless.
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Post by JME2 »

Wow, it's a double consolation to my disbelief at McCain salvaging his campgain: Clinton's going down in flames and McCain's getting verbally bitchslapped by Obama. I love it... :twisted:
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Post by RedImperator »

In hindsight, people should have realized that a guy who successfully outmaneuvered Richard Daley in order to get the Illinois Democratic Senate nomination in 2004 is not going to be a pushover in any election. Hillary Clinton may have learned this the hard way, but (assuming she loses) that's going to be nothing compared to the painful lessons the GOP is going to get in a few months.
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