HOORAY! Philippines!

[Shroom Man 777]

Fucking A

Twenty-two years after a popular uprising toppled dictator Ferdinand Marcos, the Philippines may be on the verge of another People Power Revolution.

Galvanized by anti-corruption hearings in the Senate that have exposed a telecommunications contract allegedly involving US$130-million in kickbacks to senior government officials and the husband of Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, the Philippines President, tens of thousands of protesters have taken to the streets demanding her resignation.

For more than a week, the country has been buffeted by coup rumours, street protests and scandal.

Police, troops and tanks have been brought into central Manila to reinforce security as left-wing protesters, students, teachers, and groups backed by the Roman Catholic Church take to the streets in a continuous round of protests.

The country's Catholic bishops held a 10-hour emergency meeting on Tuesday to discuss the growing crisis, but backed away at the last minute from calling for Ms. Arroyo's resignation.

Instead, they issued a six-point pastoral letter condemning "the continuing culture of corruption from the top to the bottom of our social and political ladder" and urged the President to rescind her ban on officials and cabinet ministers testifying at congressional hearings.

Archbishop Leonard Legaspi, a spokesman for the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines, said the church leaders decided "asking for the President to resign is in itself a political exercise, which we leave for the people to decide."

Days earlier, Archbishop Angel Lagdameo, the conference president, called for "communal action" and "a new brand of people power" against a corrupt government.

The bishops played crucial roles in rallying non-violent revolts against Mr. Marcos in 1986 and then-president Joseph Estrada in 2001.

Both men were accused of plundering the economy and driven from power when protesters took to the streets demanding they resign.

Mr. Marcos fled the country, while Mr. Estrada was eventually convicted on corruption charges and pardoned a month later by Ms. Arroyo, his former vice-president, who was propelled to power when he resigned.

The police and the armed forces also played key roles in the two previous revolts, but

How can we tolerate a president of doubtful

legitimacy?

so far they have pledged their support for Ms. Arroyo.

This week, the Philippines' top generals staged a "unity march" to demonstrate their solidarity with the President.

"We assure the Filipino nation of our unequivocal allegiance to our flag and constitution and we give our word not to engage in any partisan political exercises," said General Hermogenes Esperon, the armed forces chief.

On Tuesday, however, state prosecutors went to court seeking a postponement in the trial of an opposition senator and 16 soldiers charged with rebellion for trying to stage a coup against Ms. Arroyo last year.

The prosecutors claimed they had intelligence reports of another coup attempt planned by junior military officers.

In the meantime, Corazon Aquino, who came to power after the first People Power revolt against Mr. Marcos, joined the calls for Ms. Arroyo to resign.

Fucking great. Motherfucking great. ARGH! God-damn. I mean, SURE I'm all GREAT for change. For a better world. You see me rambling about it all the time. Peace. Freedom. No War. Bunnies. Fluffy. Bullshit! One of those dudes hanging with the protestors was the president who got ousted in 2000! AND standing by his side is the former president who ousted Marcos back in the 80s.

Fuck them! And I'm sure when we get ANOTHER corrupt asshole in place, it'll be the two of them AND Arroyo (current corrupt leader) protesting and harping for resignation. Fuck them.

I say everyone should resign from the Philippines. Give it to the Koreans and those Old White Guys with their Mail Ordered Filipina Wives.

Anyway, TEN BILLIONS of Filipinos. They bring their children too and bring plastic playsets so the kids can have fun while they rally for... FREEDOM! Thank goodness we don't have much riots here and that protests are pretty laid back without teargassings or bludgeonings. The protestors also got nuns and bishops with them, and NO ONE hits nuns and bishops in the Philippines.

Hooray for anti-anti-papacy!

Fuck this. I'm going to the nearest civilized Western democracy. Hello, Australia!

[Sarevok]

Same thing has been happening all over the developing world. Countries become democratic. Then discover democracy is not magic. They merely replaced one tyrant with a system of tyrants who take power in turn.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Phillipines has the the distinct honor where "People's Revolution" is a fun and in thing to do. I'd say it's as crazy as the French lust for riots. Every year does not go by with at least a few attempted coups, at least for the last few years.

Doesn't help that the bulk of the population is stupid. Sigh...

[Sidewinder]

My concern is political instability in the Phillipines, which will likely lead to economic instability, which will lead to food shortages, which will lead to some army officer deciding to take advantage of the chaos and taking over-- again. The Filipinos have enough problems, e.g., MILF; they don't need riots, famines, and a power vacuum to be filled in by another military dictatorship.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

My concern is political instability in the Phillipines, which will likely lead to economic instability, which will lead to food shortages, which will lead to some army officer deciding to take advantage of the chaos and taking over-- again. The Filipinos have enough problems, e.g., MILF; they don't need riots, famines, and a power vacuum to be filled in by another military dictatorship.

You are behind the times. There hasn't been political stability ever since Estrada got elected.

[Mlenk]

Looking at this from an outsiders perspective.... just how bad is Gloria Arroyo anyway? I mean, looking in from the outside, the PI economy has been growing at it's fastest and most stable in a long time. Talking to friends over there, it just seems that her enemies (who are, perhaps even worse than her), are just very jealous and vindictive because none of their other attempts to oust her have worked, so they turn rile up the masses against her...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Looking at this from an outsiders perspective.... just how bad is Gloria Arroyo anyway? I mean, looking in from the outside, the PI economy has been growing at it's fastest and most stable in a long time. Talking to friends over there, it just seems that her enemies (who are, perhaps even worse than her), are just very jealous and vindictive because none of their other attempts to oust her have worked, so they turn rile up the masses against her...

Combination of factors. Philippines is practically a plutocracy. Pretty much all the jostling about is because all the political families are fighting for control. A lot of families have been in the business of politics for decades ever since the US left. Arroyo is no exception; she herself is a daughter of a former president.

[Mlenk]

Yes, but just how much of the allegations being leveled at her are true? Because it seems like these other families that are battling for control aren't really much better than her.

[Shroom Man 777]

They're all corrupt goons. How bad is Gloria Arroyo? Well, let's compare her to those guys organizing the rallies. One of them is a former President who got ousted cause he got caught red handed plundering the guv-ment. The other is the wife of Ferdinand fucking Marcos.

So its pretty much a petty squabble between a bunch of despicable crooks and liars, a squabble over who gets the biggest piece of pie. And the opposition is basically using the Oppressed Mass' discontentment over the current state of things to... well, to try and throw Arroyo out and put themselves in power. So they can continue the current state of things. But with them on top.

Literally: Out with the old boss in with the new boss, same as the old boss.

I guess we see this happen in third world shitholes everywhere. But I guess we have to thank the Americans, when they went over here and did their nation-building. If they hadn't, we would be no different from those Latin American shitholes. But we're not that much better.

Phillipines has the the distinct honor where "People's Revolution" is a fun and in thing to do. I'd say it's as crazy as the French lust for riots. Every year does not go by with at least a few attempted coups, at least for the last few years.

It's not as crazy as the French lust for riots since... we don't do much riots. Funny enough, our protests have prayer rallies and are actually rather peaceful. And the few attempted coups haven't had much in the way of bloodshed. I think all recent coup attempts were resolved bloodlessly.

Doesn't mean everything's good though.

Doesn't help that the bulk of the population is stupid. Sigh...

Can be said about any population, really... Damn!

My concern is political instability in the Phillipines, which will likely lead to economic instability, which will lead to food shortages, which will lead to some army officer deciding to take advantage of the chaos and taking over-- again. The Filipinos have enough problems, e.g., MILF; they don't need riots, famines, and a power vacuum to be filled in by another military dictatorship.

I wasn't aware we had any food shortage problems. I mean, I certainly don't hear of any woes from what little I listen of the local news. Sure, there could be some water shortages - but we're far better off than some African shithole where the militia gains power by distributing UN food rations before machinegunning down hungry hungry people (ala Somalia, Black Hawk Down).

The MILF are a bunch of kidnapping bandit wankers.


HOY! Fingolfin, are you a Filipino? *waves*

[Mlenk]

So its pretty much a petty squabble between a bunch of despicable crooks and liars, a squabble over who gets the biggest piece of pie. And the opposition is basically using the Oppressed Mass' discontentment over the current state of things to... well, to try and throw Arroyo out and put themselves in power. So they can continue the current state of things. But with them on top.

Yes, but (at least to my understanding) isn't Arroyo, with her economic policies, at least honestly trying to competently expand that pie (that Georgetown economics degree of hers has to count for something, doesn't it?), whereas the others couldn't give a shit, much less competently do so? Haha, maybe I've just been unduly influenced by my friends over there, who are ardent Arroyo supporters, or maybe not.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yes, but just how much of the allegations being leveled at her are true? Because it seems like these other families that are battling for control aren't really much better than her.

Likely both fabricated and true. No politician in SEA can be claimed to be even remotely a saint.

Yes, but (at least to my understanding) isn't Arroyo, with her economic policies, at least honestly trying to competently expand that pie (that Georgetown economics degree of hers has to count for something, doesn't it?), whereas the others couldn't give a shit, much less competently do so? Haha, maybe I've just been unduly influenced by my friends over there, who are ardent Arroyo supporters, or maybe not.

Arroyo in general is one of the better presidents in recent times, at least compared to Estrada.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

HOY! Fingolfin, are you a Filipino? *waves*

No, your friendly neighbour in Singapore. Don't worry, I try not to be arrogant like some of my countrymen.

[Shroom Man 777]

People are paying attention to the Philippines! YAY!

And yeah, Arroyo is one of the better Presidents. It's not a perfect situation, the country is chock full of corruption and there really isn't anyone better than Arroyo. I think. A lot of these protestors are just noisy scumsuckers who are worse or no better, or are utterly useless.

Maybe instead of bitching about change, gutting the system, and replacing it with another ineffectual piece of shit - they could actually, I don't know effect change and betterment from within. Work with what's there or something.

Gah. Those dickwads have taken that People Power meme and... turned it to shit. Fuck. Fuck them.

[D.Turtle]

Arroyo in general is one of the better presidents in recent times, at least compared to Estrada.

Not that that means much.

I mean, she is is better than the guy who got elected because he always played the defender of the common people in movies?

Its too bad that a President can't be reelected - my impression was that Ramos was the best President the Philippines has had - everything after him was a big step down in competence.

Feel free to correct me if thats wrong - I was not very interested in politics while I still lived in the Philippines (until 1998, at which time I was 13).

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Arroyo in general is one of the better presidents in recent times, at least compared to Estrada.

Not that that means much.

I mean, she is is better than the guy who got elected because he always played the defender of the common people in movies?

Its too bad that a President can't be reelected - my impression was that Ramos was the best President the Philippines has had - everything after him was a big step down in competence.

Feel free to correct me if thats wrong - I was not very interested in politics while I still lived in the Philippines (until 1998, at which time I was 13).

Ramos was probably the best for a long while, especially considering the damage done to the country by Marcos, whose wife still lives and still rouses plenty of trouble. Under him the country's democracy flourished and the economy boomed. Sadly, after he stepped down after several years at the helm, things weren't too good. Estrada is just a bumbling buffoon similar to Yeltsin minus the brains. Nearly all the posts were filled with his cronies, and corruption was rampant. Personally, I was glad he stepped down, though the problem was the methodology of taking him down from power became a fashion which partly contributed to the current problems of the country. It was a real pity the forms of the law were not followed.

[Shroom Man 777]

Philippine Presidents can get reelected, but there are two term limitations. And Ramos was good. Back then...a dollar was like, twenty pesos or something.

I want out. Almost every Filipino wants out. That's why we're all going to college and studying nurses en masse so we get GTFO and go tend to Old White People in America or New Zealand or Canada or Australia or the UK. Helps that we speak great English

Let the Koreans and those Old White Men and their Mail Ordered Filipina Wives inherit the Philippines. Fuck em.

[Mlenk]

From what it sounds like, the Philippine government and legal system needs a complete overhaul. I heard something awhile back that Arroyo wanted to switch the Philippine government to a Parliamentary system. Would that necessarily be a better system for a country like the PI?

[Shroom Man 777]

I have no fucking idea. I mean, even if you change the system, it's the people in the system fucking it up who are... well, fucking things up. What does a Parliamentary system entail, anyway?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

From what it sounds like, the Philippine government and legal system needs a complete overhaul. I heard something awhile back that Arroyo wanted to switch the Philippine government to a Parliamentary system. Would that necessarily be a better system for a country like the PI?

If I so recall correctly, part of the rationale for the parliamentary system was to obliterate all the old power structures and force all the goons to start anew and also attempt to force some of them out of office by default.

That didn't go anywhere, sadly.

[PainRack]

What I wonder is...... just how much political power the Catholic Church has in the Phillipines? After all, this would be the third People Power movement they been involved with, one would imagine that with this history behind them, they would be actively courted by any new politician.

[Shroom Man 777]

Oh, they are and they're really powerful in their suggestions.

But the people aren't idiots and so while people like the Catholic Church, they also like things like sex education, condoms, and gays. Gays are very widely accepted in the country, thank god for that. Abortions and divorces, unfortunately, aren't.

But we're not insane. Unlike other former Spanish colonies that turn into Latin American shitholes, we also had nearly half a century of American occupation that actually influenced us positively. That's why that while the national language is "Filipino", which is actually Tagalog and only spoken by those pricks who live near the capital, almost everyone speaks in English. Government procedures in the capital, with politicians and hearings and all, are done in English. The motherfucking Constitution is written in English.

So we're not a bunch of stupid insular morons who are pliable to all of the Church's whims. Even if the people apparently take the Church's suggestions seriously.

We truly are a paradoxical community. Between the political dynasties that probably originated when the Spaniards came and courted the ruling class of the Filipino natives to gain control of the common man, to the middle-upper-class Chinamen (including me and my family) who came from the Chinese junk-merchants and apparently got filthy rich, to the Church and to the common man and to the Muslims and to those MILF bandits and those communist NPAs stirring shit out in the far away provinces...

It's a confusing country.

[Shroom Man 777]

In the Past!

By 1984, his [Philippine Dictator Asshole Ferdinand Marcos] close personal ally, U.S. President Ronald Reagan, started distancing himself from the Marcos regime that he and previous American presidents had strongly supported even after Marcos declared martial law. The United States, which had provided hundreds of millions of dollars in aid, was crucial in buttressing Marcos' rule over the years.[17] During the Carter administration the relation with the U.S. soured somewhat when President Jimmy Carter targeted the Philippines in his human rights campaign. In 1981 Vice President George Bush seemed to signal a different approach when in his visit to Manila he told Marcos, "We love your adherence to democratic principles and to democratic processes."[18]

Note that Martial Law was declared in 1972 and stayed until 1981. So Ronald Reagan, the Greatest American President EVAR! (according to recent polls), along with a whole slew of American presidents were actively condoning Marcos' tyranny for almost a decade. Only when Marcos was on the verge of losing power (after Ninoy Acquino's assassination in '83) did the US start "distancing" itself away from Marcos. For the sake of convenience.

You know what they say about how US Foreign Policy was just a vicious cycle that involved propping up dictators and assholes in Third World countries (and then getting rid of them or ignoring them when they become inconvenient)?

Well, I guess my country was one of them.


If they ever find a rich reservoir of oil in my country... let's just say that the Heavens opening up to rain down fire upon us would be a welcomed blessing.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yeah... Marcos was just another of those "dictators who were defenders of democracy" and are "friends of the US". Where have we seen that before?

[Beowulf]

I've got a solution: Petition for Annexation to the United States of America.

[PainRack]

We truly are a paradoxical community. Between the political dynasties that probably originated when the Spaniards came and courted the ruling class of the Filipino natives to gain control of the common man, to the middle-upper-class Chinamen (including me and my family) who came from the Chinese junk-merchants and apparently got filthy rich, to the Church and to the common man and to the Muslims and to those MILF bandits and those communist NPAs stirring shit out in the far away provinces...

It's a confusing country.

lol. I remember one of the older nurse trying to warn us that you guys were more liberal in your attitude towards sex... I was laughing inside since she was talking to us guys....... perhaps the young punk beside me might have been offended, but I was literally joining in on all the dirty jokes.

It did shock me though when my friend told me that the majority of Filipinos are strict catholics, since won't that conflict with the smut ridden media of your country?