"The Language of Autism" and "Being an Unpers

[Warsie]

The Language of Autism
Look I know how to dress my links!

youtube vid 1
Look link dressing is fun!

Are people with autism trapped in their own world? Or are the rest of us just trapped in ours?

After seeing 27-year-old Amanda Baggs, featured in this month’s Wired magazine, you may rethink your views of the so-called “normal” world. Ms. Baggs, who lives in Burlington, Vt., is autistic and doesn’t speak. But she has become an Internet sensation as a result of an unusual video she created called “In My Language.'’

For the first three minutes of the video, she rocks, flaps her hands, waves a piece of paper, buries her face in a book and runs her fingers repeatedly across a computer keyboard, all while humming a haunting two-note tune.

Then, the words “A Translation” appear on the screen.

Although Ms. Baggs doesn’t speak, she types 120 words a minute. Using a synthesized voice generated by a software application, Ms. Baggs types out what is going on inside her head. The movement, the noise, the repetitive behaviors are all part of Ms. Baggs’ own “native” language, she says via her computerized voice. It’s a language that allows her to have a “constant conversation” with her surroundings.

My language is not about designing words or even visual symbols for people to interpret. It is about being in a constant conversation with every aspect of my environment, reacting physically to all parts of my surroundings.

Far from being purposeless, the way that I move is an ongoing response to what is around me….The way I naturally think and respond to things looks and feels so different from standard concepts or even visualization that some people do not consider it thought at all. But it is a way of thinking in its own right.

Ms. Baggs does far more than give us a vivid glimpse into her mind. Her video is a clarion call on behalf of people with cognitive disabilities whose way of communicating isn’t understood by the rest of the world. As the story in Wired points out, Ms. Baggs is at the forefront of a nascent civil rights movement on behalf of people with autism.

“I remember in ‘99, seeing a number of gay pride Web sites,'’ she tells the magazine. “I envied how many there were and wished there was something like that for autism. Now there is.”

Watching Ms. Baggs rock and flap is to see a person most of us would define as disabled. And that’s why the impact of the computerized voice and her cogent argument on behalf of people with autism is so powerful.

In the end I want you to know that this has not been intended as a voyeuristic freak show where you get to look at the bizarre workings of the autistic mind. It is meant as a strong statement on the existence and value of many different kinds of thinking and interaction in the world….Only when the many shapes of personhood are recognized will justice and human rights be possible.

Update: To read more about the autism activism movement, see “How About Not ‘Curing’ Us, Some Autistics Are Pleading,” which appeared in the Times in 2004. To read the story, click here.

also see.

video on how autistics are treated like shit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c5_3wqZ3Lk

Simlar vid to #2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn70gPukdtY

Reminds me of the 'experiments' to cure homosexuality. Society is a Piece-of-Shit and it's expected to see the disenfranchised fringe fucked over again due to biases.

Dress you Damn links-Bean

[Warsie]

yes I know it's old-I remember the youtube video and watching it earlier. Sorry. And sorry that the link stretched.

[Zablorg]

While that's all well and good, I can't help but think this could be taken to mean it's how all autistics think. It isn't. The workings of two autistics minds can be extraordinarily vast.

[Mr Bean]

Autism is a very odd condition, people who devolp Autism pretty much all have serious trouble with verbal or otherwise communication. However they can have any kind of IQ under the sun, even if the trend for most Autistics is towards mental retardation as a direct result of their condition.

However the comparison to gay pride I think is a bad one. There is no "pride" in being Autistic, no more than their can be "pride" in being blind. It's simply a condition, a negative one as far as society and science are concern and one that can hopefully be corrected when science and genetic research have advanced far enough.

[Dominus Atheos]

However the comparison to gay pride I think is a bad one. There is no "pride" in being Autistic, no more than their can be "pride" in being blind. It's simply a condition, a negative one as far as society and science are concern and one that can hopefully be corrected when science and genetic research have advanced far enough.

You ever heard of that Deaf Culture shit that actually has the balls to compare giving hearing aids to deaf children to the efforts to develop a "cure" for black people to rid them of their "affliction"? Well, some fucking idiots are already starting up an Autistic culture that says it's wrong to give autistic people therapy that help them assimilate with the "non-Auties" culture.

[Zablorg]

Good god, a group that actively objects to autistics intergation into society? Those kids aren't going to last 2 days in the real world if their ideals were pushed forward, especially in these times when a good paying job is more needed then ever.

[Knife]

Good god, a group that actively objects to autistics intergation into society? Those kids aren't going to last 2 days in the real world if their ideals were pushed forward, especially in these times when a good paying job is more needed then ever.

Indeed, these 'cultures' for deaf or now autism, can only exsist in a world where people who 'don't understand them or want to change them' make their world easy enough for them to exsist to bitch about it.

[Zablorg]

The problem is that these people who glorify autism probably don't understand two things. That the experience isn't exactly fun for the autistic people themselfs, and that employers don't give a shit whether you're "special" or not, so long as you get the job done. Which they won't be able in most cases unless they recieve social intergration through their development.

Seriously, there aren't many perks to being autistic, save perhaps a hightened perception of things and often an abnormal level of interest in a particual field. And while those qualities may provide certain talents they may otherwise not have, and the end of the day no-one really gives a shit whether you can recite the periodic table backwards.

[Mr Bean]

.

Seriously, there aren't many perks to being autistic, save perhaps a hightened perception of things and often an abnormal level of interest in a particual field. And while those qualities may provide certain talents they may otherwise not have, and the end of the day no-one really gives a shit whether you can recite the periodic table backwards.

Those conditions are not specific to being autistic but rather an autistic person forcing his or her condition to work for them.

au·tism (ô'tĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n. A pervasive developmental disorder characterized by severe deficits in social interaction and communication, by an extremely limited range of activities and interests, and often by the presence of repetitive, stereotyped behaviors

"Characteristic traits include lack of eye contact, repetition of words or phrases, unmotivated tantrums, inability to express needs verbally, and insensitivity to pain. Behaviors may change over time. Autistic children often have other disorders of brain function; about two thirds are mentally retarded; over one quarter develop seizures."

Emphasis mine, one of the many symptoms of autism is being abnormally focused on tasks, in some disciplines this can be a great boon.

Considering the possible effect autism can have, no sane person would sign themselves up to be autistic just to be better focused on their work.

[FSTargetDrone]

Looking at the video, it's hard to see how anyone who isn't autistic the way this individual is autistic could possibly "interpret" her "language" in any meaningful way.

Her actions may have profound meaning to her, but how can the everyday, "normal" person be expected to comprehend them? It looks like chaos.

If she is speaking a language no one else can understand, she may as well be speaking gibberish.

[FSTargetDrone]

I should add, without the benefit of a computer or other "translator."

[Cairber]

There are a lot of "neurodiversity" activists on another site I belong to. One on hand, I appreciate them because they seem to be the only ones arguing against DAN! doctors, detox therapies like chelation and shunning crazy diets for "curing" autism.

But, on the other hand, they fly off the handle at any mention of "cure" for autism or research in that direction.

[Warsie]

However the comparison to gay pride I think is a bad one. There is no "pride" in being Autistic, no more than their can be "pride" in being blind. It's simply a condition, a negative one as far as society and science are concern and one that can hopefully be corrected when science and genetic research have advanced far enough.

I think they'll hold a negative light when you try to 'cure' them of who they are. And the whole 'negative' condition is society's bias towards those who think differently.

Well, some fucking idiots are already starting up an Autistic culture that says it's wrong to give autistic people therapy that help them assimilate with the "non-Auties" culture.

You have a problem with people standing up for their rights? You wouldn't like it if you were forced 'therapy' to fit in with the mainstream because you acted or thought differently, would you?

Her actions may have profound meaning to her, but how can the everyday, "normal" person be expected to comprehend them? It looks like chaos.

If she is speaking a language no one else can understand, she may as well be speaking gibberish.

Other autists can understand what she said and they can communicate that way.

That the experience isn't exactly fun for the autistic people themselfs,

many of them are autistic themselves.

and that employers don't give a shit whether you're "special" or not, so long as you get the job done. Which they won't be able in most cases unless they recieve social intergration through their development.

Form their owm companies and business? Self-determination?

Seriously, there aren't many perks to being autistic, save perhaps a hightened perception of things and often an abnormal level of interest in a particual field. And while those qualities may provide certain talents they may otherwise not have, and the end of the day no-one really gives a shit whether you can recite the periodic table backwards.

mathematics? sciences? Don't many fields have a intense specialization?

a group that actively objects to autistics intergation into society?

Society shunns them, makes fun of them, etc. Why should they surrender to a entity that hates them?

Those kids aren't going to last 2 days in the real world if their ideals were pushed forward, especially in these times when a good paying job is more needed then ever.

They can form their own communities? IIRC some of them are doing that.

[Cairber]

My experience with active members of "neurodiversity" community has been that they are very outspoken against parents who chose to seek "a cure" through therapies. While I agree with them on some points in this (for example, detoxing for mercury is just stupid and dangerous) they take it to the extreme.

They also are very against organization working towards a cure such as Autism Speaks.

I have even seen them refer to cure based research as "seeking genocide."

[Warsie]

Indeed, these 'cultures' for deaf or now autism, can only exsist in a world where people who 'don't understand them or want to change them' make their world easy enough for them to exsist to bitch about it.

No, the internet (which autistics worked on-see Bram Cohen and bittorent.) and its' ability to connect all the disenfranchised of society allows that. They aren't isolated and forced to have "sense beaten into them" they can network without physical limitations and use that to an advantage ("hey I'm not the only person like that, you can's bullshit and claim I'm the only one who is").

[Stark]

I'd give my top twenty IQ points to be less autistic, and I'm extremely 'high-functioning'. People who say it's 'just as good' or 'it's just different' beggar the imagination.

But hey, they whole 'yay we're deaf' thing beggars my imagination too.

[[R_H]]

No, the internet (which autistics worked on-see Bram Cohen and bittorent.) and its' ability to connect all the disenfranchised of society allows that. They aren't isolated and forced to have "sense beaten into them" they can network without physical limitations and use that to an advantage ("hey I'm not the only person like that, you can's bullshit and claim I'm the only one who is").

From WrongPlanet.net

WrongPlanet.net: How has Asperger's helped you with your programming?

Bram Cohen: Oh, heh, I dunno. I tend to get obsessed with technical problems, and have a very long attention span, which are obviously good traits for being a programmer, and seem like Asperger's traits, but [because of] not having an almost-identical-except-no-asperger's version of myself, it's hard to compare.

WP: That's been true for me as well. I tend to have trouble focusing on anything that I'm not interested in. Do you have this problem?

BC: Yes, I'm extremely bad at working on things which seem pointless (uninteresting I can mostly deal with). It's caused problems for me at some workplaces, particularly when the whole job was to maintain a garbage legacy codebase.

WP: A lot of us would agree with you on that. Do you have anything else you'd like to add [about Asperger’s Syndrome in general]?

BC: About Asperger's in general, I'd like to comment that I never really identified as having it until I started to learn some basic social signaling and realized just how bad my problems had been.

It's very frustrating now, because I can remember events in my life well enough to be able to realize now what people were thinking at the time, even though I had no idea what was going on back then, but of course there's no way of going back and explaining it to myself.

It appears he diagnosed himself. Gets obsessed with technical problems, has a long attentionspan therefore "seems like Aspergers". Bad at work at things that seem pointless therefore "seems like Aspergers". And then of course "About Asperger's in general, I'd like to comment that I never really identified as having it until I started to learn some basic social signaling and realized just how bad my problems had been.". Uhuh, he's got Aspergers alright.[/quote]

[Darth Wong]

Are people with autism trapped in their own world? Or are the rest of us just trapped in ours?

They are trapped in their own world. The whole purpose of language is to communicate with others, so you need to be able to do it in such a manner that others will find it intelligible. If someone has a perfectly workable language that only makes sense to him, that is not just "different" than normal communication skills; it is dysfunctional.

[Keevan_Colton]

Are people with autism trapped in their own world? Or are the rest of us just trapped in ours?

They are trapped in their own world. The whole purpose of language is to communicate with others, so you need to be able to do it in such a manner that others will find it intelligible. If someone has a perfectly workable language that only makes sense to him, that is not just "different" than normal communication skills; it is dysfunctional.

And yet here we piss away millions every year making programs for the gaelic comunity...all of whom can speak english and who number around the 10,000 mark, which is roughly one towns worth in the entire country...all because apparently having more and different languages is a good thing. Actually, it's been argued seriously on this board by some folk that we should work to "save" languages that are dying out rather than trying to work towards common communication.

[Knife]

Indeed, these 'cultures' for deaf or now autism, can only exsist in a world where people who 'don't understand them or want to change them' make their world easy enough for them to exsist to bitch about it.

No, the internet (which autistics worked on-see Bram Cohen and bittorent.) and its' ability to connect all the disenfranchised of society allows that. They aren't isolated and forced to have "sense beaten into them" they can network without physical limitations and use that to an advantage ("hey I'm not the only person like that, you can's bullshit and claim I'm the only one who is").

Wasn't refering to the internet, rather civilization in general, but yeah I guess you can lump in the high level luxuries too.

[Warsie]

[quote="[R_H]"And then of course "About Asperger's in general, I'd like to comment that I never really identified as having it until I started to learn some basic social signaling and realized just how bad my problems had been.". Uhuh, he's got Aspergers alright.[/quote]

Doesn't the last post kind've support him?

Also haha I got the Transhumanism avatar you had

Wasn't refering to the internet, rather civilization in general, but yeah I guess you can lump in the high level luxuries too.

That wasn't necessarily what I was referring to, but okay.

If someone has a perfectly workable language that only makes sense to him, that is not just "different" than normal communication skills; it is dysfunctional.

How are they trapped in their own world if they can use vocalization devices and type, allowing other people to get their information.

all because apparently having more and different languages is a good thing.

isn't that actually to 'preserve their cultural heritage' as the nationalists were getting afraid of losing their culture?

[Darth Wong]

If someone has a perfectly workable language that only makes sense to him, that is not just "different" than normal communication skills; it is dysfunctional.

How are they trapped in their own world if they can use vocalization devices and type, allowing other people to get their information.

There is a difference between a workaround and a solution.

[Warsie]

There is a difference between a workaround and a solution.

What is the vocalization device then? A workaround, or a solution?

[Mr Bean]

There is a difference between a workaround and a solution.

What is the vocalization device then? A workaround, or a solution?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's pretty damn obvious it's a workaround.

Why can't you communicate to begin with? Because you have a neurological disorder, not because you have damaged vocal cords or the like, but because your brain itself is mis-processing or not even bothering to process the language.

That's also why the Youtube video is both amusing and sad. Excuse me, but a language is only a language if you can communicate with it. And not to yourself but to other sentient beings. Until you can teach it to someone else and they can communicate back and forth with it, it's not a language, it's meaningless sounds and gestures. Even if they hold deep meanings to you.


On another issue
What "Rights" do autistic people have/want to have? Perhaps medical rights to be sure insurance covers the needed devices and possible treatments to help overcome their condition or a workaround for it to be sure, but aside from that what else?

Do you want ramps? The ability to take a parrot into bars? I can understand the "rights" for the blind, but Autism is a condition where you have issues with social communication, which can possibly be overcome with technology, what else do or need or want? Special Parking, a tax rebate, what?

What rights do Autistics demand/need?

[Warsie]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's pretty damn obvious it's a workaround.

I'd say it's the same way. The problem is solved either way.

Why can't you communicate to begin with? Because you have a neurological disorder, not because you have damaged vocal cords or the like, but because your brain itself is mis-processing or not even bothering to process the language.

I can (and do)communicate using Standard American English, actually. And actually, when I would have issues with communicating it's because I stutter sometimes and have to prepare in advance of speak louder.

That's also why the Youtube video is both amusing and sad. Excuse me, but a language is only a language if you can communicate with it. And not to yourself but to other sentient beings. Until you can teach it to someone else and they can communicate back and forth with it, it's not a language, it's meaningless sounds and gestures. Even if they hold deep meanings to you.

As I stated before, they can communicate to other autistics using that same language. Besides, what about "nonverbal communication" or "body language". I don't react to or understand that often, but does that make it 'meaningless'? No, because the mainstream/majority of society is okay with screwing over those who do not think their way (See body language and posturing and all that social shit, or "sarcasm", or connotations of words or the like) they want YOU to learn their body languages and the like. Double-standard much?

On another issue
What "Rights" do autistic people have/want to have? Perhaps medical rights to be sure insurance covers the needed devices and possible treatments to help overcome their condition or a workaround for it to be sure, but aside from that what else?

"accepting autism as a variation in functioning rather than a mental disorder to be cured. The ARM advocate a greater tolerance of autistic behaviors, teaching autistic individuals skills that allow them to better cope with the non-autistic world rather than forcing them behave like their neurotypical peers, and objects to treatment goals like extinguishing harmless stimming, forcing eye contact and breaking routines."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_rights_movement

but Autism is a condition where you have issues with social communication, which can possibly be overcome with technology, what else do or need or want? Special Parking, a tax rebate, what?

What rights do Autistics demand/need?

"To be treated as humans". See the last 2 videos and the message conveyed there