"The Language of Autism" and "Being an Unpers

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Post by Warsie »

Mr Bean wrote:Just to repeat a point Warsie has at this point has claimed not to be Autistic, while claiming to be Autistic in the same post and even better, has gotten offended at being told he was claiming to Autistic, and ALSO getting angry and being told he's not Autistic.

That's not even to go into the fact he buys into stereotypes about Gays and has some serious misconceptions about the Scientific method.

Warsie we await your response with anticipation.
I said I never mentioned whether I was autistic or not, when he accused me of being a liar. HE brought the subject up, accusing me of lying when I did not lie. But when he brought it up, I confirmed yes I am autistic.

sorry for the confusion.
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Post by Mr Bean »

Warsie wrote:
I said I never mentioned whether I was autistic or not, when he accused me of being a liar. HE brought the subject up, accusing me of lying when I did not lie. But when he brought it up, I confirmed yes I am autistic.

sorry for the confusion.
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Post by Warsie »

Mr Bean wrote: A Self-Diagnosed Autistic?
I said I got this from a psychologist. Aspergers specifically
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Post by Edi »

Warsie wrote:
Mr Bean wrote: A Self-Diagnosed Autistic?
I said I got this from a psychologist. Aspergers specifically
I can accept that. However, your behavior in this thread has been fucking disgraceful and you can easily be called a liar based on what you said. You went on for two pages about autism, making very implicit references that you have symptoms of an autistic condition of some sort and then posting that laundry list of demands. Then you have the gall to say that you never claimed to be autistic at all and right after that you turn around and say that you are in fact autistic.

The only interpretation that a normal person can draw from that is that either you are a liar or an asshole. OR then you really need to get yourself some more therapy to learn basic fucking communication skills. It says a lot that we have three people in this thread besides yourself who have various degrees of some autistic condition (Nitram, Rogue 9 and DaveJB) who have all taken the side against you. They know what it's like to not be fully functional, so you don't have anything that works against them on this score except appeals to your own say-so. Not gonna work.

Grow a fucking spine instead of whining.
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Post by Warsie »

Edi wrote: I can accept that. However, your behavior in this thread has been fucking disgraceful
because how I phrased it, right?
You went on for two pages about autism, making very implicit references that you have symptoms of an autistic condition of some sort and then posting that laundry list of demands.
Like what? I didn't saw 'we'; I said 'them', etc. People have those assumptions I guess.
It says a lot that we have three people in this thread besides yourself who have various degrees of some autistic condition (Nitram, Rogue 9 and DaveJB) who have all taken the side against you.
I've seen how people would jump on people on this board. And I seriously wonder why they jumped on me. (not asking for flames here, though I'll probably get them anyway)
Grow a fucking spine instead of whining.
where have I not grown "a fucking spine". And where have I whined? I never phrased it as 'attention whoring' or anything like that.
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Post by Warsie »

And I never "demanded" anything, contrary to what other people here said.
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Post by SirNitram »

Warsie wrote:
SirNitram wrote:snip.
Since you don't believe me, I can't make you believe me. But you ARE wrong, and I do NOT lie. so don't accuse me of that. As the flaming has ended or slowed down, I will withdraw. You win. And you misinterpreted all my shit.
Everyone lies, kid. I don't care how loudly you protest it, but everyone lies about something.

You can whine about 'misinterperating' or whatever crap you care to throw up onto the screen that makes you feel better. It effects me precisely the same way your farts effect the fusion rate within our stellar primary. Zero. Zilch.

So you run along, whining about flames. You run now, and you remember you got treated like everyone else. And that's what you couldn't stand.
Oh, where have I said I was autistic before you mentioned whether I was?
Quoted you, boy. You knew that, so you snipped it. Isn't USENET though, so that trick doesn't work.
Oh well, screw it. I'm withdrawing from this battle.
Run faster. The next time you start throwing up nonsense about how you should be coddled, remember you have just demanded not the rights of a human being.. You have demanded those plus more. You have an inherent need to be mollycoddled and pampered, and you couldn't function without it.

What a shame. The world will devour you alive.
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Post by Warsie »

SirNitram wrote: Everyone lies, kid. I don't care how loudly you protest it, but everyone lies about something.
I was referring to you accusing me of not being autistic and lying about it, or being 'self-diagnosed'
You can whine about 'misinterperating' or whatever crap you care to throw up onto the screen that makes you feel better. It effects me precisely the same way your farts effect the fusion rate within our stellar primary. Zero. Zilch.
then why did you jump me like that. And don't say 'stupidity'. Something I said must have gotten to you. I apologize for that.
Quoted you, boy. You knew that, so you snipped it. Isn't USENET though, so that trick doesn't work.
I stated that I never brought up the subject over whether I was autistic or not. You attacked me and accused me of lying about being autistic and being 'self-diagnosed'. I responded by mentioning I NEVER brought up the subject as to whether I was autistic or not. Then I admitted that yes, I WAS autistic.
Run faster. The next time you start throwing up nonsense about how you should be coddled, remember you have just demanded not the rights of a human being.. You have demanded those plus more. You have an inherent need to be mollycoddled and pampered, and you couldn't function without it.
I never stated that this is what I demanded or wanted, did I? Will you stop putting words into my mouth?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

my at work:

sorry It just wasn't organized right, I had to stop, and get things in order before I could get back to work. (fortunatly my current boss understands this all too well.)

<translation for those who don't understand, yes, I can't function once "chaos/clutter" reaches a certain point, and can get really bent about how something is organized, as I will attempt to organize things into detail that makes sense to ME, not always to other people, and while I'm organizing I can be very abrubt, and confrontational (sometimes violent)

Colin why do you always have to go on, and on, why can't you just come out with it.
<translation, I try to communicate, I don't know if I am or not, and sometimes my brain makes leaps that just seem like nonsense to others. >

these are things I can't control. and yes, everybody lies, some better than others, my mother's family is full of alcoholics and drug addicts who love to use words as weapons like benegesserit in dune. Why do you think I despise bad liars, and try so hard not to lie myself?
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Post by DaveJB »

I've seen how people would jump on people on this board. And I seriously wonder why they jumped on me. (not asking for flames here, though I'll probably get them anyway)
While I can't speak for anyone else, here are the statements which I find the most contentious:
the whole 'negative' condition is society's bias towards those who think differently

...

Society shunns them, makes fun of them, etc. Why should they surrender to a entity that hates them?

...

what gives you the right to determine what is a 'negative' condition or not?
You seem to be implying that autistics are the victims of a cruel society, scared by what they don't understand, and that it's time to make a stand for our right to be socially inept. In reality, that's exactly what we DON'T need to do.

I can speak from personal experience on this, because my own damn mother told me to sit back, play the victim and reap disability benefits from the taxpayer (I'm not kidding; she got me to spend my 16th birthday filling out all the claims forms so I could get my first payment the following Thursday) instead of going out into the real world, getting a job alongside my A-Level studies and learning valuable work ethics and social skills.

Unfortunately I was naive enough to believe that this was the right thing to do, and so the end result was that I ended up going to university a social cripple with no employment record. So, when my original set of housemates told me to go fuck myself at the end of our first year - which, in retrospect, they had every right to do - and my mother tried assuring me that I hadn't done anything wrong and that the rest of the world was to fault, that was when I finally realized that I had to shed the whole victim complex if I was going to get anywhere. It's the same case with most autistics - you have to try and make things work for yourself, otherwise you will simply die when you try and go out into the real world.
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Post by Warsie »

DaveJB wrote: While I can't speak for anyone else, here are the statements which I find the most contentious:
k
You seem to be implying that autistics are the victims of a cruel society, scared by what they don't understand, and that it's time to make a stand for our right to be socially inept. In reality, that's exactly what we DON'T need to do.
I've researched the social controls, caste-systems, and the like. And still am. I'm not ignorant of society's rules and beliefs, I've simply looked and analyzed them and believe that they are a piece of shit. I'm sure some others think similarly and don't care. Back then I was heavily inept, still I am in some cases but because people bitched about it; I researched it. I still had the same opinions, but I did research society.
I can speak from personal experience on this, because my own damn mother told me to sit back, play the victim and reap disability benefits from the taxpayer (I'm not kidding; she got me to spend my 16th birthday filling out all the claims forms so I could get my first payment the following Thursday) instead of going out into the real world, getting a job alongside my A-Level studies and learning valuable work ethics and social skills.

Unfortunately I was naive enough to believe that this was the right thing to do, and so the end result was that I ended up going to university a social cripple with no employment record. So, when my original set of housemates told me to go fuck myself at the end of our first year - which, in retrospect, they had every right to do - and my mother tried assuring me that I hadn't done anything wrong and that the rest of the world was to fault, that was when I finally realized that I had to shed the whole victim complex if I was going to get anywhere. It's the same case with most autistics - you have to try and make things work for yourself, otherwise you will simply die when you try and go out into the real world.
I am working on looking into society's controls, ideas, standards (and has). I am not necessarily ignorant of them, I see them and have researched much of this. I simply came to a different conclusion that they are complete and utter shit (to me).

My mother had a different thing, she complained to me that "I lack common sense", issues and arguments with her, her bitching about how I would get up or how I would sit down, complaining about the words I use-even if they do fit due to connotations. Her saying "you better act this way, or do things this certain way" claiming that there is not various ways to get the job done when I believed this. Maybe that is my experience and others had different experiences.

BTW I'm a Senior in HS, 17 and graduate in a few months. I'm trying to get single-room dorms.
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Post by Warsie »

DaveJB wrote:You seem to be implying that autistics are the victims of a cruel society, scared by what they don't understand
I remember being fucked with, called 'stupid' among other things. I also remember being fucked with by some people Sophmore-Senior year (I'm a senior). So I have had the experience of seeing that because I had a different answer to a problem. You may have had a different history than me.
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Post by Stark »

I can sort-of see where people like that are coming from: most autistic people aren't like Nitram or I, and are basically trapped in their own bizarre little world. They aren't able to hack in some software to get a basic-but-spotty level of function - they're extremely disabled. When I was younger I met many autistic people like this, who lacked even the basic communication skills to bootstrap into society.

However, the attitude that it's not a disability are retarded. Get this: I'm a pretty smart guy, but I'm really socially retarded. It look me a decade to improvise what most people can do normally, and I've still got serious blindspots and communication problems that make it extremely difficult to form close relationships with people. This isn't 'the same but different', it's broken, and most autistic people aren't able to achieve this level of function.

For me, some kind of 'autistic society' is a fucking nightmare. I want to deal with my life, not pretend it's 'just the same'. I can really empathise with Bear's communication problems, and I'm just glad that I've always been surrounded by people who give enough of a shit to deal with it.
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Post by SirNitram »

Warsie wrote:
SirNitram wrote: Everyone lies, kid. I don't care how loudly you protest it, but everyone lies about something.
I was referring to you accusing me of not being autistic and lying about it, or being 'self-diagnosed'
Then you've never been out in the real world, or are such a minor case you could be missed until your late twenties. Only someone with a massive entitlement complex can argue as you have.
You can whine about 'misinterperating' or whatever crap you care to throw up onto the screen that makes you feel better. It effects me precisely the same way your farts effect the fusion rate within our stellar primary. Zero. Zilch.
then why did you jump me like that. And don't say 'stupidity'. Something I said must have gotten to you. I apologize for that.
'Gotten to me'. Rich. You're just another loser who hides behind the disability and grows an entitlement complex. You didn't 'get to me' anymore than any of the other idiots who parade through here with the same song and dance, and who run away the same way.

So yes. The reason is 'Stupidity'. Deal.
Quoted you, boy. You knew that, so you snipped it. Isn't USENET though, so that trick doesn't work.
I stated that I never brought up the subject over whether I was autistic or not. You attacked me and accused me of lying about being autistic and being 'self-diagnosed'. I responded by mentioning I NEVER brought up the subject as to whether I was autistic or not. Then I admitted that yes, I WAS autistic.
You couldn't keep your claims straight. A natural tendency of the terminally stupid, or the fraud. That you got caught is your problem, not mine.
Run faster. The next time you start throwing up nonsense about how you should be coddled, remember you have just demanded not the rights of a human being.. You have demanded those plus more. You have an inherent need to be mollycoddled and pampered, and you couldn't function without it.
I never stated that this is what I demanded or wanted, did I? Will you stop putting words into my mouth?
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm reading your posts and happily pointing out what you wrote. Of course, if you're too mollycoddled, pampered, and sheltered to communicate with your species...

That'd be your problem.
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Post by SirNitram »

Stark wrote:For me, some kind of 'autistic society' is a fucking nightmare. I want to deal with my life, not pretend it's 'just the same'. I can really empathise with Bear's communication problems, and I'm just glad that I've always been surrounded by people who give enough of a shit to deal with it.
I've interacted with them, and most, not made of Aspies with entitlement and superiority complexs, are good folks. They support, and damn do some of us need it. It's also the only communication some of us can get, and I'm not condemning anyone to the solitude of crowds if they can find someone to talk to.

The problem are these people like Warsie, and whoever writes the crap he's spewed. Trivializes the disability and the trouble and makes demands.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

thanks stark and nit.

yeah, part of the communication gap, it's telling, it's like virgins posting in ARSE telling. It's like the quote in Kendal's sig telling. If you experience the frustration, and are somewhat functional/high functional others who are know. Oh and looking at my sibs/cousins that vasectomy is looking like a very good idea if I ever did get into a relationship that was in any way lasting.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Also since I'm also Bi-polar and aspergers it makes for an interesting combination, toss in a fairly mild dissociation/schitz reality break and I can say something completly out there, and believe every word of it, because that's how I percieved it. And folks ask why I haven't moved out of my job in Yosemite. It keeps me somewhat sane, and I can't survive in the "Real World"....
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Post by Warsie »

SirNitram wrote: Only someone with a massive entitlement complex can argue as you have.
PLEEEASE.

I never stated what I wanted, and you keep assuming that.
'Gotten to me'. Rich. You're just another loser who hides behind the disability and grows an entitlement complex. You didn't 'get to me' anymore than any of the other idiots who parade through here with the same song and dance, and who run away the same way.

So yes. The reason is 'Stupidity'. Deal.
You have no proof to speculate that I have an "entitlement complex". No matter how you try, I never suggested that I needed any of this in my past arguments.
You couldn't keep your claims straight. A natural tendency of the terminally stupid, or the fraud. That you got caught is your problem, not mine.
I did. You didn't intrepret it right. You never showed proof that I said I was autistic, when you started attacking me.
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm reading your posts and happily pointing out what you wrote. Of course, if you're too mollycoddled, pampered, and sheltered to communicate with your species...

That'd be your problem.
In care you haven't noticed....I never applied any of this to myself.
Trivializes the disability and the trouble and makes demands.
I never made DEMANDS.[/i]
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Post by SirNitram »

Warsie wrote:
SirNitram wrote: Only someone with a massive entitlement complex can argue as you have.
PLEEEASE.

I never stated what I wanted, and you keep assuming that.
No, deduced. You state these are what Spectrum's need or desire, pretending to speak for the many(As you claimed I did). Then you, when cornered, admit you're a spectrum.

So yes. You did. Keep it straight, if you can.
'Gotten to me'. Rich. You're just another loser who hides behind the disability and grows an entitlement complex. You didn't 'get to me' anymore than any of the other idiots who parade through here with the same song and dance, and who run away the same way.

So yes. The reason is 'Stupidity'. Deal.
You have no proof to speculate that I have an "entitlement complex". No matter how you try, I never suggested that I needed any of this in my past arguments.
Except you self identified as on the Spectrum and said these should be given to Spectrums. Too bad, so sad, you're busted. Again.
You couldn't keep your claims straight. A natural tendency of the terminally stupid, or the fraud. That you got caught is your problem, not mine.
I did. You didn't intrepret it right. You never showed proof that I said I was autistic, when you started attacking me.
I don't care. And by the way, stop whining about being attacked. Re-read the rules.

You can't keep your goddamn stories straight, kid, first sign that you're a peice of junk. Hell, you even declared it was over.. But here you are.
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm reading your posts and happily pointing out what you wrote. Of course, if you're too mollycoddled, pampered, and sheltered to communicate with your species...

That'd be your problem.
In care you haven't noticed....I never applied any of this to myself.
Yada yada yada. You self-identified after talking about what Spectrums need. I don't care if you spelled it out precisely.
Trivializes the disability and the trouble and makes demands.
I never made DEMANDS.
Just like you never declared you were done with this?
Oh well, screw it. I'm withdrawing from this battle.
Play the tiny violin elsewhere, kid. Maybe when you've had a few years hard shocks of reality you'll be able to talk to the grownups.
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Post by Turin »

Minor tangent: SirNitram & Stark, would you mind if I asked you a question about your particular conditions?

Obviously both of you are quite skilled at written communication, to the point where if neither of you had mentioned that you had autism-spectrum disorders that I doubt anyone could tell. My question is this: do you find it easier to communicate in written formats than verbal/face-to-face formats? I've known a few people in my personal life with autism-spectrum disorders but most of had severe difficulties in communicating verbally (some were mentally retarded in addition, which clearly neither of you are). Is better-written-than-verbal communication a fairly universal feature of autism-spectrum disorders?

I suppose the reason I'm asking about this is because I'm currently reading The Man Who Tasted Shapes, which is a book about synethesia (a completely unrelated disorder). The interesting point the author raises was the difficulty he faced when approaching a way of diagnosing synethesia as a "subjective" experience. Because testing for mental retardation is essentially a "social" process, is it possible that some autistics whom we label as severely retarded are actually living in some kind of insulated world where their mind works normally but they cannot communicate it?
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Post by Stark »

It depends. In situations I can handle (casually or professionally) I'm fine. Outside of that comfort zone, or with groups I have to communicate with directly (ie, not public speaking, which is easy) it's much harder to manage. In a written context it's easy, but the same issues apply but the lack of immediacy makes it easier to just proofread.
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Post by SirNitram »

Turin wrote:Minor tangent: SirNitram & Stark, would you mind if I asked you a question about your particular conditions?

Obviously both of you are quite skilled at written communication, to the point where if neither of you had mentioned that you had autism-spectrum disorders that I doubt anyone could tell. My question is this: do you find it easier to communicate in written formats than verbal/face-to-face formats?
For myself, I had to literally train myself rigorously to pick up on what you'd not even notice: The little cues of emotions in the face, body language, etc. That isn't built into me. I have incredible phone anxiety. So yes, written word is much easier for me. Individual results may vary.
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Post by SilverWingedSeraph »

Hrm. I have the same problems. I always just thought it was shy, or because I was just an unsociable person in general. Perhaps that's still the case with me. Whatever it is, I won't go around claiming to have Aspergers unless I get a diagnosis from someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about. I hate those self-diagnosing motherfuckers who just say "Oh yeah, I have aspergers. No, I wasn't diagnosed, I just know it."

They annoy the hell out of me.
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Post by LadyTevar »

SirNitram wrote: I have incredible phone anxiety.
Translation: Phone rings, Nitram picks it up and RUNS IT TO ME so I can be the one who answers it. If I'm not in a position to talk (ie, on the toilet *glares at Nit*), he's at a loss what to do, and I have to yell at him to get him to simply turn the phone on and say hello.
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Post by SirNitram »

LadyTevar wrote:
SirNitram wrote: I have incredible phone anxiety.
Translation: Phone rings, Nitram picks it up and RUNS IT TO ME so I can be the one who answers it. If I'm not in a position to talk (ie, on the toilet *glares at Nit*), he's at a loss what to do, and I have to yell at him to get him to simply turn the phone on and say hello.
I said incredible. It means you wouldn't believe it unless you saw it with your own eyes. This is accurate.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
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