The Wolf 359 ships

[RayCav of ASVS]

General discussion on the Wolf 359 ships.

Someone said that they include mostly experimental freaks and museum ships. He points out to various "transwarp" projects and even a Constitution.

The model of a Connie found at W359 is the same exact model of the destroyed Enterprise used in ST III. Personally, I want to kick the balls of the idoit who thought it would be funny or wise to put it in there.

Someone said it was a museum ship, possibly the Enterprise-A. I however, disagree. If the Enterprise-A is converted in a manner similar to, say, the USS Nautilus (a vessel I have actually been on as a museum ship), then it will be next to impossible to refit her for serive, let alone on such short notice. Much of the structure would have been converted to best suit any visitors, equipment would have been modified or removed to accomodate visitors, and almost certainly the warp core would have been removed, and most likely scrapped or possibly used in another vessel. The Nautilus would be a perfect anology, since its nuke plant had been removed and disposed of for safety reasons, and surely the same would apply to a warp plant as well. To put it short, it's simply impossible.

As to how a Connie ended up there, well - that's why I want to kick the balls of the idoit who put it there. I think the best theory is that it was one of the last ships of that line to be decommissioned, and it was still in the mothball fleet, possibly only months or even days away from pernament disposal. This still could be the Enterprise-A, still awaiting conversion to a museum ship, but I hate to think of a ST ship I actually like being lost! As to "Relics," since Picard states that the "only Constitution left" is in a museum, we'll just have to assume he's mistaken. Considering that this is Picard we are talking about, that's an easy concession to accept

As to the Excelsior study models, there is reason to both believe that they were experimental models in the Transwarp project pulled from mothballs, or we can except the fact that they are represenitives of full production starships, that may even still be in service. I believe one can easily believe both, and there is no evidence that I am aware of to support only one of these theories. I suppose it depends on personal interpretation.

As for the other models, I suppose its also interprable. I personally am inclined to believe that at least the New Orleans represents a full production model.

[Stravo]

Of course, there's always the VERY unpopular answer that TNG's budget just didn;t allow for flotilla's of "real" starships. lame I know but I can honestly say that the other ideas...museum ships, traning vessls, etc MAKE NO SENSE to me

[Cpt_Frank]

Hmm, they still use the Reliants (Miranda-class IIRC) which, like the Cons, are roughly 100 years old, so why shouldn't the Cons still be in service?
Of course, it's idiotic to send your most vintage ships to a major engagement, but hey, it's Starfleet.

As to "Relics," since Picard states that the "only Constitution left" is in a museum, we'll just have to assume he's mistaken.

Perhaps he was talking about a non-refit constitution class?

[Admiral_K]

Anyone have a pic of the scene you are reffering to?

[Oberleutnant]

For detailed overview see: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359.htm

Constitution: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... 9_2_5a.jpg

[Doomriser]

There are few or no Connies in TNG because they are older than the Mirandas (1701 vs 1864 Ent/Reliant) and also because "there's only a dozen in the fleet" for Connies whereas Starfleet clearly continued to produce new Mirandas. (Mirandas are cheaper to produce)

[RayCav of ASVS]

For detailed overview see: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359.htm

Constitution: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/artic ... 9_2_5a.jpg

Thanks, those were the sites I was referring to

[consequences]

hey, maybe the borg altered the wreckage to mess with our heads.

[Cpt_Frank]

btw, while rewatching the scene, I nocticed there is something very strange about the wreckage:
they show the E-D fly by, then they fade out, and then they show the exact same scene again, but this time the wreckage is gone!
Check it out.

[Isolder74]

btw, while rewatching the scene, I nocticed there is something very strange about the wreckage:
they show the E-D fly by, then they fade out, and then they show the exact same scene again, but this time the wreckage is gone!
Check it out.

just like they pass Mars and it is gone too. Opps! lost a planet.

[Master of Ossus]

just like they pass Mars and it is gone too. Opps! lost a planet.

How embarrassing. How embarrassing...

[Isolder74]

just like they pass Mars and it is gone too. Opps! lost a planet.

How embarrassing. How embarrassing...

ya, didn't lister do that

[Patrick Degan]

Recall the episode "Booby Trap" from season 3 of TNG. During the story, Geordi uses the holodeck to recreate the Galaxy-class design development laboratory at Utopia Planetia to examine the design of the Enterprise's warp system from first principles. Now, you have to look closely, but in one scene in the holo design lab, Geordi is at a workstation where a desktop starship model can be seen and it is very clearly a Constitution-type vessel depicted, but with two design differences: the warp nacelles are mounted on the pylons like the Constellation-class ships, and the saucer-section has several large sensor arrays on the sides of the hull where the viewports were formerly located. It is possible that the basic design pattern for the Constitution was continued into the 24th century albeit in modified form. Not wholly unprecedented; in World War II, the U.S. Navy fielded three submarine classes which conformed to the same general design pattern but had enough differences to constitute seperate classes (the Balao/Gato/Tench boats).

The Con in the wreck field at Wolf 359 might have been one of those.

[Isolder74]

Recall the episode "Booby Trap" from season 3 of TNG. During the story, Geordi uses the holodeck to recreate the Galaxy-class design development laboratory at Utopia Planetia to examine the design of the Enterprise's warp system from first principles. Now, you have to look closely, but in one scene in the holo design lab, Geordi is at a workstation where a desktop starship model can be seen and it is very clearly a Constitution-type vessel depicted, but with two design differences: the warp nacelles are mounted on the pylons like the Constellation-class ships, and the saucer-section has several large sensor arrays on the sides of the hull where the viewports were formerly located. It is possible that the basic design pattern for the Constitution was continued into the 24th century albeit in modified form. Not wholly unprecedented; in World War II, the U.S. Navy fielded three submarine classes which conformed to the same general design pattern but had enough differences to constitute seperate classes (the Balao/Gato/Tench boats).

The Con in the wreck field at Wolf 359 might have been one of those.

Even so, thats a mighty old ship to be sending into battle. And the model may have been depicting a Galactic Survey Cruiser a Con with larger science facilities

[Cpt_Frank]

Here's a rational explanation:
It was the restless ghost of the E-nil, which comes to all battlefields where the Federation voluntarily allows its civilians to be slaugtered for nothing but Starfleet's glory, to collect the souls of the fallen ones and take them with it into the burning depths of hell.

[Darik Sdair]

Even so, thats a mighty old ship to be sending into battle. And the model may have been depicting a Galactic Survey Cruiser a Con with larger science facilities

Dunno about that... by the time TNG came out, Gene Roddenberry had gone pretty sour with the Franz Josef and the whole Star Fleet Universe in general, so I doubt it represents anything from their material.

[Isolder74]

Even so, thats a mighty old ship to be sending into battle. And the model may have been depicting a Galactic Survey Cruiser a Con with larger science facilities

Dunno about that... by the time TNG came out, Gene Roddenberry had gone pretty sour with the Franz Josef and the whole Star Fleet Universe in general, so I doubt it represents anything from their material.

Perhaps, but this would not justify the constitution class as a operational unit during Wolf 359. and true Star Fleet Battles is not cannon

[Typhonis 1]

This is just sad Think about it in TNG they are still using Mirandas and Excellsiors for combat purposes sure the ships are up gunned but they may have structurals flaws and weaknessess from years of deep space work .Why use outdated ships to fight with if as the Trekkies claim Star Fleet is big?

[Isolder74]

This is just sad Think about it in TNG they are still using Mirandas and Excellsiors for combat purposes sure the ships are up gunned but they may have structurals flaws and weaknessess from years of deep space work .Why use outdated ships to fight with if as the Trekkies claim Star Fleet is big?

exactally, and how come many on the ships used to defend Earth were not frontline ships. any good empire always has a home fleet at least as powerful as the expiditary squadrons. And using england as a exapmle their best ships are in the home squadron before placed into the units afield.