"The Language of Autism" and "Being an Unpers

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Stark
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Post by Stark »

SirNitram wrote:For myself, I had to literally train myself rigorously to pick up on what you'd not even notice: The little cues of emotions in the face, body language, etc. That isn't built into me. I have incredible phone anxiety. So yes, written word is much easier for me. Individual results may vary.
Yeah, it's situations where that stuff is really important that requires more effort and causes more anxiety. Among my friends (who don't care) and my co-workers (where it's easy to just 'be professional) it's fine, but the more people and the less sure I am about how I should be acting the worse the anxiety.

In situations where I don't have to respond to others (like public speaking or other performances) there's no problem. I like acting and karaoke etc - a script isn't difficult to understand.
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Post by Zablorg »

Warsie, your six rule wanking does not help. Have you actually ever witnessed the behaviour of an autistic on the lower end of the spectrum? If not, than you have no clue what you are talking about, and if so, just try visualizing the same behaviour in an employee. That really should be enough to convince you that unless kids like these get help fast, they aren't long for this world.
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Post by Edi »

Warsie wrote:
Edi wrote: I can accept that. However, your behavior in this thread has been fucking disgraceful
because how I phrased it, right?
Partly that, but also because you keep denying you said something, weaseling away from what you said and whining that people are misinterpreting you. If people consistently understand the things you say differently than what you intended, it is not a problem with them, it's a problem with you.
Warsie wrote:
Edi wrote:You went on for two pages about autism, making very implicit references that you have symptoms of an autistic condition of some sort and then posting that laundry list of demands.
Like what? I didn't saw 'we'; I said 'them', etc. People have those assumptions I guess.
Fuck you, you worthless piece of shit. Nitram already quoted that list of demands back at you. You may not have used the word 'we', but the implications were very, very strong in the context of your posts. If you cannot understand that, then fucking work more on your communication. Everyone else here seems to have drawn the same conclusions I did from your first page posts, so take your sniveling condescension and shove it up your arse, fucktard.
Warsie wrote:
Edi wrote:It says a lot that we have three people in this thread besides yourself who have various degrees of some autistic condition (Nitram, Rogue 9 and DaveJB) who have all taken the side against you.
I've seen how people would jump on people on this board. And I seriously wonder why they jumped on me. (not asking for flames here, though I'll probably get them anyway)
It's been explained to you how your slew of posts on the first page came across and the second and third page are even worse. If you cannot understand why that elicits the reaction you got, you should stop posting until you learn more about the thought processes and logic of normal people (or even high-functioning autistics like Nitram). You're out of your depth and instead of acknowledging that, you keep flailing away and telling people who do know what they are talking about that they are wrong because you say so. Hint: When that happens on these forums and you refuse to listen to explanations, people will stop helping you to swim and will actively push you under instead.
Warsie wrote:
Edi wrote:Grow a fucking spine instead of whining.
where have I not grown "a fucking spine". And where have I whined? I never phrased it as 'attention whoring' or anything like that.
You do not need to phrase it as attention whoring for it to be whining, moron. Your posts ooze an attitude of entitlement and a woe-is-me-none-of-you-understand emoting and a refusal to listen to the reasons why your arguments are rejected. Some of the people are more aggressive than others, but that does not alter the fact that you're putting up a wall of ignorance.
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Post by DaveJB »

Warsie wrote: I've researched the social controls, caste-systems, and the like. And still am. I'm not ignorant of society's rules and beliefs, I've simply looked and analyzed them and believe that they are a piece of shit. I'm sure some others think similarly and don't care. Back then I was heavily inept, still I am in some cases but because people bitched about it; I researched it. I still had the same opinions, but I did research society.
Yes, in a lot of ways, society does suck, doubly so for people like us. Unfortunately, society is what we have to live, work and function in, and we can't just throw our hands up and say "society's fault, we're blameless!" Obviously, there's some people out there who will be dickheads to you, autism or not, and people like that aren't worth the effort to deal with. That's no reason to lump everyone into that category, just as it's no reason for people to lump all autistic-spectrum people into one category.
I am working on looking into society's controls, ideas, standards (and has). I am not necessarily ignorant of them, I see them and have researched much of this. I simply came to a different conclusion that they are complete and utter shit (to me).
You really do seem to be overthinking this to me. I don't know if you're sitting back and performing some type of sterile, academic analysis of society (that's what it seems to be coming across as), but believe me, when it comes to understanding society there is no substitute for actually getting out there and experiencing the real world for yourself.
My mother had a different thing, she complained to me that "I lack common sense", issues and arguments with her, her bitching about how I would get up or how I would sit down, complaining about the words I use-even if they do fit due to connotations. Her saying "you better act this way, or do things this certain way" claiming that there is not various ways to get the job done when I believed this. Maybe that is my experience and others had different experiences.
While I obviously don't exactly know what experiences you've had, it seems like you've assumed that your mother was just being a bitch to you, when in fact she had good reason to point out that your behaviour was abnormal, and would cause you difficulty functioning in normal society.
BTW I'm a Senior in HS, 17 and graduate in a few months. I'm trying to get single-room dorms.
Ah, well, that explains a lot. All I'll say is be prepared for a major culture shock when you go to college, because you will likely find out for the first time how "normal" people live and go about their lives, and you will seem as weird to them as they will to you. It's something you're likely going to have to learn the hard way.
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Post by Turin »

Turin wrote:Obviously both of you are quite skilled at written communication, to the point where if neither of you had mentioned that you had autism-spectrum disorders that I doubt anyone could tell. My question is this: do you find it easier to communicate in written formats than verbal/face-to-face formats?
SirNitram wrote:For myself, I had to literally train myself rigorously to pick up on what you'd not even notice: The little cues of emotions in the face, body language, etc. That isn't built into me. I have incredible phone anxiety. So yes, written word is much easier for me. Individual results may vary.
Stark wrote:It depends. In situations I can handle (casually or professionally) I'm fine. Outside of that comfort zone, or with groups I have to communicate with directly (ie, not public speaking, which is easy) it's much harder to manage. In a written context it's easy, but the same issues apply but the lack of immediacy makes it easier to just proofread.
Thanks, guys. My closest previous contact with someone with autism was my ex's niece, who was mentally retarded but somewhat functional -- enough that she get a high school diploma, have a job, and live with some independence in a group-home arrangement. Being around her at family gatherings sometimes made me wonder how much of her mental retardation was "genuine" (for lack of a better word) and how much of it was an inability to communicate.
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Post by Warsie »

Edi wrote: Partly that, but also because you keep denying you said something, weaseling away from what you said and whining that people are misinterpreting you. If people consistently understand the things you say differently than what you intended, it is not a problem with them, it's a problem with you.
1. It is not MY problem. They keep ASSUMING that is what I sais.
Fuck you, you worthless piece of shit.
right back at you.
Nitram already quoted that list of demands back at you. You may not have used the word 'we', but the implications were very, very strong in the context of your posts.
1. IF you READ THE FUCKING THING. It's a List of suggestions. NOT demands. A list of things that makes something "Autie-friendly". NOT DEMANDS. Read the fucking list that I QUOTED and see the SOURCE that I mentioned.

2. "Implications" wow. I never DIRECTLY said this, therefore they should not have ASSUMED this even if I did make strong 'implications'. 'Implications' are not useful in that context. Assuming things makes an ASS out of U and ME.
If you cannot understand that, then fucking work more on your communication.
k. Everyone else here seems to have drawn the same conclusions I did from your first page posts, so take your sniveling condescension and shove it up your arse, fucktard.
* the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior
* a communication that indicates lack of respect by patronizing the recipient
* affability to your inferiors and temporary disregard for differences of position or rank; "the queen's condescension was intended to make us feel comfortable"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

:roll:

I didn't leave a lack of respect for anyone here. Nor did I claim to speak for everyone. I quoted a list of SUGGESTIONS, not DEMANDS that were made by autistic people THEMSELVES. THINGS THAT MADE A BUILDING 'autie-friendly'; which is stated on the source I listed. And if by 'condension' you mean the flamewar I'm withing my rights to shoot back, per the board rules. So go Goatse yourself, dipshit.
Warsie wrote:It's been explained to you how your slew of posts on the first page came across and the second and third page are even worse.
Okay. Because I did not phrase it "in the right way", people assumed things abour me, and It took all this time for me to straighten this out. And people think I am lying because of how THEY interpreted what I said, even when I did explain it so they would get what I was saying.

If you cannot understand why that elicits the reaction you got, you should stop posting until you learn more about the thought processes and logic of normal people (or even high-functioning autistics like Nitram).
k.
You're out of your depth and instead of acknowledging that, you keep flailing away and telling people who do know what they are talking about that they are wrong because you say so.
I know what I posted. I posted a list of suggestions, things that many autistic people WANT (but not DEMAND). I claimed that they had a language that is as valid as other accepted languages, and cited a source. I also did not deny that they needed 'help'. I simply pointed out things about the current society.
Hint: When that happens on these forums and you refuse to listen to explanations, people will stop helping you to swim and will actively push you under instead.
I did listen.
ou do not need to phrase it as attention whoring for it to be whining, moron. Your posts ooze an attitude of entitlement and a woe-is-me-none-of-you-understand emoting and a refusal to listen to the reasons why your arguments are rejected. Some of the people are more aggressive than others, but that does not alter the fact that you're putting up a wall of ignorance.
OMG I ASSUME SHIT AND MAKE SHIT UP TO CLAIM IM ENTITLED AND SHIT.

Wrong. You need to stop ASSUMING shit. Please.
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Post by SirNitram »

Boy, you have a disability that cripples communication. If trained neurodivergents and run-of-the-mill neurotypicals are all getting the same message, perhaps you should stop screaming like a little boy and realize you can't get the ideas across.

Then again, we've already covered your inability to remain consistant.
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Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

Warsie, you need to understand the view that ASD is a very serious issue. It's way more than an alternative culture: it's a serious developmental disorder. Yes, you are different. Yes, you may consider that part of who you are, but you and your family are still suffering from a disability, regardless. It's not a good thing, you have just gotten accustomed to it and accepted the condition. You are quite a bit better off than many people who have Autism.

We're talking about a condition wherein over 50% of the affected population never develops language capacity and can't understand receptive language, while the other half can be severely delayed. That's a significant disadvantage and produces a handicap in the real world, especially at the more extreme ends. There is some assistive technology that can mitigate the problem, along with ABA and PECS programmes, but therapy is necessary for many. It's not a good thing to be unable to communicate with the rest of the world.


Have you seen severe cases of Autism? I have. I teach them. They sit and rock back and forth and stim, unresponsive to external stimuli. Typically, people respond to living stimuli different from inanimate objects: many with autism don't. Have you have seen a mother try to talk to her child whose attention toward her is like he's looking at a wall? Where he finds more interest in spinning a wheel on a toy truck rather than responding to her facial expressions?

It's tragic. I think you are looking at the level you are at and assuming it's not as serious a problem as it really is because you are lucky enough not to be in that situation.



I don't get the list of suggestions either. Do you think we don't already have accommodations? Many institutions are already bound by law to provide accommodations for students and adults with Autism, LD, and ADHD (among other disabilities). For instance, all institutions that receive federal funding, via the Americans With Disabilities Act, must provide reasonable accommodations for employees and students. In secondary education, we're governed by IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act). You are all entitled to a free and appropriate public education in the lest restrictive environment, complete with necessary modifications/accommodations to help you learn.

We are moving toward disability-friendly environments, and have been since the early 90s.
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Post by Warsie »

^^^^
Okay, I might have misphrased things and done some things wrong. I apologize. Actually, I did get speech and occupational therapy when I was younger so I get your points about assistance and the like. I do most of my work by typing currently due to shit handwriting.

"I think you are looking at the level you are at and assuming it's not as serious a problem as it really is because you are lucky enough not to be in that situation."

That may be true as well. Sorry for any mistakes on my part :|
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Post by Warsie »

"Yes, you may consider that part of who you are, but you and your family are still suffering from a disability, regardless. It's not a good thing, you have just gotten accustomed to it and accepted the condition."

Okay...also isn't there some weirdness there, I've heard some say that Aspergers is classified as something different and as a different 'condition' or something like that, and wasn't the classification of what is 'autism' changed recently (past few years) by the APA?. I don't know if I ever became 'accustomed' to it, more of that I always had a reputation for being 'outside of the ordinary'; actually was diagnosed with this around 1 year ago during counseling for related (and non-related) issues.
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Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

"Yes, you may consider that part of who you are, but you and your family are still suffering from a disability, regardless. It's not a good thing, you have just gotten accustomed to it and accepted the condition."

Okay...also isn't there some weirdness there, I've heard some say that Aspergers is classified as something different and as a different 'condition' or something like that, and wasn't the classification of what is 'autism' changed recently (past few years) by the APA?. I don't know if I ever became 'accustomed' to it, more of that I always had a reputation for being 'outside of the ordinary'; actually was diagnosed with this around 1 year ago during counseling for related (and non-related) issues.
It might have changed. I am going off of prior knowledge when I was trained. Asperger Syndrome was classified as a point on the scale of the Autism Spectrum Disorder.


Aspergers typically isn't as severe as the more extreme full "autism." There are some similarities, such as the socio-emotional communication difficulties. I don't think that Aspergers students have language delay. I will have to check my texts again for that.

Autism is classified (or was) as a pervasive developmental disorder.

I am surprised that your diagnosis was so late. Usually, ASD cases are diagnosed earlier.

If you want a really interesting and accurate portrayal of what it's like for the more severe Autism cases, I would recommended reading "Turn around Bright Eyes." It's a good lay introduction to just how bad it can get, and it's a short, friendly read. This mother spent over ten grand trying to fix her son's language deficits so he would stop staring at the wall and screaming.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I was a late-diagnosis, they thought I just had ADHD and other socialization difficulties (one doc thought it was tourettes). In hindsight, it should have been obvious; Obsessive focusing on very narrow subjects, ridiculously advanced reading capacity and memory, number crunching, and a complete inability to grasp social nuance. Sometimes I'd cry because I couldn't understand why jokes were funny.

Its a disability, alright. I had to learn to stand up straight and look people in the eye when I talk to them, and to figure out tone of voice by trial and error. People say now I'm very personable and friendly, but it is largely an 'act', because I have no clue how my friends feel most of the time, I'm just very good at guessing. I don't know about Warsie, but I'd rather be normal than have my friends firing math problems at me like I'm a goddamn party trick. 'Oh, factor my social security number!' Bah, factor my nuts.

I wouldn't want my kids to be brought up in an 'autistic culture' anymore than I'd want them brought up in a 'missing your legs' culture.
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Post by Zablorg »

My case is extraordinarily mild, granting me no exessive hardships and the only real talent it has given me is a good talent for the piano.

That's now, however. In my youth, I honestly had no freaking clue how to do anything socially related, shutting everyone off, and over or under-reacting to stimulus. In fact around when I was ten I decided I'd had enough of it and I sat down and watched all the movies we had. I studied the hero's behaviour, his friends, how they would talk, move, reply, pretty much everything. At that point things started to turn around. For me, social interaction had to be learned manually. That's very much a disability.

I didn't need as much help as is usually the case. But the group that wants autistics to recieve no help at all makes me very very angry. Because had my case been any much more severe, I would still be friendless in a strange environment full of large aggressive people. And I'm not sure Warsie really understands the full implications of that.
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Post by Broomstick »

Cairber wrote:I know DAN! doctors will put autistic kids on extremely restrictive diets as a part of the "cure" for autism. I know it is gluten and casein free, but I really haven't looked to much into what they claim this will do.
I'm not sticking my toe into the fierce debates amongst those in the thread either on or claiming to be on the autistic spectrum, but I can speak as someone on a restricted diet myself (although not the one specified).

Undiagnosed food allergies and/or intolerances (there is a difference, but I won't get into that unless asked) can make a person very ill. Chronic illness in infants and toddlers can delay or interrupt developmental milestones. So, to my mind, it is conceivable that some children are affected by digestive problems to the point of having various problems ranging form stunted growth and failure to thrive to social issues (if you feel like shit all the time most people don't interact well with others) or even neurological problems. IF a child's symptoms clear up after a dietary change and they're "cured" I have to question whether or not they really had autism or a different disorder manifesting similar symptoms.

While a restricted diet of any sort can work wonders for certain physical problems, it does impose a significant cost on the person. So much of socializing centers around food, and when you're on a restricted diet going out to dinner with friends or lunch with your co-workers can become a minefield. Not to mention you can come off as pretty damn eccentric between your "picky" eating habits and your eternal hyper-vigilence and suspicion of food. I'm not autistic, yet I have endured decades of social burden from the necessity of carefully avoiding certain common foods in order to remain healthy. At my prior place of employment I had a co-worker with celiac disease (that requires a non-gluten diet meaning NO wheat, barley, or oats or any of their byproducts whatsoever). We used to sit around and commiserate about the social inconvenience of our respective disorders, which were considerable, and in many ways just as or more burdensome that the mechanics of avoiding forbidden foods or, while traveling, occasionally going hungry rather than taking a chance on unknown food.

I can not fathom imposing such burden on someone autistic, someone already at a social disadvantage, without a good, solid reason. Really, it's just horrible, it's slamming down another barrier between them and normality. Absolutely if an autistic child is displaying real symptoms of celiac or allergy they should be treated and if necessary placed on a diet eliminating problem foods but ONLY if truly necessary.

Really, I was appalled at the DAN! website - not only do they appear to be promoting restricted diets for ALL autistic spectrum children, even those displaying no symptoms, but they ALSO repeat that bullshit about vaccines causing autism and thimersol - thimersol was discontinued years ago.

That said, a gluten and/or casein free diet can be nutritious - my coworker was quite healthy and athletic. Due to a milk allergy my niece has avoided all dairy, including by-products such as casein, all her life and she, too, is a healthy, athletic adult now. But such diets require a better than average knowledge of nutrition and a lot of work. They are also inconvenient and more expensive than normal diets. The average parent will not enter into the situation with the knowledge to pull this off successfully and while most parents are willing to learn and make sacrifices on behalf of their children, families dealing with autistic children are already stressed and already have expenses normal families don't.

Bottom line, this strikes me as an unacceptable social and financial burden on autistic people and their families unless the child has been properly diagnosed with a disorder requiring such a diet. In which case the child has autism AND celiac or food allergy, in other words, the poor kid had TWO serious problems.
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Post by Broomstick »

SirNitram wrote:Yea. You did. You spouted off this crap about 'WE NEED TO BE TREATED LIKE HUMANS!'. We are, you worthless whiner. You want to be pampered. You posted a checklist for how you want catered too! you say stupid crap.
Well, there's Warsie's problem - he seems to think humans are nice. We're not. We're vicious, nasty, predatory, poo-flinging chimps with overdeveloped brains. The real world can be a nasty, cut-throat place. "Neurotypicals" can be absolute bastards to each other.

So... you want to be treated like everyone else, like humans? Are you sure about that, Warsie? Because to me it sounds more like you want to be sheltered somewhere where everyone plays by the rules. I'm sorry, but that's NOT the real world.

Edit: Forgot "poo-flinging" the first time around. I can't pass up the chance to say "poo-flinging chimps", it just wouldn't be right
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Post by Ryan Thunder »

I don't wasn't to seem like a bigot or anything, because I'm not one, but I have a pollable question for anybody here who is autistic; if there was a "cure" (and I use that term subjectively), for autism with no dangerous side effects, would you undergo it?
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Post by Broomstick »

Edi wrote:
Warsie wrote:
Edi wrote: I can accept that. However, your behavior in this thread has been fucking disgraceful
because how I phrased it, right?
Partly that, but also because you keep denying you said something, weaseling away from what you said and whining that people are misinterpreting you. If people consistently understand the things you say differently than what you intended, it is not a problem with them, it's a problem with you.
Warsie, I'd like to point out that even us "neurotypicals" occasionally fuck up while communicating. For future reference, a response that is more likely to defuse the situation is "I worded that badly and did not communicate what I wamted to communicate in the manner I intended." Autistic or not, you DO seem to have a communication problem here.
Warsie wrote:
Edi wrote:You went on for two pages about autism, making very implicit references that you have symptoms of an autistic condition of some sort and then posting that laundry list of demands.
Like what? I didn't saw 'we'; I said 'them', etc. People have those assumptions I guess.
Fuck you, you worthless piece of shit. Nitram already quoted that list of demands back at you. You may not have used the word 'we', but the implications were very, very strong in the context of your posts. If you cannot understand that, then fucking work more on your communication. Everyone else here seems to have drawn the same conclusions I did from your first page posts, so take your sniveling condescension and shove it up your arse, fucktard.
Here's a tip: when the autistics say you fucked up comminicating or on a social level you HAVE fucked up!
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Ryan Thunder wrote:I don't wasn't to seem like a bigot or anything, because I'm not one, but I have a pollable question for anybody here who is autistic; if there was a "cure" (and I use that term subjectively), for autism with no dangerous side effects, would you undergo it?
Now? Probably not. I've lived with it, and I am who I am because of how I overcame it. When I was eight? I'd have given myself the shot before the doctor could finish asking the question.

Here's another for the more severe auties: What's the deal with the restricted diets? Nobody ever brought that up to me as an option.
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Post by Zixinus »

It appears he diagnosed himself.
You have to get him in line then. The one they make for people that need to see a therapist either to confirm that or diagnose a more accurate inferiority complex or something like that. Not knowing social communications is not the same as not able to do proper social communications.
What rights do Autistics demand/need?
I will go on a limb herre, but autist need to be checked upon by therapists and may need special forms of education, ones that help them compensate for their social hinderences (or disabilities or whatever word you think is appropriate) and have people talk to them who understand very well their condition and try to help them compensate. That's what happened to me recently. I've got "private" lessons for which the school I go to has double the money they would receive normally for a student.
And I remember similar things said dealing with Eugenics, correct? Scientists said similar things about 'inferior genes' and claimed that it was linked to non-caucasian races. As a matter of fact, the 'nordic' idea came from Eugenics theories and research-perpetuated by scientists.
I don't think that was said by actual scientists in the field of genetics (and if we are talking about free WW2 era, there was no proper sequencing of DNA, which has its own obvious implications), but media white-supremacist propaganda made in an era when white-supremacism was normal.
And what gives you the right to determine what is a 'negative' condition or not?
I don't know about him specifically, but otherwise one can have the "right" to label certain condition as "negative" by looking at them closely and find that there is no correlation between "gifts" people have and what is clearly a neulogical disorder.

You can also argue that being deaf or blind also has its gifts.
I'm autistic myself, you dickhead so you should shut the fuck up about claiming to speak for everyone.
Self-diagnosed or do you have an actual paper to show for it? I have. Several. And I am prepeared to post them if necesary (of course they would be hungarian, but hey, I can still show them).
Since you don't believe me, I can't make you believe me. But you ARE wrong, and I do NOT lie. so don't accuse me of that. As the flaming has ended or slowed down, I will withdraw. You win. And you misinterpreted all my shit.
No, we did not. We all understood what your shit was and found it to be excatly what you call it: shit.

Looking back at what you said, it started to argue againts your claims. Then you go personal, so they go personal too. You got the result.
if there was a "cure" (and I use that term subjectively), for autism with no dangerous side effects, would you undergo it?
Being able to have a deeper understanding of a conversation and not feel like I am talking to a wall or having a tape recording going on to me? Yeah, sure. I don't feel that my "autism" (Asperger isn't autism, more like a condition/sydrome/whatever that has autistic effects, from what I've read anyway, CMIAW) has helped me become a smarter or better person, more like a more miserable one. Which I am pretty annoyed with.


Someone asked about how three people with autism-like conditions appear to have a clear, coherent writing skill that does not hint any communication problems. The problems isn't always language or words: its gesture. When it comes to personal communication, things like tone of voice, gestures, expression can mean incredibly more then you think. People may not even realise it, but stuff like that can count much more that phrasing or wording of what you say. On the internet forum, there is only words, which simplify matters.
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Post by Warsie »

Broomstick wrote:Warsie, I'd like to point out that even us "neurotypicals" occasionally fuck up while communicating. For future reference, a response that is more likely to defuse the situation is "I worded that badly and did not communicate what I wamted to communicate in the manner I intended." Autistic or not, you DO seem to have a communication problem here.

Here's a tip: when the autistics say you fucked up comminicating or on a social level you HAVE fucked up!
yeah, I admit there are some problems here :P

I admit it!
Well, there's Warsie's problem - he seems to think humans are nice. We're not. We're vicious, nasty, predatory, poo-flinging chimps with overdeveloped brains. The real world can be a nasty, cut-throat place. "Neurotypicals" can be absolute bastards to each other.
I am aware of the dark side of humanity, I'm not ignorant to how humans treat each other.

My opinion of humanity varies, to sometimes think on the optimist side and believe that humans are not inherently "good" or "evil" but are products of their environments, or that they are inherently good but things can make them do bad things (Stanford Prison Experiment) to that people can be biased, aggressive, bastards that you mentioned. Depending on various things, I'm sure it applies to everyone here.

Like the Freud vs Reich arguments, are humans 'good' or 'bad'.

There's also the social psychology part; I've heard (and looked into) where people say that a person in intelligent, but people are stupid with the mob mentality and the like.
So... you want to be treated like everyone else, like humans? Are you sure about that, Warsie? Because to me it sounds more like you want to be sheltered somewhere where everyone plays by the rules. I'm sorry, but that's NOT the real world.

Edit: Forgot "poo-flinging" the first time around. I can't pass up the chance to say "poo-flinging chimps", it just wouldn't be right
It's not as if I'm ignorant of how people can be (I post on a forum that basically has 10 rules and other than that; people are free to do as they wish and there's the flame wars and the like; I've done good there before.)

It does seem that the aggressiveness and strictness here is more extreme than in many other boards, even on the internet. Sorry.

I've participated in the social things, participated in protests, etc.
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Post by Broomstick »

Zixinus wrote:
And I remember similar things said dealing with Eugenics, correct? Scientists said similar things about 'inferior genes' and claimed that it was linked to non-caucasian races. As a matter of fact, the 'nordic' idea came from Eugenics theories and research-perpetuated by scientists.
I don't think that was said by actual scientists in the field of genetics
>sigh<

Yes, this HAS been said by actual real scientists. It was more common at the beginning of the 20th Century but just because someone is a real, legitimate scientist does not mean they are incapable of such opinions/thoughts/whatever you want to call it.

Being a scientist does not automatically make you a nice person.
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Post by Edi »

Broomstick wrote:
Edi wrote:
Warsie wrote: because how I phrased it, right?
Partly that, but also because you keep denying you said something, weaseling away from what you said and whining that people are misinterpreting you. If people consistently understand the things you say differently than what you intended, it is not a problem with them, it's a problem with you.
Warsie, I'd like to point out that even us "neurotypicals" occasionally fuck up while communicating. For future reference, a response that is more likely to defuse the situation is "I worded that badly and did not communicate what I wamted to communicate in the manner I intended." Autistic or not, you DO seem to have a communication problem here.
Warsie wrote: Like what? I didn't saw 'we'; I said 'them', etc. People have those assumptions I guess.
Fuck you, you worthless piece of shit. Nitram already quoted that list of demands back at you. You may not have used the word 'we', but the implications were very, very strong in the context of your posts. If you cannot understand that, then fucking work more on your communication. Everyone else here seems to have drawn the same conclusions I did from your first page posts, so take your sniveling condescension and shove it up your arse, fucktard.
Here's a tip: when the autistics say you fucked up comminicating or on a social level you HAVE fucked up!
Uh, Broomstick? That's not Nit yelling at Warsie you're quoting, that's me. Last I checked, I have never been diagnosed with anything other than some physical problems and an allergy to a couple of antibiotics. Definitely no autistic symptoms of any kind. Though my posts and Nitram's in this thread have been very much in the same vein.
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Post by Broomstick »

Apologies for lack of clarity (remember what I said about normal people and communication?) I was quoting you referencing Nitram and others who do have this sort of problem - obviously, I could have been MUCH clearer. I in no way meant to imply you had problems that you don't

(Is that clear? I'm not sure - off to find more caffeine...)
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Post by Edi »

Yeah, that's clearer. It's just that if somebody gets the wrong idea, it might come up in a later thread, which is why I wanted to make sure there was no misunderstanding here. No problem. :)
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Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
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