March 4 primary discussion and results

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2008-03-04 06:19am

...And Clinton endorses McCain (sort of) http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/ ... 635/468212 (yeah, I know, DailyKos which is heavily pro-Obama)

It is consistent w/ her negative smear campaigning

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2008-03-04 08:47am

MariusRoi wrote: As for me, I'll probably decide who I'll be voting for (I don't like any of my options right now) on the drive to my polling station (as I've said before ABM is my main voting issue, and Obama has made remarks against it in the past).

What is ABM, if you don't mind my asking? My Google-fu is weak.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2008-03-04 08:56am

Anti-Ballistic Missiles. Which are more important than economy, healthcare, the War in Iraq, and a whole lot of issues that's been plaguing the USA lately. I heard that the Anti-Ballistic Missile shield will also help the USA since it can also intercept Republicans from appointing more incompetent cronies into important posts in the government. The ABM shield can also target and terminate Peak Oil before it reaches terminal velocity. The ABM shield can also shoot down Global Warming and recession.

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2008-03-04 08:59am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Anti-Ballistic Missiles. Which are more important than economy, healthcare, the War in Iraq, and a whole lot of issues that's been plaguing the USA lately. I heard that the Anti-Ballistic Missile shield will also help the USA since it can also intercept Republicans from appointing more incompetent cronies into important posts in the government. The ABM shield can also target and terminate Peak Oil before it reaches terminal velocity. The ABM shield can also shoot down Global Warming and recession.

Alright, thank you. I assumed it wasn't the Antique Boat Museum, but stranger things have happened.

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2008-03-04 09:10am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Anti-Ballistic Missiles. Which are more important than economy, healthcare, the War in Iraq, and a whole lot of issues that's been plaguing the USA lately. I heard that the Anti-Ballistic Missile shield will also help the USA since it can also intercept Republicans from appointing more incompetent cronies into important posts in the government. The ABM shield can also target and terminate Peak Oil before it reaches terminal velocity. The ABM shield can also shoot down Global Warming and recession.

I think my sarcasm meter just broke -- you buried the needle in the red.

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2008-03-04 09:14am

Hehe it's all fun and games until a nuclear warhead detonates over your head.

acesand8s · Post by **acesand8s** » 2008-03-04 09:25am

Voted 7AM this morning before work. In RI, you can only vote in your party's primary, though independents can vote in either primary. I voted in the Republican primary in '06 (poor Lincoln Chafee). If you vote in a primary, you are automatically enrolled in the party, you have to disaffiliate to be independent again. I screwed up my disaffiliation form, asked to be switched from the Republican Party to the Republican Party, rather than independent. Fucking stupid. When I checked my registration in January, it was too late to disaffiliate. For some reason you can register to vote a month before the primary, but if you're going to declare a party, you have to do so three months beforehand.

Anyway, I was about the 20th person in line in a somewhat Republican-leaning area. Nonetheless, I was the first person to vote in the Republican party. I didn't hear a single person in line talking about HRC, everyone was an Obama supporter. Pretty surprising; I still expect RI to be close, though.

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2008-03-04 09:53am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Anti-Ballistic Missiles. Which are more important than economy, healthcare, the War in Iraq, and a whole lot of issues that's been plaguing the USA lately. I heard that the Anti-Ballistic Missile shield will also help the USA since it can also intercept Republicans from appointing more incompetent cronies into important posts in the government. The ABM shield can also target and terminate Peak Oil before it reaches terminal velocity. The ABM shield can also shoot down Global Warming and recession.

Let me put it this way - When the Republicans lose the Shep, Chewie, and Marius votes, you know they're dead. Or you can look at it this way - unlike most republicans - I don't say "Defense" I say "ABM" - I know what I want, and I vote accordingly.

Also - Because I dislike all three main candidates, I have to have something to pick one over the others.

Kane Starkiller wrote:Hehe it's all fun and games until a nuclear warhead detonates over your head.

Two things:
1. Nukes don't detonate they initiate.
2. That's what's great about ABM we don't have to initiate one over our territory!

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2008-03-04 09:58am

Marius Roi wrote:Two things:
1. Nukes don't detonate they initiate.
2. That's what's great about ABM we don't have to initiate one over our territory!

Well yes that was my point. It easy to say that economic problems are more important than ABM until a nuke blows up one of your cities.

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2008-03-04 11:09am

Kane Starkiller wrote:
Marius Roi wrote:Two things:
1. Nukes don't detonate they initiate.
2. That's what's great about ABM we don't have to initiate one over our territory!
Well yes that was my point. It easy to say that economic problems are more important than ABM until a nuke blows up one of your cities.

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2008-03-04 01:38pm

Kane Starkiller wrote:Well yes that was my point. It easy to say that economic problems are more important than ABM until a nuke blows up one of your cities.

Ah. So because of something which maybe, possibly, might happen someday perhaps, it's worth ignoring every other problem making the country unlivable.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2008-03-04 02:48pm

Let me put it this way - When the Republicans lose the Shep, Chewie, and Marius votes, you know they're dead.

Honestly, I think this is a mini GOP civil war. The hard core Conservatives have already been talking about seperating themselves from the GOP because of McCain's nomination. The shitheads have had a iron grip on the party for so long, that the idea of not having it is making them think about 'taking their toys and going home' when for almost twenty years the other GOPers ahve been holding their nose and voting for these bible thumping cavemen in their party. Just not this year, they voted for the party hack who isn't a god freak card carrying member.

Post by **Cairber** » 2008-03-04 02:51pm

Getting a little worried here...I just read that some polls out yesterday and this morning are showing Hillary climbing back in front in Texas and Ohio.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2008-03-04 02:53pm

Knife wrote:
Let me put it this way - When the Republicans lose the Shep, Chewie, and Marius votes, you know they're dead.
Honestly, I think this is a mini GOP civil war. The hard core Conservatives have already been talking about seperating themselves from the GOP because of McCain's nomination. The shitheads have had a iron grip on the party for so long, that the idea of not having it is making them think about 'taking their toys and going home' when for almost twenty years the other GOPers ahve been holding their nose and voting for these bible thumping cavemen in their party. Just not this year, they voted for the party hack who isn't a god freak card carrying member.

However the God freak is staying in contention in the hopes that his contingent can leverage him into a VP slot. This whole election cycle seems to be revolving around a realignment of the national parties. The Clintonian hack brigades v. the New Liberals in the Democratic party and you have the Republican divided along Traditional v. Social conservatives.

This has to be one of the most interesting and exciting elections we have had in recent memory.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2008-03-04 02:59pm

Stravo wrote:
However the God freak is staying in contention in the hopes that his contingent can leverage him into a VP slot. This whole election cycle seems to be revolving around a realignment of the national parties. The Clintonian hack brigades v. the New Liberals in the Democratic party and you have the Republican divided along Traditional v. Social conservatives.

This has to be one of the most interesting and exciting elections we have had in recent memory.

Agreed, however in the case of Huckabee, he doesn't really have the clout to force a VP slot. He's soooooooo far down in the delegate race he's really a non issue so I'm not sure at this point what his plan is. Sure he can look to the bible thumpers to 'force the issue' but even then, with a pretty clear mandate, McCain can ignore him.

I don't think he can win against Obama period, so the conservative movment is irrelevant. Against Clinton though.... he might need them, he might not. But Huckabee is hardly the poster boy for the conservatives in that not choosing him for another quasi conservative will be a deal breaker.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-03-04 03:07pm

Cairber wrote:Getting a little worried here...I just read that some polls out yesterday and this morning are showing Hillary climbing back in front in Texas and Ohio.

She needs double digit wins in both to even hope to regain the delegate count. Sheesh, stop worrying.

Aasharu · Post by **Aasharu** » 2008-03-04 03:12pm

I think a lot of the fear is born out of the fact that Hillary has been moving the goal posts so fast, it's hard to keep up. You have to keep in mind that the only person saying that Obama must win in all four states is Hillary.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2008-03-04 03:17pm

SirNitram wrote:
Cairber wrote:Getting a little worried here...I just read that some polls out yesterday and this morning are showing Hillary climbing back in front in Texas and Ohio.
She needs double digit wins in both to even hope to regain the delegate count. Sheesh, stop worrying.

These are not winner take all states, especially Texas can actually have Hillary win the state and still lose out in delegates since Texas has a two step delegate process with one portion being a caucus (something Obama has proven masterful at winning) and the other has delegates proportioned by congressional district so the primarily urban areas with the most delegates can all go to Obama and the other areas going to Hillary so she may technically win the state and lose in terms of the delegate count. This is something her team threatened to sue on because they were too fucking inept to understand how Texas worked until it came into contention.

Fact is Hillary must win the rest of these primaries by huge (like 70-30 type huge) margins in order to catch up to Obama. She's basically done.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2008-03-04 03:22pm

Stravo wrote:These are not winner take all states, especially Texas can actually have Hillary win the state and still lose out in delegates since Texas has a two step delegate process with one portion being a caucus (something Obama has proven masterful at winning) and the other has delegates proportioned by congressional district so the primarily urban areas with the most delegates can all go to Obama and the other areas going to Hillary so she may technically win the state and lose in terms of the delegate count. This is something her team threatened to sue on because they were too fucking inept to understand how Texas worked until it came into contention.

How can you sue Texas for being Texas and following its own laws without pissing on the state democratic party?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-03-04 03:23pm

Aasharu wrote:I think a lot of the fear is born out of the fact that Hillary has been moving the goal posts so fast, it's hard to keep up. You have to keep in mind that the only person saying that Obama must win in all four states is Hillary.

Whoop de shit. Mark Penn is batshit insane and will do anything to stay on the gravy train a little longer. If this surprises you, you've not been paying attention.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-03-04 03:24pm

Knife wrote:
Let me put it this way - When the Republicans lose the Shep, Chewie, and Marius votes, you know they're dead.
Honestly, I think this is a mini GOP civil war. The hard core Conservatives have already been talking about seperating themselves from the GOP because of McCain's nomination. The shitheads have had a iron grip on the party for so long, that the idea of not having it is making them think about 'taking their toys and going home' when for almost twenty years the other GOPers ahve been holding their nose and voting for these bible thumping cavemen in their party. Just not this year, they voted for the party hack who isn't a god freak card carrying member.

The divide in the party isn't so simple, as the conservatives themselves are breaking up into more factions then there are in the Balkans.
The catalyst for all of this was was a combination of factors including, but not limited to, the total budgetary chaos from both Bush and the Repub Congress, the corruption, disillusionment with the Iraq war, Bush's utter shameless lawbreaking, and so on.

Prior to all of this, the factions 'held their noses' and supported each others positions (for the most part) despite any misgivings.
Thanks to GWB and the Repub Congressional 'leadership', the party has fractured and I don't think all of the King's horses and of the Queen's men can put it back together again before the 2010 elections at the earliest.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2008-03-04 03:29pm

I forgot to add that the primaries were a perfect example of this, as the conservatives were unable to unite behind a single candidate, thus leaving the opening for McCain, who while attracting the neocon Iraq vote, didn't have significant drawing power for the Jesus freaks, the libertarian wing, traditional paleocons, and so on.

What McCain did from was support from independents, crossover voters, the 'moderate' wing, and the business wing.

However, McCain damn well knows that he needs the Jesus freaks if for no other reason that they provide the GOP with the same 'boots on the ground' canvassing volunteers that Unions do for the Democrats.

That's why he's pandering to the religious wing right now.

Post by **Cairber** » 2008-03-04 03:34pm

It's not really a fear that she will catch up in delegates; I somehow seem to think that a win in the big states will give her some pull in her efforts to do sneaky things, such as get Florida counted or any of the other reported schemes in the works.

Irrational? probably. But she is so much more entrenched in Washington than Obama seems to be.

Steven Snyder · Post by **Steven Snyder** » 2008-03-04 03:42pm

Cairber wrote:Getting a little worried here...I just read that some polls out yesterday and this morning are showing Hillary climbing back in front in Texas and Ohio.

I don't trust the poll numbers...not after seeing how they broke down earlier in the primary cycle.

I especially don't trust *unexpected* poll numbers which scream 'Keep your eyes on the news folks, this race just got interesting!' on the morning of a big primary.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2008-03-04 03:43pm

Cairber wrote:It's not really a fear that she will catch up in delegates; I somehow seem to think that a win in the big states will give her some pull in her efforts to do sneaky things, such as get Florida counted or any of the other reported schemes in the works.

Irrational? probably. But she is so much more entrenched in Washington than Obama seems to be.

Yep. Entrenched in the structure that ruled the Democratic party from 1994 to 2004.

Check the election results. The Dems kept losing through those years.