Zapatero leads opinion polls in Spain

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K. A. Pital
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Zapatero leads opinion polls in Spain

Post by K. A. Pital »

BBC
BBC wrote:Spain PM 'clearly won' TV debate
Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero (L), moderator Olga Viza, and Mariano Rajoy
Despite the smiles, the candidates accused each other of lying
Spain's PM Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero clearly beat his conservative rival in their second and final pre-election TV debate, Spanish opinion polls show.

The Socialist leader came top in four opinion polls after the debate on Monday evening, watched by 11.7 million people ahead of the 9 March election.

A poll for the TV station Cuatro gave Mr Zapatero 50.8%, against 29% for Popular Party leader Mariano Rajoy.

They called each other liars in angry exchanges on the economy and terrorism.

A poll for La Sexta television put Mr Zapatero on 49.2% and his rival on 29.8%, with 21% calling it a draw.

Mr Rajoy accused the government of weakness on the issue of immigration.

But the contribution of immigrants to Spanish society was defended by Mr Zapatero.

The most recent opinion polls before Monday gave Mr Zapatero's Socialists a lead of about 4% over the conservative PP.

New electoral territory

Mr Rajoy chose immigration as his main line of attack, the BBC's Steve Kingstone reports from Madrid.

"Uncontrolled immigration is a danger," he said. "And some Spaniards may feel that they are negatively affected - when they try to access to healthcare or housing, or find a place in school for their children. Your policy has been weak."

In response, Mr Zapatero pointed to partnership agreements with African governments that had helped reduce the flow of illegal immigrants.

And he explained that foreigners residing legally in Spain were net contributors to social security and had helped stimulate the economy.

Spain accounts for well over a third of all net immigration into the European Union.

But by focusing on the issue in such stark terms, Mr Rajoy is taking Spain into new electoral territory, our correspondent says. His hope is that Spaniards already coping with rising food prices and unemployment may quietly agree that too many foreigners are not helping the situation.

That has enabled the government to accuse Mr Rajoy of xenophobia.
And you know what? Zapatero did lots of good things and it's only right if he wins: for one, he demolished the absurd idea that religious "education" is worth anything. "Oh noes Zapatero crushed private schooling! Hooo!" - the same radical clerical fucktards who stood behind Franco when he summarily shot secular teachers and made religious education mandatory now stall a good reform which would secularize and universalize education in Spain.

Also, legalized same sex marriages (again Catholic morons were outraged).

Finally, removed Spain out of the Iraq debacle.

As far as I see, he's a noteworthy leader, receiving somewhat little attention abroad despite the progressive measures he implements.
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Post by Thanas »

I have nothing to say except that I applaud the re-election of Mr. Zapatero, for he is a way better partner to deal with in regards to the EU.
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Murazor
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Post by Murazor »

I'll probably vote for Zapatero, not that I'm particularly enthusiastic about it, because Rajoy is more or less a willing puppet of the post-Aznar camarilla that still controls the PP and these folks very recently told the head of the most centrist leader of the party to go to hell.

Nonetheless, Zapatero has done very little to improve some rather serious situations. For example, the mess that is our educative system isn't improving anything and focusing the entire debate in the Religion lessons didn't help this much. While he didn't cause it, he sure as hell has done nothing to improve it.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Murazor wrote:For example, the mess that is our educative system isn't improving anything and focusing the entire debate in the Religion lessons didn't help this much.
Hmm... what is the general problem then? Is your education universal and public or private? What has been the result of the reforms Zapatero tried (aside religious protests which got even to the Russian TV)?
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Post by Murazor »

Stas Bush wrote:Hmm... what is the general problem then? Is your education universal and public or private? What has been the result of the reforms Zapatero tried (aside religious protests which got even to the Russian TV)?
Education is a constitutional right and there is a fairly decent universal system, although those who want have the option to pick private schooling. Many private centers became "concertados" (they get public funding, in exchange for working almost like a normal public school) in the 90s and there has been some bitching about that.

However, the first major problem is that as a result of reforms done in the last twenty years, compulsory education was extended from 14 to 16 years in average as a result of the introduction of a new system called ESO (Compulsory Secondary Education) which replaced the former EGB (Basic General Education). In paper, this is a good idea, but it resulted in forcing potentially conflictive students inside school for two more years in order to get the most basic of academic qualifications.

Nowadays, there are figures that suggest that up to 35% in some regions drop out and join the workforce with no diploma. As politicians didn't like these figures much, they decided to make the whole ESO program easier. The very latest reform (sponsored by Zapatero, yes) makes it possible for someone to automatically advance to the next level with as many as three failed subjects.

Add to this the fact that the transference of educational authority to the autonomic regions has resulted in diverging levels of preparation and growing conflicts in recent years (beating teachers has become a bit of a hobby for some) and we have an educative system in dire need of overhaul.

Oh. And the religious protests were more or less overblown bullshit sponsored by the PP (that was trying to create demonstrations as large as those that followed their decision to go to Irak, they are kinda obsessed about that). Nobody with half a brain really paid much attention. The number of Spanish "catholics" that never go to mass and consider the bishops to be idiots has skyrocketed in recent years.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Ah, I see. Yeah, a tough problem and not one easily solved. Improving secondary enrollment rates isn't an easy thing. Though some nations manage to rack that up to ~90% with a good universal system; I guess creating some incentives to remain enrolled is important as a very first measure.

And the PP sure seems to be fond of religion; I guess it's some sort of Spanish equivalent of the U.S. Republican Party.
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Post by Murazor »

Stas Bush wrote:And the PP sure seems to be fond of religion; I guess it's some sort of Spanish equivalent of the U.S. Republican Party.
Quite. It was founded by a former dictatorship minister, after all. And at the moment and excluding some fringe groups that literally nobody worries about, Spain has no large extreme right wing parties, because the PP is the entire right from semi-centrist demochristians to former high-ranking officers of Franco's dictatorship (a dying breed) and some homegrown neocons. The last two groups are currently firmly in control of the party and it looks like there will be no changes in this in the foreseeable future.

Alberto Ruiz-Gallardon, the mayor of Madrid, is the unofficial leader of the moderate wings of the party and he has been slapped down hard recently, when Rajoy didn't include him in the lists for Congress, which pretty much rules him out of the possibility of going national. And he is the only moderate with a shot at becoming the next party leader, because Rodrigo Rato has pretty much stated that he has no interest in Spanish politics at this point and Josep Piqué was sent to the Catalonian exile (they put him as leader of the Catalonian PP, a division of the party with no influence whatsoever and without a chance in hell of getting in a position of political influence).
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

I like Zapatero, too bad I won't be able to vote for him, I forgot to update my address at the Spanish consulate. Ah well, he's going to win anyway.
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