"I pity da fool who gets elected into this mess"

[J]

A day or two ago I went back to check Jim Kunstler's blog (Forecast for 2008) to see how many of his predictions have come true so far. So far, his predictions have been more accurate than those of the talking heads and "analysts" on TV, but that's not really what I want to discuss.

The line which stuck out at me is the title of this thread, which you may recognize as a paraphrase of Mr. T's famous line. I think most of us can agree that we're headed for one heck of a mess, the economy's going downhill, oil & energy prices are on a steady upward march, the situation in the middle east isn't getting any better, and back in the US there's all kinds of political dickery going on.

Which brings us to November, whomever wins the Presidential election is going to inherit one hell of a mess and will almost certainly be fighting off one crisis after another, and quite possibly several at the same time. If this person happens to be Obama it's almost a sure bet the Republicans & their media lackeys will be doing everything they can to pin the blame on him, nevermind that they were the ones who got us into this mess in the first place. It's (quite) possible the Democrats will be ruined & discredited for quite some time by having this GOP created mess fall in their laps, and then get kicked while their down by the GOP propaganda machine.

So, hypothetically speaking, would it be in the Democrats' interests to win this coming election, or should they let the GOP inherit their own mess, hopefully ruining them as a viable party for the next dozen years?

[CaptainChewbacca]

I actually think that Obama winning the election and picking some good, competent people from both sides of the aisle to run things is one of the very few ways we can get through the coming years intact. He, more than anyone else, can inspire Americans to get up and TRY to fix things. For at least the first few months, whatever he asks us to do I have no dobut people WILL try to do.

[Fiji_Fury]

I suggest than any political party that considers "letting" its opposition win power on the scale of the United States Presidency is merely rationalizing its own pitiful failure of leadership. Waiting for the GOP candidates to fuck up worse than has already happened between 2000 to now could justifiably be called negligence.

Should Hillary or Obama win the Presidency, the GOP will (as you have suggested) try to smear them with the blame for all of the worlds problems. That's the kind of goat-fuckers the GOP are. If the Dems can't deal with it and keep the public record marginally straight, they have no business being in politics, and certainly no business being the leadership of the US government.

The social and economic issues are legion and the GOP has screwed up on just about every measurable level so thoroughly in the past eight years that to suggest they be made to "clean up their own mess" just can't be accepted. Those clowns have demonstrated an almost contemptuous disregard for any notion of responsibility and need to be voted the hell out of office.

[Illuminatus Primus]

If Jim Kunstler is right its more a matter of coincidence or luck than any substantive predictive powers employed by his intellect. He represents, for me, the most lamentable side of sustainability activists/peakists.

[Lord of the Abyss]

So, hypothetically speaking, would it be in the Democrats' interests to win this coming election, or should they let the GOP inherit their own mess, hopefully ruining them as a viable party for the next dozen years?

From a purely political viewpoint, probably. However, most people, including most political leaders, have interests beyond the purely political. The Democrats actually live here, after all; it isn't in their interest to let the Republicans screw up the country they live in even worse. If the Republicans managed to put America into something like the Great Depression, political victories would be cold comfort.

[Big Orange]

What if McCain gets into power instead? With the American economy dying on his watch he would perhaps only be in power for a mere four years, with Democrats demanded into power (in the meantime the American Right would still fling shit at them all the same).

[Chris OFarrell]

I think your asking the wrong questions. Its not about is it better for the Republicans to get in and be left with the mess so we can all laugh, its about WHO getting in will be able to try to fix UP the mess, brace the US for all the chaos thats going to start happening over the next few decades?

I'd rather have an effective Government, then the joy of being able to point and say 'See, it WAS your fault all along' in some kind of broken down nightmare state.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I'd rather have an effective Government, then the joy of being able to point and say 'See, it WAS your fault all along' in some kind of broken down nightmare state.

My thoughts exactly. I've already had the opportunity to point the finger of blame at the government from within one destroyed city in my lifetime, and I have every reason to think once is quite enough!