starcraft verses alpha quadrant

[Darth_Shinji]

As for the firepower of Terran ships, I've heard about a SC novel which describes a scene in which a dozen battlecruisers BDZ a world. Has anyone here read any of the SC novels and is able to offer any more info about this?

I'm hoping to buy the other two soon. So I'll let you guys now if I find it.

I've also heard that in one book, A yamanto blast hits a target half of a solar system away.

Here is a tatic no one has mentioned yet. Why not use an aplocalypse nuke first-strike at earth? Korhal was said in the manual to be "distant". Implies ftl to me. And if it has comparible speed to normal sc ftl there is no way the ufp can send enought ships to stop a thousand of them.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Igot, I'm pretty darn sure that at the end of the Terran Campaign in Brood War, we see the Yamato destroy some other ship(s). I don't think it was a propaganda film. But it has been a while since I've played the campaigns, so my recolections of them are sketchy at best.

Also, the Protoss do BDZ (or whatever you'd call it, in this scenario) a couple of planets, as Jim said. I am inclined to believe that the Terrans hold similar power, maybe less, but not by any orders of magnitude I should think.

One last note, are the books considered canon in the SC universe? If they are, they are our best bet at descriptions of SC firepower.

[Cpt_Frank]

I guess the books should be considered canon. Admittedly, I haven't read them, but only because they're not available here in Germany - I'll look for them at amazon or somewhere for them.

As for that propaganda video thing:
Now, the terran end video is a propaganda video, but it includes scenes from real battles (as if they would blow up a battlecruiser for 5 seconds of porpaganda video!). The Yamato canon is powerful. Unfortunately, we don't know much about the target battlecruiser, if it was already damaged etc.

[lgot]

They don't use big orbital bombardments agains the Overmind or Cerebrates because only Dark Templars can kill them without having them reincarnate. Many of the ground battles also take place because of a reluctance to wipe out the entire world. Also, the Protoss do destroy the surfaces of two planets, Chau Sara and Mar Sara.

After the Dark Templars did their job they need to wipe out the surface to a final blow and they are unable to use it a orbital attack. With all the fleet there.
They take place for ground battle because they are build for it. Protoss and Zerg have plenty of unities with melee attack. Before BW, the Zerg only had 2 unities for ai attack and of those ultras are only those who are "ships". Even the Guardian evolution was to turn to one ground unity attack. This show they have "ground" mentality.
Its said the Protoss wasted both Planets, isnt ? But no one said which fleet they used , how or the result of it, correct ?

Igot, I'm pretty darn sure that at the end of the Terran Campaign in Brood War, we see the Yamato destroy some other ship(s). I don't think it was a propaganda film. But it has been a while since I've played the campaigns, so my recolections of them are sketchy at best.

Both Terran campaign final videos are propaganda ones. It destroy a battlecruiser with one shot.

As for that propaganda video thing:
Now, the terran end video is a propaganda video, but it includes scenes from real battles (as if they would blow up a battlecruiser for 5 seconds of porpaganda video!). The Yamato canon is powerful. Unfortunately, we don't know much about the target battlecruiser, if it was already damaged etc.

You silly. They can show just the final blow for propaganda sake (The battlecruiser shoot was in an battle, so why dont he have damage).
And
in game:
Yamato cannt destroy mostly buldings. Cannt destroy a Carrier or a Battlecruiser (the biggest ships in the game) in one shot, unless it slighty damaged.
In the video:
They destroyed a Battlecruiser in one shot. Or the battlecruiser in the video was already damaged or we have to apply the idea of the video shows a stronger Yamato. But then: Its just slightly strong and if its able to destroy a battlecruiser still unable to destroy most buldings.

Then my question, which no one cared to answer, remains : The question is ST ships show ability of orbital attack to destroy totally a considerably part of the surface of planet ?
What would happen if we nuke ST buldings or ships ?

As the books, we should be careful to read it first. Then it may be interesting to answer many doubts.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Protoss fleet that did the BDZ is said to be 50 ships.

[Jim Raynor]

They don't use big orbital bombardments agains the Overmind or Cerebrates because only Dark Templars can kill them without having them reincarnate. Many of the ground battles also take place because of a reluctance to wipe out the entire world. Also, the Protoss do destroy the surfaces of two planets, Chau Sara and Mar Sara.

After the Dark Templars did their job they need to wipe out the surface to a final blow and they are unable to use it a orbital attack. With all the fleet there.
They take place for ground battle because they are build for it. Protoss and Zerg have plenty of unities with melee attack. Before BW, the Zerg only had 2 unities for ai attack and of those ultras are only those who are "ships". Even the Guardian evolution was to turn to one ground unity attack. This show they have "ground" mentality.
Its said the Protoss wasted both Planets, isnt ? But no one said which fleet they used , how or the result of it, correct ?

In the missions where you attack cerebrates or the Overmind, most of the zerg are already dead by the time you get to them. Also, why would the Protoss want to wipe out the surface of their own home planet, where these missions take place? And yes, the gameplay might focus on ground combat, but I fail to see why this proves that SC fleets can't cause large-scale destruction during orbital bombardments, which the Protoss do on two occasions.

As for that propaganda video thing:
Now, the terran end video is a propaganda video, but it includes scenes from real battles (as if they would blow up a battlecruiser for 5 seconds of porpaganda video!). The Yamato canon is powerful. Unfortunately, we don't know much about the target battlecruiser, if it was already damaged etc.

You silly. They can show just the final blow for propaganda sake (The battlecruiser shoot was in an battle, so why dont he have damage).
And
in game:
Yamato cannt destroy mostly buldings. Cannt destroy a Carrier or a Battlecruiser (the biggest ships in the game) in one shot, unless it slighty damaged.
In the video:
They destroyed a Battlecruiser in one shot. Or the battlecruiser in the video was already damaged or we have to apply the idea of the video shows a stronger Yamato. But then: Its just slightly strong and if its able to destroy a battlecruiser still unable to destroy most buldings.

The battlecruiser being shot did not seem to have any damage by the looks of it. Also, we don't accept in-game things like not being able to kill one building with a Yamato as canon.

Then my question, which no one cared to answer, remains : The question is ST ships show ability of orbital attack to destroy totally a considerably part of the surface of planet ?
What would happen if we nuke ST buldings or ships ?

With weapons in the megaton range, a fleet of ST ships can probably cause lots of destruction, though not nearly as much as a SW style BDZ. If nuked, most ST buildings would probably go down. A large nuke would seriously damage if no destroy a ST ship, though it's not as big a deal since all their shipboard weapons are in the megaton range.

As the books, we should be careful to read it first. Then it may be interesting to answer many doubts.

I agree. The thing is that most of us can't get our hands on the SC novels.

[HemlockGrey]

Zerg are capable of instant warp travel. We see this in a cutscene, when they go through some sort of worm hole, and the following text says that they have 'teleported' to Aiur. They took so long getting to the whatsit Sector because they stopped every so often to assimilate other speicies and hunt for the Protoss-the entire point of the journey was that the Overmind wanted to assimilate the Protoss.

And, in the propaganda cutscene at the end of the Terran Brood War campaign, we see the UED garrison of Char, and it's quite an impressive fleet.

Of course, spaceships don't conquer territory - ground troops do. The Terrans are the very embodiment of combined arms. I'm not sure if hand-phasers can bypass Protoss shielding(though I'm inclined to say they can), but a reaver is going to do helluva lot of damage to a nice, neat Federation line.

I doubt that any redshirt is going to be able to stand up to an ultralisk or hyrdalisk, so no question there.

[Darth_Shinji]

Then my question, which no one cared to answer, remains : The question is ST ships show ability of orbital attack to destroy totally a considerably part of the surface of planet ?
What would happen if we nuke ST buldings or ships ?

Exactly my point. In the manual a missle strike of one-thousand Apocalpse class nukes BDZ a planet. Actaully it was worse than a imp BDZ now that I reread it. Not only did it mealted the crust, It glassifyied it. That implies even more power than your typical BDZ. The UFP's dependcy on earth, and thier horrible defence of it, is well known. So I say:

Nuke'em till they glow!

[Cpt_Frank]

And
in game:
Yamato cannt destroy mostly buldings. Cannt destroy a Carrier or a Battlecruiser (the biggest ships in the game) in one shot, unless it slighty damaged.
In the video:
They destroyed a Battlecruiser in one shot. Or the battlecruiser in the video was already damaged or we have to apply the idea of the video shows a stronger Yamato. But then: Its just slightly strong and if its able to destroy a battlecruiser still unable to destroy most buldings.

In game is to be disregarded. Only the storyline and the units portraied are canon, not the sizes, the speed of building, the damage of the weapons etc.
Your argument relies completely on in-game things which are to be disregarded.

You silly. They can show just the final blow for propaganda sake (The battlecruiser shoot was in an battle, so why dont he have damage).

That was exactly what I was saying.
Btw, what makes you thing the yamato canon can not take down a BC in a single shot? Apparently the canon is fed from some kind of battery which slowly recharges, so that firing the canon won't drain the energy of other systems. Perhaps the canon has an adjustable yield, and perhaps if you fire the canon with full power it is capable of destroying an undamaged BC.

Exactly my point. In the manual a missle strike of one-thousand Apocalpse class nukes BDZ a planet. Actaully it was worse than a imp BDZ now that I reread it. Not only did it mealted the crust, It glassifyied it. That implies even more power than your typical BDZ. The UFP's dependcy on earth, and thier horrible defence of it, is well known. So I say:

Nuke'em till they glow!

And since the Confederacy already did so in the past, the Terrans do have the resources, and, if necessary, will not hesitate to do so.

[starfury]

Of course, spaceships don't conquer territory - ground troops do. The Terrans are the very embodiment of combined arms. I'm not sure if hand-phasers can bypass Protoss shielding(though I'm inclined to say they can), but a reaver is going to do helluva lot of damage to a nice, neat Federation line.

I doubt that any redshirt is going to be able to stand up to an ultralisk or hyrdalisk, so no question there.

what about the terran siege tank, I would to see it blast the federation soldiers with it's huge shells, not to mention protoss zealots slicing and dicing klingons.

and what about zerg lurkers ripping ST troops to shreds with it's spines.

[lgot]

In the missions where you attack cerebrates or the Overmind, most of the zerg are already dead by the time you get to them. Also, why would the Protoss want to wipe out the surface of their own home planet, where these missions take place? And yes, the gameplay might focus on ground combat, but I fail to see why this proves that SC fleets can't cause large-scale destruction during orbital bombardments, which the Protoss do on two occasions.

Do not ask me, I know all that. But that does not change they have that dialogue in the end and do it without - in their own interpretation -giving any time time to Raynor and Tassadar move out themselves and their fleet. Which make me suppose a lack of capacity to command a long distace attack.
The protoss do on two occasions ? I do not remember any time saying there was a oribital bombardments, but I must be sliping out it. When that is show...i do not wish to go playing all the story over again...

The battlecruiser being shot did not seem to have any damage by the looks of it. Also, we don't accept in-game things like not being able to kill one building with a Yamato as canon.

Neither shows any sign of being active also.
And i am sorry, but Starcraft is the game. The canon are the game and the cutscenes. Besides it, we only have one scene of a shot from a Yamato Gun, all other stuff is speculation (and people are already making it DBZ a world ? From a short distance shot and nothing else ?)

With weapons in the megaton range, a fleet of ST ships can probably cause lots of destruction, though not nearly as much as a SW style BDZ. If nuked, most ST buildings would probably go down. A large nuke would seriously damage if no destroy a ST ship, though it's not as big a deal since all their shipboard weapons are in the megaton range.

You mean, Enterprise, as example, can resist a nuke ?
I seem to remember ,in the classic series, Kirk doing meneace to use Enterprise to shot and destroy the surface where the enemies are there. How much actually Enterprise can do ? you know ? Can only kill civilians and some buldings ? Can destroy heavy armored places ? Only a small area or large area ?

Of course, spaceships don't conquer territory - ground troops do. The Terrans are the very embodiment of combined arms. I'm not sure if hand-phasers can bypass Protoss shielding(though I'm inclined to say they can), but a reaver is going to do helluva lot of damage to a nice, neat Federation line.

No doubt. I have never argued about this. In the ground the Federation will be wasted. If the Zergs attack a urban area, where the ferederation had to drop people to protect the population, that would be a massacre.

Exactly my point. In the manual a missle strike of one-thousand Apocalpse class nukes BDZ a planet. Actaully it was worse than a imp BDZ now that I reread it. Not only did it mealted the crust, It glassifyied it. That implies even more power than your typical BDZ. The UFP's dependcy on earth, and thier horrible defence of it, is well known. So I say:

sorry, I got confused. You mean a single ship from ST or SW universe can do it ?

That was exactly what I was saying.
Btw, what makes you thing the yamato canon can not take down a BC in a single shot? Apparently the canon is fed from some kind of battery which slowly recharges, so that firing the canon won't drain the energy of other systems. Perhaps the canon has an adjustable yield, and perhaps if you fire the canon with full power it is capable of destroying an undamaged BC.

This is in game, i supose you asked knowing it. It cannot. A single shot will leave the BC with only around 25% of hit points, so it cannot.

[Cpt_Frank]

Igot, again I will say we only can take the storyline of the actual game as canon. The game was designed to be balanced. That includes the Yamato canon doesn't kill everything with one shot. The game was also meant to be fun. That includes, that building structures or units won't take as long as it might take in reality.

As for the protoss' burning of a planet: it's mentioned in the manual:
"The conclave, hearing of the colony's fate, immediately ordered Tassadar to burn the entire planet of its infestation. Knowing that the burning would eradicate all life on the planet, Tassadar sorrowfully obeyed his masters.
It's also mentioned during the actual game, I'm gonna find the quote.

As for the nukes, here's another quote:"A salvo of one thousand Apocalypse-class nuclear missiles was fired at the planet of Korhal from the distant confederate capital of Tarsonis.
Over 4,000,000 people were annihilated during the savage attack. In a single instant, the prosperous colony of Korhal was reduced to nothing more than a super-heated sphere of blackened glass and stirring phantoms."
This imples not only very powerful weapons, but also it shows that the Nukes are apparently capable of superluminal travel.

[starcraft]

well in a strait fight it will be like this star treck will beat battle cruisers and the like in space but in a ground battle star craft will win. and this is in the dominion war the dominion will fight them too. i Say that becase ships like the wraithe and such have no sheilds. Makes me wonder if the zerg find the betzoids you know those telepaths like deana i'm sure the zerg will asimilate people like deana like they did with kerrigan.

[Cpt_Frank]

Terran ships make up for their lack of shields with heavy armor and durability. Though we don't know the yield of their weapons, I believe they're powerful enough to make a good fight against any ST ship.

[Darth_Shinji]

Exactly my point. In the manual a missle strike of one-thousand Apocalpse class nukes BDZ a planet. Actaully it was worse than a imp BDZ now that I reread it. Not only did it mealted the crust, It glassifyied it. That implies even more power than your typical BDZ. The UFP's dependcy on earth, and thier horrible defence of it, is well known. So I say:

sorry, I got confused. You mean a single ship from ST or SW universe can do it ?

I meant a nuke strike like the one in the manual. But Cpt_Frank has already provided the quote. Though to be honest, I've talked with a friend about it. And he says that it is a little less energy than a BDZ (which I was just using as a comparision). He says that if the attack mealted the crust, you would have layers where things have seperated because of densitys.

Unless we were to take that quote compleatly literal and say it was the entire volume of the planet that glassifyied.

[starfury]

Igot I think the main point Cpt_frank is trying to say is that the movies are easier to belive then the actual in-game. after if we use in-game sequences we have to belive the wraith, mutalisk, etc attack turrents by hovering around and shooting at it, something no real aircraft does.

That is why I go with his view that the in-game scenes should be disregarded, I mean seriously do Jet fighters attack ground targets by hovering still while strafing the ground, I think not, we also have to think that they have 100% accurary, something unrealistic to say the least even by sci-fi strandards.

[lgot]

Igot, again I will say we only can take the storyline of the actual game as canon. The game was designed to be balanced. That includes the Yamato canon doesn't kill everything with one shot. The game was also meant to be fun. That includes, that building structures or units won't take as long as it might take in reality.

Sorry, but you people are talking about a yamato being able to destroy everything , to DBZ from Orbit and all that. And This is not show in the movies.
Also, what is show in the movie is plausible with what is show in the game, so there is no reason to dismiss that easily the game.
And for fun ? So what. Yoda was that fast for fun. Should we dismiss it ?
The movie sequence was made that way - One shot yamato to destroy a BC for fun also.

As for the protoss' burning of a planet: it's mentioned in the manual:
"The conclave, hearing of the colony's fate, immediately ordered Tassadar to burn the entire planet of its infestation. Knowing that the burning would eradicate all life on the planet, Tassadar sorrowfully obeyed his masters.
It's also mentioned during the actual game, I'm gonna find the quote.

Then it is not mentioned anywhere that they BDZ the planet form orbit. Then he burns the planet in the same way the final of the game is. Saying they can do it from long distance have not yet find any evidence.

As for the nukes, here's another quote:"A salvo of one thousand Apocalypse-class nuclear missiles was fired at the planet of Korhal from the distant confederate capital of Tarsonis.
Over 4,000,000 people were annihilated during the savage attack. In a single instant, the prosperous colony of Korhal was reduced to nothing more than a super-heated sphere of blackened glass and stirring phantoms."
This imples not only very powerful weapons, but also it shows that the Nukes are apparently capable of superluminal travel.

And so ? That prove they can send thousands nukes to erradicate life. (Not to say they need ghosts to do nukes...)So do we.
I repeat :
What is result of nuking a single ship in ST universe ? A planet ? What would happen ?
Enterprise have weapons when fired with maximum power at planet and that would cause what kind of destruction ?

What is the size of a ship like Enterprise ?

[Cpt_Frank]

Sorry, but you people are talking about a yamato being able to destroy everything , to DBZ from Orbit and all that. And This is not show in the movies.
Also, what is show in the movie is plausible with what is show in the game, so there is no reason to dismiss that easily the game.
And for fun ? So what. Yoda was that fast for fun. Should we dismiss it ?
The movie sequence was made that way - One shot yamato to destroy a BC for fun also.

The Yamato is not that powerful. And the game is designed to be balanced, and as such, can not represent the power of the individual units correctly. The movies, manual and novels portray SC's real life. Simple.

And so ? That prove they can send thousands nukes to erradicate life. (Not to say they need ghosts to do nukes...)So do we.
I repeat :
What is result of nuking a single ship in ST universe ? A planet ? What would happen ?
Enterprise have weapons when fired with maximum power at planet and that would cause what kind of destruction ?

What is the size of a ship like Enterprise ?

Again you display your ignorance. A thousand nukes glassified the planets surface. In TDIC, ST ships kept on pounding the founders planet with their weapons, with little visible result. So what?
And you don't need ghosts for nuclear strikes. The Apocalypse class nuke is a strategical weapon, and they were banned by the Confederacy afterwards. The Nukes in the game are small tactical nukes, and it is imperative to target them precisely. If you just send a thousand nukes to destroy a planet, extreme precision is not needed.

[lgot]

The Yamato is not that powerful. And the game is designed to be balanced, and as such, can not represent the power of the individual units correctly. The movies, manual and novels portray SC's real life. Simple.

Yeah. But there was people saying here that Yamato shot could destroy a half of planet and that stuff. You tell them they are not very powerful, not me, because that was exactly what I am saying.
If everyone had a weapon able to destroy anything in a single shot, then the game would be balanced as well. That is the real meaning of balance. Which is a bit gross, since no one else have the Protoss power to steal unities and produce the same technology and weapons of the enemy. Real Life (ha,ha, Real life) the protoss are more powerful then the others.
And you please, the movies and manual - and novels , have you read them ? - are similar to what showed in the game. There is few differences that come from the playing, like the 200 unities limites - but all in the movies the unities acted in very similar way of the movies. You people seem to act to high against the game for no much reasons.

Again you display your ignorance. A thousand nukes glassified the planets surface. In TDIC, ST ships kept on pounding the founders planet with their weapons, with little visible result. So what?

I would like to know where "again" i display my ignorance.
Iif you are able to read from where i said about the life erradication, a quote from you which said : "Over 4,000,000 people were annihilated during the savage attack.". If that is not life erradication, then what would i call it ?
And by ignorance the question about ST ships, then i am ignorant for not knowing it and therefore asking for it.
I ask again, what happens with a ship of ST when nuked ? It is destroyed ?

And you don't need ghosts for nuclear strikes. The Apocalypse class nuke is a strategical weapon, and they were banned by the Confederacy afterwards. The Nukes in the game are small tactical nukes, and it is imperative to target them precisely. If you just send a thousand nukes to destroy a planet, extreme precision is not needed.

I suppose this in the manual. Could you quote the information about this ? I am ignorant about this, I adimit it, so i ask.

[ArmorPierce]

In the ending cutscene of BroodWars for the Terrans, they show the Zerg deaths in the billions. But after this they were still able to win. This means that they must be numbering at least at 10billion

[Sea Skimmer]

Then it is not mentioned anywhere that they BDZ the planet form orbit. Then he burns the planet in the same way the final of the game is. Saying they can do it from long distance have not yet find any evidence.

The complete quote is

"The Conclave, hearing of the colony's fate, immediately ordered Tassadar to burn the entire planet of its infestation. Knowing that the burning would eradicate all life on the planet, Tassadar sorrowfully obeyed his masters. The lumbering Protoss warships powered up their weapons and opened fire on the upon the unsuspecting colony."

The Terren's have an extensive capacity for space flight, so if the colony did not know 50 alien ships were around, they must have been some distance away.

And so ? That prove they can send thousands nukes to erradicate life. (Not to say they need ghosts to do nukes...)So do we.
I repeat :
What is result of nuking a single ship in ST universe ? A planet ? What would happen ?
Enterprise have weapons when fired with maximum power at planet and that would cause what kind of destruction ?

What is the size of a ship like Enterprise ?

Not only Erradicate all life but reduce the world to blackened glass. Even decades later its still a barren Desert. The Enterprise has never come close to demonstrating this level of distruction.

[lgot]

The Terren's have an extensive capacity for space flight, so if the colony did not know 50 alien ships were around, they must have been some distance away.

the human quote:
"Without Warning a fleet of fifty alien warships descended from the skies over the outlying Confederate colony of Chau Sara"

They say they descend from Skye, not that they fired from space or anything.

Not only Erradicate all life but reduce the world to blackened glass. Even decades later its still a barren Desert. The Enterprise has never come close to demonstrating this level of distruction.

You people seem to not understand. I made questions not comparasion about the power of thousand nuclear misseles and one ship.
I asked the level of destruction they could cause and instead people only answer me that it cannt be the same of thousand nukes which i never said. I already said that ground battle is victory for Starcraft, I am just thinking the ships.

[Cpt_Frank]

Actually, we don't know anything about SC weapon's yields. Except for the Protoss can burn a planet. Not much to start with.

[lgot]

yes , true. Also Starcraft is sometimes odd, blizzard call something plasma then say its concusion damage,, they say the thing spit acid and this work in the vacum as the same as anything.
In the end, ST look similar to SC. The difference is SC is very ground basead and ST is for space travel.And Humans in SC are more nasty and not that moralists. The Zergs are borgs just as bugs, this kind of stuff. If Borgs are a problem in ST universe, so would be the zergs. And if Vulcane little mind tricks work, Protoss would work also.
If the ST readers need to tell a story again but need a more neutral-good race and another badass, they can just pick Zerg and Protoss. They would work just ok.

[Guest]

In the ending cutscene of BroodWars for the Terrans, they show the Zerg deaths in the billions. But after this they were still able to win. This means that they must be numbering at least at 10billion

The UED victory report is such an exaggerated parody of a propaganda video that I don't think anything said in it can be taken as canon.

IIRC, The combined Zerg broods had a few billion total units in them when the Swarm attacked the Koprulu sector.