Ferkelbuch not on the german index

[Thunderfire]

The Bundesprüfstelle für jegendgefähdende Meden refused to put the children book "Wo bitte geht's zu Gott? fragte das kleine Ferkel" on the Index. The german government wanted to pit relligion critic book on the Index. The government argue that the passage where to rabbi tells them about the flood is antisemitic because it put the jewish relligion in a bad light. The Bundesprüfstelle refused to put the book o the Index because the book attacks christianity and Isam too. An eglish translation of the book can be found here.

[Alan Bolte]

Again please, with more attention to spelling, and more info, e.g. what is the BfjM? What is the Index? The link is useless because the site is in German.

[D.Turtle]

From Wikipedia:

The Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien or BPjM (Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons) is an upper-level German federal agency subordinate to the Federal Ministry for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth. It is responsible for examining media works allegedly harmful to young people and entering these onto an official list - a process known as Indizierung (indexing) in German. The decision to index a work has a variety of legal implications.

Apparently the Federal Ministry for Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth had requested that the book "Wo bitte geht's zu Gott? fragte das kleine Ferkel" (roughly: "Please, where does it go to God? asked the little pig") be put on the index for being anti-semitic.

The BfjM denied the request, because all three major religions are criticized in the book, and not only judaism.The Central Council of Jews in Germany had also said the same in a press release on February 6.

Why this is news-worthy I don't know. If they HAD put it on the index, that would have been worth a post - but it wasn't.

[Thunderfire]

Why this is news-worthy I don't know. If they HAD put it on the index, that would have been worth a post - but it wasn't.

Fist sorry about the messed up post. I shouldn't write post at work...

The news worthy part is that the german government tried to ban the book. The book takes a humanist point of view on relligion and shows some of the not so nice parts about the jewish , christian and mohamedanic faith. It is a free speech issue and the german government joined the christian and mohamedanic groups who wanted to ban the book. Some group even filled out a criminal complaint based but the court refused to accept it.FYI Blasphemy is still a felony in germany. A convicted felon might get up to three years in prison.

[Thanas]

Why this is news-worthy I don't know. If they HAD put it on the index, that would have been worth a post - but it wasn't.

Fist sorry about the messed up post. I shouldn't write post at work...

The news worthy part is that the german government tried to ban the book.

No, the german government did not try to ban the book. Some whackos at a junior ministry did and rightly got slapped down by another government agency which is actually....wait for it...a part of the same ministry. So what happened here:

Whacko A phones subdivision of the ministry he works in. "Hey, let's ban this book": Subdivision: "Get bent".

How does that translate into "German government tries to ban the book?"

The book takes a humanist point of view on relligion and shows some of the not so nice parts about the jewish , christian and mohamedanic faith. It is a free speech issue and the german government joined the christian and mohamedanic groups who wanted to ban the book.

BlahBlah. They did not.

Some group even filled out a criminal complaint based but the court refused to accept it.

Again, how is it newsworthy that "some" group file a criminal complaint that was so baseless that the court refused it to accept it? WTF are you trying to show here? Be alarmist about "secularism under attack in Germany?" If so, I wonder where you get that perception from.

FYI Blasphemy is still a felony in germany. A convicted felon might get up to three years in prison.

You are making several mistakes in that post. First, you are confusing Felony with Straftat. Blasphemy is a vergehen, not a verbrechen, which would be the correct translation for felony.

Besides, you oh so convincingly neglect to mention that Blasphemy is one of those laws that was only used once in the history of Germany, and then the case was dismissed because the constitution does guarantee free speech.

In short, there is not a chance of anyone being convicted of anything in germany because he wrote a book against religion.

So again, what's your agenda here?

[Johonebesus]

Wasn't the main concern that the illustration of the rabbi was too similar to old anti-Semitic caricatures?

[Thanas]

^Looks like it. Another point why thunderfire is a blazing moron.

Oh, and they made several obvious mistakes about the jewish religion which should have been clear to anyone who checked wikipedia. So it is a crappy book to boot.

Here is one of the images that raised concern:

[M]

Again, how is it newsworthy that "some" group file a criminal complaint that was so baseless that the court refused it to accept it? WTF are you trying to show here? Be alarmist about "secularism under attack in Germany?" If so, I wonder where you get that perception from.

I know you're just adopting Thunderfire's phrasing, but the case never even went to court. The public prosecutor saw no grounds for criminal charges (Source: Focus.de).

Besides, you oh so convincingly neglect to mention that Blasphemy is one of those laws that was only used once in the history of Germany, and then the case was dismissed because the constitution does guarantee free speech.

In short, there is not a chance of anyone being convicted of anything in germany because he wrote a book against religion.

Which law are you referring to? The "Gotteslästerungsparagraph" §166 StGB has, at the very least, lead to the successful ban of the "Maria-Syndrome". Even more recently, in 2006 a man in Lüdinghausen got one to five years probation for trying to sell toilet paper labeled quoran and calling the quoran a "cookbook for terrorists".

To be fair, there is little chance of anyone having to serve actual prison time.

[Thunderfire]

No, the german government did not try to ban the book. Some whackos at a junior ministry did and rightly got slapped down by another government agency which is actually....wait for it...a part of the same ministry. So what happened here:

The familien ministerium is part of the government right? They had enough time to stop this mess before it went though the process but the didn't.

You are making several mistakes in that post. First, you are confusing Felony with Straftat. Blasphemy is a vergehen, not a verbrechen, which would be the correct translation for felony.

11. Abschnitt - Straftaten, welche sich auf Religion und Weltanschauung beziehen (§§ 166 - 168).

Hmm I read Straftaten here and not Vergehen.

In short, there is not a chance of anyone being convicted of anything in germany because he wrote a book against religion.

So again, what's your agenda here?

Yes I am alarmist here but some politicans e.g. Stoiber & friends want to tighten our blasphemy laws. The criminal complaint was based on § 130 Volksverhetzung - add some kopenhagen style riots and you might find a judge who willing to convict the author of a smiliar book.

[Dahak]

No, the german government did not try to ban the book. Some whackos at a junior ministry did and rightly got slapped down by another government agency which is actually....wait for it...a part of the same ministry. So what happened here:

The familien ministerium is part of the government right? They had enough time to stop this mess before it went though the process but the didn't.

And that means the government endorses the plans of some small ministerial department...how?
A lot of stuff happens that is only caught at a later stage, that does not mean it is the official policy...

And what Stoiber and his ilk want and what realistically happens are completely different things. They can froth at the mouth all they want, Bavaria is still NOT Germany.

[Thunderfire]

And that means the government endorses the plans of some small ministerial department...how?
A lot of stuff happens that is only caught at a later stage, that does not mean it is the official policy...

I don't know if our entire government endorese the plans to put the book on the index but our government likes to overreact when something could be remotely linked to antisemitism.

[Thanas]

No, the german government did not try to ban the book. Some whackos at a junior ministry did and rightly got slapped down by another government agency which is actually....wait for it...a part of the same ministry. So what happened here:

The familien ministerium is part of the government right? They had enough time to stop this mess before it went though the process but the didn't.

You have already conceded that point, so I won't bother with it.

You are making several mistakes in that post. First, you are confusing Felony with Straftat. Blasphemy is a vergehen, not a verbrechen, which would be the correct translation for felony.

11. Abschnitt - Straftaten, welche sich auf Religion und Weltanschauung beziehen (§§ 166 - 168).

Hmm I read Straftaten here and not Vergehen.

*Snort*. Do you know the difference between Straftat, Verbrechen und Vergehen? Apparently not, because you missed the whole point, or you know nothing about the law.

§ 12 Verbrechen und Vergehen
(1) Verbrechen sind rechtswidrige Taten, die im Mindestmaß mit Freiheitsstrafe von einem Jahr oder darüber bedroht sind.
(2) Vergehen sind rechtswidrige Taten, die im Mindestmaß mit einer geringeren Freiheitsstrafe oder die mit Geldstrafe bedroht sind.

Now, what is the minimal punishment for 166 StGB again? Or for 130, for that matter?

Come back when you understand that 166/130 is a Vergehen, which does not translate as felony, but as misdemeanor.

Yes I am alarmist here but some politicans e.g. Stoiber & friends want to tighten our blasphemy laws. The criminal complaint was based on § 130 Volksverhetzung - add some kopenhagen style riots and you might find a judge who willing to convict the author of a smiliar book.

Even if you find some judge like that, the case would be overturned by the OLG or BGH immediately. And I very much doubt a single judge would do something like that, or even consider the riots, since they would automatically be sachfremde erwägungen.

And where do you get Kopenhagen style riots from? The only once remotely resembling those are happening in Kreuzberg, and even they are happening because of different reasons and are negligible in scale.

So please stop being alarmist and get a reality check.

[Thanas]

Again, how is it newsworthy that "some" group file a criminal complaint that was so baseless that the court refused it to accept it? WTF are you trying to show here? Be alarmist about "secularism under attack in Germany?" If so, I wonder where you get that perception from.

I know you're just adopting Thunderfire's phrasing, but the case never even went to court. The public prosecutor saw no grounds for criminal charges (Source: Focus.de).

Ah, thanks. So not only does he not understand the difference between verbrechen and vergehen, but he also does not know about the difference between a court and the Staatsanwaltschaft.

Which law are you referring to? The "Gotteslästerungsparagraph" §166 StGB has, at the very least, lead to the successful ban of the "Maria-Syndrome". Even more recently, in 2006 a man in Lüdinghausen got one to five years probation for trying to sell toilet paper labeled quoran and calling the quoran a "cookbook for terrorists".

To be fair, there is little chance of anyone having to serve actual prison time.

I consulted my database, and you are correct. However, the quaran thingy would most likely also have been banned under the slander laws...and the maria syndrom actually went south because the guy who wanted to produce it admitted in court that his aim was to show "obscene and tasteless material". Now, I disagree with that particular judgement, but having read it, I think it was a fair judgement.

I still fail to see a general trend he is alleging to be happening.