The Borg vs the Zerg

[Shrykull]

What do you think? We don't know about how the zerg do against space ships. And they travel via wormholes according to a cut scene in starcraft.

[Darth Servo]

Zerg weapons have nothing to do with frequency or phase. The borg get mowed down like crazy.

[DesertFly]

Based on what we've seen of both sides' combat capabilities (both in game and through cutscenes for the Zerg), even the Zergling, the lowliest Zerg combat form, would be able to mow down a nearly infinite supply of drones in hand to hand. Space battle's a little trickier, since we don't know how the Zerg immune system would respond to nanoprobe injections. If they're anything like Species 8472, though, the Borg are completely screwed ground and air.

[Batman]

How, exactly, do nanoprobes figure into space combat? If memory serves the ONLY even implied use of nanoprobes in space battles was that incredibly stupid bomb from Scorpion, on all other occasions the Borg rely on technobabble and/or not all that impressive energy weapons just like everybody else in Trek does for space combat.

[Shroom Man 777]

The Borg actually outnumber the Zerg. The Zerg control just a sector of space.

[Sidewinder]

What do you think? We don't know about how the zerg do against space ships. And they travel via wormholes according to a cut scene in starcraft.

Don't you build full-sized warships and send them into battle against enemy fleets, e.g., Terran battlecruiser vs. Protoss carrier? The Zerg have their own warships, don't they? We can guess how well they'll do in space by observing their performance against the other powers' warships.

[Batman]

The Borg actually outnumber the Zerg. The Zerg control just a sector of space.

You ARE aware that is complete and utter garbage to begin with, remains garbage unless you can quantify how LARGE that sector is as opposed to the Borg controlled territory, and can show how much forces the Zerg have in that sector as opposed to the Borg in their territory.

[Peptuck]

Numbers of Zerg vs. Borg are almost irrelevant; the Zerg's space-based weapons capability consists of generally solid projectiles/parasites that would punch through Borg shields like paper, considering how weak they were to a collision with a single 8472 bioship.

On the ground or during boaridng actions, Zerg ground units would rip through the Borg like a flaming chainsaw through a wall of butter.

[Shroom Man 777]

You ARE aware that is complete and utter garbage to begin with, remains garbage unless you can quantify how LARGE that sector is as opposed to the Borg controlled territory, and can show how much forces the Zerg have in that sector as opposed to the Borg in their territory.

I can quantify that the Confederacy in StarCraft, along with the other Terran nations in the Korprulu Sector, encompasses just about a dozen major planets. And that official fluff (from the game itself) mentions that the major Zerg invasion of the Terran capital of Tarsonis merely numbered in the hundreds of thousands. Though I may be wrong on that last one.

[Axiomatic]

Of course, the Confederacy and the Korprulu sector represents a fairly small part of human holdings in the galaxy.

[Napoleon the Clown]

As far as space battle capabilities go, a handful of scourge are witnessed causing the crash landing of a Battlecruiser during a cutscene.

And then there's the breeding capacity. The little bastards spread at a truly prodigious rate. The Borg may have greater numbers at the get go, but the Zerg can send out their first wave in massive numbers. Two zerglings to an egg. Given that zerglings move at a very good clip and are quite agile, I'd say they'd butcher the Borg drones en masse, even if they didn't have a numerical advantage. Keep in mind that Worf can take out a fair number of Borg drones on his own using a nothing more than his knife. Zerglings are faster, meaner, and have multiple "knives".

Throw in the more... brutal... "troops" the Zerg have, and you can see how one sided it gets, even with the numbers going in favor of the Borg. A hydralisk isn't a massively powerful creature. Dangerous as hell, yes. But not a match for most other ground units. Against a borg drone, I'll take the hydralisk. They're mean, they spit needles as forcefully (if not more) as a marine's coilgun rounds, and they can burrow. Ambush tactics against zombies? Hell yes!

Start rolling out the heavy artillery (ultralisk) and it gets really bad for the Borg. Ultralisk may be relatively slow and clumsy, but they can take one hell of a beating. And they're still shown to be quicker than the damn Borg drones.

Tactic units such as the defiler (eat corrosive spores, mofo!) and the queen (spawn broodlings, anyone?) make for some very... interesting... challenges for the Borg. There's little to go on for the tactics Borg would try to employ against the abilities the tactical Zerg strains possess.

And the flier units would be downright lethal. The Borg don't show much promise with field troops are ranged weaponry, so a lone guardian could likely fuck over Borg ground forces effortlessly.

Zerg can also regenerate from almost anything shy of death. If you leave one drone alive you may well run into a full-blown infestation a week later. No need for other species to infect, either.

And then there's tactics. The Overmind made mistakes, yes. But it showed more tactical ability than the Borg have ever shown, to my knowledge. Keep in mind that the Zerg, under the Overmind, drove the Xel'Naga to near extinction, if not outright extinction.



Unless the Borg learn tactics or have a million to one advantage in numbers, I go with the Zerg. They're like giant monster cockroaches that will kill you (or enslave you, if you are "worthy") in the time it takes to blink. Killing them is no mean feat.

[Shroom Man 777]

Infested Borg Cube! Drones going "FOR THE OVERMIND!"

[Axiomatic]

Now that is a scary thought. From technozombies to exploding technozombies!

[Covenant]

From past humiliating debates I've discovered it's extremely difficult to pin down what the Blizzard folks call canon and it makes Starcraft nearly unquantifiable. However, I think it's safe to say that an 8 year old with a Louisville Slugger would be able to manhandle the Borg, so there's no reason to believe the Zerg would be capable of anything less, based on the fact they can at least survive rifle hits and cut through some kind of metallic substance with their claws. On the ground it's stupidly unbalanced. In space would probably be pretty bad too, since the Zerg could just fly into the damn thing and crawl inside. I don't know how they'd engage the Borg though. It depends, really, on when in the timeline you consider.

The Zerg are always in consuming mode, but they're relatively more benign and controlled under the Overmind, yet they have greater mobility and a stronger supply of lieutenants. Under Kerrigan or a rouge Cerebrate they're a lot less organized and far more violent due to their extremely twitchy nature if not well controlled. I would presume the Overmind would have a way better chance of orchestrating an attack on the Borg holdings, if for no other reason than it's extremely capable of transporting itself or it's zerg around in unmatched numbers.

[Axiomatic]

No, I think the Borg, as a race, could ultimately defeat the eight year old, if only because eventually one of them would fall over him and pin him down under the mass of metal in his body.

[ArmorPierce]

blizzard cannon don't exist. It changes on the whim as they see fit.

[Batman]

You ARE aware that is complete and utter garbage to begin with, remains garbage unless you can quantify how LARGE that sector is as opposed to the Borg controlled territory, and can show how much forces the Zerg have in that sector as opposed to the Borg in their territory.

I can quantify that the Confederacy in StarCraft, along with the other Terran nations in the Korprulu Sector, encompasses just about a dozen major planets. And that official fluff (from the game itself) mentions that the major Zerg invasion of the Terran capital of Tarsonis merely numbered in the hundreds of thousands. Though I may be wrong on that last one.

And assuming that is correct I happily agree. I was mainly reacting to your comment about the Zerg losing because they just control 'a' sector of space WITHOUT bothering to actually quantify what that means.

[brianeyci]

I wonder if people create threads like this in hopes of drawing out Borg wankers. The only way the Borg, who rely on melee combat, win against multi-ton monsters with horns and claws, is if you wank them furiously to extreme lengths. Maybe claim that the Borg when they explode spray blood full of nanites, or say the Borg would do a lot of crap they don't do canonically, like expose sections of their cubes to vacuum or use transporters to tactically excise brains.

Battle would probably happen like this. Overlords approach a cube, and the cube screams its mating call. The overlords penetrate the cubes fast and hard from all faces, and drop Zerglings, Hydralisk and the occasional Ultralisk. The cube is immediately rendered inoperable(*), and after many hours an enraged Borg Queen is forced to self-destruct the cube.

(*) - Does anybody find it odd that a Borg wanker would claim no serious damage could happen to a cube for some time, due to redundancy? Distributed systems are actually more vulnerable to assault as you can attack any single one point and render the entire system useless.

[Shroom Man 777]

blizzard cannon don't exist. It changes on the whim as they see fit.

I'm basing it on the game manual and those subtitles or whatnot that happens in the game, between missions and cinematics. Even those shitty novels adhere to THAT.

@ Batman:

I was a major StarCraft fluff geek a few years back, so I still remember a few things. Remember, unless I forget. Yes.

Anyway, StarCraft's war in the K-Sector happens over just a few planet. The biggest Zerg holdings are in/on the planet Char, where the epic final battle of StarCraft: Brood War happened, and also in Aiur, where the epic final battle of StarCraft happened. Char is under Kerrigan's control, while Aiur is filled with mostly rogue Zerg - unless something happened in post-Brood War novels or if things have changed by StarCraft 2.

It's not much compared to that patch of galaxy the Borg have, and their entire factory-worlds or such that I hear about.

[phred]

The question is, how well do the Zerg fight in space?

On the ground, its no contest. But the problem is theres very little quantification for what the power of Zerg space weapons is. They might be able to blow through Borg shields with no problem, or the Borg might be able to withstand their attacks indefinitely.

Are there any objective examples of Starcraft weapons fire anywhere to give us approximate min/max power levels?

[Zixinus]

The Borg has far more advanced technology. Flexible FTL, at least hundreds of energy weapons and the like in their memory alone. If they were just even remotely competent, the Zerg may have a very bad day to look forward to.

Then again, the Zerg did wipe out their masters and did serious damage to the Protos, whom too are a highly advanced race.

[Ghost Rider]

Ah Blizzard's unknown canon versus ST.

And look it was Shrykull with the fucking idiocy.

Locking because Blizzard's canon changes, and even then it's about as consistent as bad pudding in a bad Arizona summer.