Aquatain wrote:Still i think Lucas would have done better portraying the Jedi in some sort of heightened state of attention instead of smugness, at least it would make a more exiting film to watch.
The shots from the interior of Anakin and obi-wan spacecraft seem to slow down the overall excitement of the combat-scenes in ROTS, well at least i think so.
I agree with you, on the pace of the scene, but along with my other points, also remember that in the context of the story, a big problem with the Jedi of this time was smugness, as well as arrogance and over confidence. Yoda admonishes Mace and Obi-Wan on this point in AOTC. Anakin, along with being the pinnacle of Jedi power, is also the pinnacle of these traits. Obi-Wan gets pulled along for the ride.
I agree with you, But you're looking at from a in universe point of view while I'm talking about exiting scenes from a film making standpoint, The scenes inside the cockpits serve no real purpose other than they have to exposition why they are heading to the Iron hand, That could have been done in 10 seconds with Jedi smugness and all(if GL needed to really drive the point though) and all the rest could be shown from the exterior, giving it drive and intensity.
When you're making action scenes you really don't want anything to slow them down, Especially not big god damn all-out warfare.
P.S I would love if somebody with skills were to make a Vid showing the combat from ROTS without the inter cuts to the Cockpits.
There Lives More Faith In Honest Doubt,Belive Me,Than In Half The Creeds. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity."
A thought came to me while watching that clip. Considering the implication that if the ships hadn't pulled off early on they would have crashed into the shield, and that Lando and the fleet seem to be a lot closer to the Death Star once the shield drops, is it possible that the Imperials were going to use the Death Star shield as a sort of a wall or battering ram to smash against the Rebel fleet when its wedged between it and the Imperial fleet?
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."
I can see how that would work in theory but in practice, since they didn't try to herd the rebels towards the shield-they seemed to be perfectly content with the rebels milling about between the fleet and the DS and, to my knowledge, made no effort to drive the rebels towards the shield even when they started engaging the capital ships directly, while they may have been using the DS shield as a backstop to keep the rebels from escaping that way, I see no reason to assume the imperials ever intended to actually make the rebels smash into it.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
TC Pilot wrote:A thought came to me while watching that clip. Considering the implication that if the ships hadn't pulled off early on they would have crashed into the shield, and that Lando and the fleet seem to be a lot closer to the Death Star once the shield drops, is it possible that the Imperials were going to use the Death Star shield as a sort of a wall or battering ram to smash against the Rebel fleet when its wedged between it and the Imperial fleet?
I remember seeing a storyboard from ROTJ in some book some time ago (i think it was the Art of ROTJ but not sure), anyhow it showed a couple of ships not pulling op in time and smashing into the shield, So at least it was though of at some point in production.
There Lives More Faith In Honest Doubt,Belive Me,Than In Half The Creeds. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity."
Palpy wanted to use the Rebels to help turn Luke to the Dark side, so he would obviously want to drag out their deaths in the longest and most dramatic way possible.
We know from the ROTJ briefing that the cruisers would "create a perimiter" around the DS2, while the fighters flew into the DS2. Hiding the presence of the shield (if they extend the shield out far enough) can present an unknown hazard for the Rebels to blunder into unknowingly, which would be a huge initial psychological blow. Whereupon the Imperials make their pincer move (as outlined in the novelization) and trap them while the Death Star obliterates them.
For the record, its made clear in the movie and the novel that the Imperials not only have the Rebels outnumbered, but also outgunned (thats why Ackbar was concerned with getting into "point blank range") I imagine Han was not shocked by the presence of the Executor and its escorts because they expected there to be SOME defensive presence, and I suspect they also imagined the REbel fleet to be sufficient to wipe it out. (whicha lone suggests they brought more than the ships we saw onscreen - the Executor is supposed to be equal to scores or hundreds of ISDS remember.)
Also, there are many accounts of the Imperial force being a "pincer" coming from either side of the moon; this implies that the main body seen after "It's a trap!" may have a similar-scale counterpart approaching from the opposite side.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | LibertarianSocialist |
The Rebels thought they would catch the Empire by surprise. Since the shield was up, and the defensive fleet was moving to pin them in, it was clear the Empire was NOT surprised.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Every time i watch RoTJ, i am amazed by just how much they could do in the way of special effects back in the day. To me, that space battle doesn't look dated at all, except maybe the explosions. Something about the use of models actually makes it seem more real than the CGI you see in I,II, and III
Coyote: Warm it in the microwave first to avoid that 'necrophelia' effect.
Connor MacLeod wrote:There's more than just the novelization? I wasn't aware of that.
At least one of the new Essential Guides, with its crude gridmap battle lay-outs at the end of the book.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.
The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | LibertarianSocialist |
havokeff wrote:You can time it from the point the the Fleet jumps and when Leia says "The fleet will be here any second." It is certainly not seconds, but it isn't very damn long.
Curiously the Imperial Shield Generator view screen shows the fleet approaching while it is in hyperspace, which Leia appears to look at. That or it is sowing the Imperial Fleet, which isn't supposed to be there. Either one should have at least gotten a "whaitaminute..." out of Leia, because either A) The Empire learned how to track ships in hyperspace or B)The Rebel fleet is fucked.
I'm not sure if there was ever any definitive statement as to what ships were being shown in this scene, but I thought that the Rebels were able to track Imperial ships en route via hyperspace to Hoth, so there shouldn't be any surprise in that aspect afaik.
Lord Relvenous wrote:Every time i watch RoTJ, i am amazed by just how much they could do in the way of special effects back in the day. To me, that space battle doesn't look dated at all, except maybe the explosions. Something about the use of models actually makes it seem more real than the CGI you see in I,II, and III
I agree; there's just something about the CGI models that makes it look...well, fake.
havokeff wrote:You can time it from the point the the Fleet jumps and when Leia says "The fleet will be here any second." It is certainly not seconds, but it isn't very damn long.
Curiously the Imperial Shield Generator view screen shows the fleet approaching while it is in hyperspace, which Leia appears to look at. That or it is sowing the Imperial Fleet, which isn't supposed to be there. Either one should have at least gotten a "whaitaminute..." out of Leia, because either A) The Empire learned how to track ships in hyperspace or B)The Rebel fleet is fucked.
I'm not sure if there was ever any definitive statement as to what ships were being shown in this scene, but I thought that the Rebels were able to track Imperial ships en route via hyperspace to Hoth, so there shouldn't be any surprise in that aspect afaik.
No. The rebels were able to detect the Imperial Fleet coming out of hyperspace, not while they were in it, and only then because "Admiral Ozzel came out of lightspeed to close to the system."
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it. Blank Yellow (NSFW)
havokeff wrote:You can time it from the point the the Fleet jumps and when Leia says "The fleet will be here any second." It is certainly not seconds, but it isn't very damn long.
Curiously the Imperial Shield Generator view screen shows the fleet approaching while it is in hyperspace, which Leia appears to look at. That or it is sowing the Imperial Fleet, which isn't supposed to be there. Either one should have at least gotten a "whaitaminute..." out of Leia, because either A) The Empire learned how to track ships in hyperspace or B)The Rebel fleet is fucked.
I'm not sure if there was ever any definitive statement as to what ships were being shown in this scene, but I thought that the Rebels were able to track Imperial ships en route via hyperspace to Hoth, so there shouldn't be any surprise in that aspect afaik.
No. The rebels were able to detect the Imperial Fleet coming out of hyperspace, not while they were in it, and only then because "Admiral Ozzel came out of lightspeed to close to the system."
Ahh...that's right. My bad. I remembered it as being detected in transit and while exiting. Thanks.
