CO2 output must cease altogether, studies warn

[Enforcer Talen]

Wait till the droughts get bad. Youll be invading Oregon for its water.

[Xisiqomelir]

As a person from a Third World nation that has the potential to turn into a shithole, I am frightened of this. I am taking Nursing for college and will hopefully be in a position to immigrate for greener pastures in a couple of years.

With the American economy tanking, the biggest and most viable "greener grassy field" has withered and died. Where should I go next if I don't want to get Hotel Rwanda'd?

Nursing is a highly portable and in-demand skill, and America's still pretty good, imo. Of course I came from a truly awful hellhole, so I appreciate its good points a lot.

[WesFox13]

I have a feeling that we are offically screwed. I mean do you seriously expect people to stop pumping CO2 into the air. I don't think any of the 3rd world nations or China or India is going to stop any time soon. Neither will Europe, America or, hell any other nation on this Earth will stop.

So yeah, humanity has screwed itself over.

By the way, as soon as I finish College, I'm hoping to move North to Canada as soon as I can.

[Zablorg]

What will the future be like though? Will there be a small portion of the earth full of rich people that can afford the luxuries of life and the rest of the world struggling to survive, or will civilization collapse completely like in Surlethe's fic?

[Enigma]

I actually am a lucky bastard for being born in this country. Canada is going to have HUGE pressure on it to let in high amounts of immigration. The government better be careful though because they have already soured some people's attitudes on helping others when they have been more generous to people 'off the boat' then their own citizens. Especially after the exorbitant amount of taxes we generally pay.

They can't just open up the floodgates. A quota system or something similar will be necessary.

But even then there is still some bigotry against skilled immigrants. The federal government (quite possibly some of the provincial governments) advertise to other nations that there are jobs for skilled workers but when they come they are told that their qualifications are no good and end up as janitors, cabbies and so forth. Not only that but companies saying that they need "canadian experience" in order to hire a skilled foreigner. How can they get "canadian experience" if noone hires them?

[Ryan Thunder]

I actually am a lucky bastard for being born in this country. Canada is going to have HUGE pressure on it to let in high amounts of immigration. The government better be careful though because they have already soured some people's attitudes on helping others when they have been more generous to people 'off the boat' then their own citizens. Especially after the exorbitant amount of taxes we generally pay.

They can't just open up the floodgates. A quota system or something similar will be necessary.

But even then there is still some bigotry against skilled immigrants. The federal government (quite possibly some of the provincial governments) advertise to other nations that there are jobs for skilled workers but when they come they are told that their qualifications are no good and end up as janitors, cabbies and so forth. Not only that but companies saying that they need "canadian experience" in order to hire a skilled foreigner. How can they get "canadian experience" if noone hires them?

They aren't the only ones with this problem. Teenagers, regardless of their ability, are pretty well told simultaneously by everybody to "come back when they have experience."

So, in other words "We'll be happy to give you experience, once you already have it. Hey, why are you rolling your eyes like that? Was it something I said?"

[Guardsman Bass]

You know what is actually kind of the unfair aspect of catastrophic climate change? Most of the societies that caused a lot of it in the first place (the US, Western Europe, Japan, and so forth) also happen to be the ones who have the best chance of maintaining technological civilization, albeit with a degree of human suffering (assuming they don't collapse under the weight of refugees or war). Most of the Third Worlders end up fucked royally, whether from the effects of the climate change itself in terms of drought and flooding, or from being neighbors to societies that are directly fucked by climate change.

[Aaron]

But even then there is still some bigotry against skilled immigrants. The federal government (quite possibly some of the provincial governments) advertise to other nations that there are jobs for skilled workers but when they come they are told that their qualifications are no good and end up as janitors, cabbies and so forth. Not only that but companies saying that they need "canadian experience" in order to hire a skilled foreigner. How can they get "canadian experience" if noone hires them?

They have to pass whatever standards there are for their trade. A nurse from the Phillipines would have to meet whatever Provinces educational standards they move to. A lawyer would have to pass the bar, blah, blah, blah. You get the point.

There's a ton of doctors and nurses in Ottawa that had to do that. And half of the AECL staff in Chalk River are the same way.

[Enigma]

But even then there is still some bigotry against skilled immigrants. The federal government (quite possibly some of the provincial governments) advertise to other nations that there are jobs for skilled workers but when they come they are told that their qualifications are no good and end up as janitors, cabbies and so forth. Not only that but companies saying that they need "canadian experience" in order to hire a skilled foreigner. How can they get "canadian experience" if noone hires them?

They have to pass whatever standards there are for their trade. A nurse from the Phillipines would have to meet whatever Provinces educational standards they move to. A lawyer would have to pass the bar, blah, blah, blah. You get the point.

There's a ton of doctors and nurses in Ottawa that had to do that. And half of the AECL staff in Chalk River are the same way.

But that is not what is advertised to them. Why decieve them into coming into a country that won't recognise their qualifications? The easiest way to find out is test them before saying they are qualified or not. If they pass the test\exam then they qualify, if they fail then they'd have to take courses in order to qualify. To get them here then deny them a career they studied for is stupid. I've talked to a guy from Lebanon who was an architect there, came to Canada and couldn't get a job here because he didn't have "canadian experience". He said that he'd work for them for free for a couple of months and if they like his work they could hire them. They wouldn't even consider that! It would have been a perfect way to test his skills. But now he's a school bus driver.

To put in other words, why bother asking skilled foreigners to come to Canada and work in their fields of expertise and then deny them the opportunity and have them start all over? Why not look inside and try to get Canadians to improve their education and fill in the gap of skilled trades and the like? Test the immigrants, give them the Canadian seal of approval and let them do their jobs and not ensnare them.

[The Yosemite Bear]

So no breathing or decomposing?

[Broomstick]

But that is not what is advertised to them. Why decieve them into coming into a country that won't recognise their qualifications?

That's not unique to Canada. The immigrants to the US often encounter similar problems. It would not surprise me if that's the case in other countries as well.

I've talked to a guy from Lebanon who was an architect there, came to Canada and couldn't get a job here because he didn't have "canadian experience". He said that he'd work for them for free for a couple of months and if they like his work they could hire them. They wouldn't even consider that!

I don't know about Cananda, but here in the US it would have illegal for a company to have someone work for free, even if the person was willing. Even working at a reduced pay would most likely be illegal here, maybe it is there, as well.

But now he's a school bus driver.

In the US we have a lot of guys with PhD's driving cabs. I agree, it's a waste, but the laws favor those already here over those just coming in.

To put in other words, why bother asking skilled foreigners to come to Canada and work in their fields of expertise and then deny them the opportunity and have them start all over?

It's the conflict between wanting to bring in only intelligent immigrants and wanting to make sure those same foreigners don't out-compete the natives for jobs.

Why not look inside and try to get Canadians to improve their education and fill in the gap of skilled trades and the like?

Several reasons. One is that not everyone is suited to work of that sort. There's complacency among young people who live a pretty safe, secure, and cushy life compared to most of the world and thus are not as motivated to push themselves. The people born in a country are a cross-section of humanity both good and bad, whereas it tends to be only the most highly motivated that make it through the immigration process.

[Aaron]

I don't know about Cananda, but here in the US it would have illegal for a company to have someone work for free, even if the person was willing. Even working at a reduced pay would most likely be illegal here, maybe it is there, as well.

It's not really illegal. Such things are usually termed as internships or co-op if your a student.

[Aaron]

Ghetto edit: It's not really illegal in Canada.

[Broomstick]

Here in the US, I've never heard of a corporate internship that didn't involve pay. In academia there are non-paid positions, but since it's usually accompanied by tuition reduction or educational credit that's still considered compensation. Admittedly, I'm not an expert on labor law.

[Aaron]

Here in the US, I've never heard of a corporate internship that didn't involve pay. In academia there are non-paid positions, but since it's usually accompanied by tuition reduction or educational credit that's still considered compensation. Admittedly, I'm not an expert on labor law.

Actually disregard what I said. I thought my sister did it at KPMG but now I'm not sure.

[ray245]

Is it possible to adapt and sustain our technology development to cope and react to a earth with a increase of 4-5°C?

Push for more agro-farm and etc, where food can be grown in a controlled environment. Build or relocate cities to area where global warming can cause mininmun damage.


I don't think civilization will collaspe at all. As long as the leaders of most countries remain sane. In fact, the country that is most able to adapt to the new enivroment better will remain more or less intact.

Those that is willingly to make short term sacrifice will be able to cope to the sistuation.

The best case sceanrio we can hope for is each country try it's best to develope new ways to maintain their civilization without going into war, pushing for more and more ideas.

Peak oil? Solve it with finding a variety of other source, wind, solar, wave, to generate electricity.

Limit air travel in a continent...by pushing for high speed trains. Limit car ownership, promoting electric cars, and pushing for very well developed public transport.

Natural diasters? Keep pushing for a way to predict them accurately, flood, blizzard and etc. Those are not random events, it is simply because we lack enough data to predict them accurately.

Limit the damage natural diasters and etc, solve the damage done to crops by growing crops in a controlled enviroment.

Meanwhile, ensure that we do not increase earth's temperatures.

I find it too many people are focused on stopping global warming instead of finding ways to work AROUND global warming.

Yes, we still need to stop global warming to limit further damage, but we need to adopt more ways to work around an earth with a increased temperature.

[Broomstick]

I don't think civilization will collaspe at all. As long as the leaders of most countries remain sane. In fact, the country that is most able to adapt to the new enivroment better will remain more or less intact.

In fact, there will be some locations that are better off with global warming - just that in the end there will be fewer winners than losers in that sense.

Peak oil? Solve it with finding a variety of other source, wind, solar, wave, to generate electricity.

Limit air travel in a continent...by pushing for high speed trains. Limit car ownership, promoting electric cars, and pushing for very well developed public transport.

I'm more for developing an appropriate local response than issuing blanket statements. Mass public transport only works with a large population, for example, it's not useful in sparsely populated areas. In some areas electric transport may make sense, but in others it may not, or there may be better alternatives based on local resources. Biodiesel or natural gas/methane produced through biological processes will not be an adequate global substitute for petroleum but it may make sense for areas and industries where this can be easily refined from waste products (there are farms today, for example, that heat buildings and run machinery with the methane from decaying animal dung). Part of the reason we got into our current mess was over-reliance on just one solution: petroleum.

In some places we'll want to retain aviation, such as Alaska, where roads are few and difficult to construct or maintain. With melting permafrost, that will become even more problematic. Fortunately, much of Alaska's air travel is in small airplanes that could be easily converted to either ethanol or diesel if the regs were changed to allow for it - which they will be. Diesels have already been approved for a number of GA airplane types. We'll want to maintain air travel to islands, even if alternative fuels aren't quite as efficient.

It's interesting to think about oceanic shipping - could we imagine a scenario where sail would come back into use? Possibly with solar-powered computers to optimize and assist in their use, along with providing power for navigation and communication. A return to sail would not necessarialy be a return to the 19th Century.

Natural diasters? Keep pushing for a way to predict them accurately, flood, blizzard and etc. Those are not random events, it is simply because we lack enough data to predict them accurately.

That probably means retaining the ability to launch satellites, since it's satellites that enable things such as hurricane tracking.

solve the damage done to crops by growing crops in a controlled enviroment.

Please define "controlled environment" - I'm curious as to what, exactly, you mean by that.

I find it too many people are focused on stopping global warming instead of finding ways to work AROUND global warming.

True. At a certain point you have to admit the problem is here and start dealing with it.

[Tiriol]

It appears that I had the good sense to be born in a country that has high chances of surviving global warming and perhaps even avoiding (most of) the turmoil that follows when global warming enters the party along with its friend Peak Oil and their second-cousin Global Economic Depression.

However, we must not forget that even those places that will be better off than the Third World countries will have rather immense difficulties: the waves of refugees and sudden world-wide chaos cannot be good to ANY structured society.

[ray245]

In regards to a controlled environment, I will say a sealed building with climate control, like being able to control the amount of sunlight entering the building, yet at the same time, prevent any natural diaster from wrecking the prop.

A multi-storey building, that is able to provide enough sunlight to plants on every floor.

We could make use of agro-culture, using water or air to supply nutrients to the plants directly.

That way, it is possible to produce food with a minimun amount of space.

Didn't scientist keep saying how it is possible to create parks in space stations and etc?

Why not apply those technology and development directly onto earth instead?

Because we know we will not be able to build space parks in the near future, but we can build a controlled enviromental park or farm inside a building.


Most doomsday scenario is based on the assumption that humans will not do anything to cope to global warming and trying to fight over present day resources. Basically sit there and accept our fate.

Most people response to global warming is either it does not exist, or we must stop it even if global warming already started, or sit there and die.


Someone need to push for a movement to ensure people will developed new ways to work around global warming, new technology, new way of cultivation and etc.

That that is the correct path for us to take.

The most important damage done by global warming is mostly cultivation, or finding a alternative for fuel. This a another chance to push for more technological development, because countries and etc want to stay or be the top.

Competition in essence. Instead of starting a war, push for a friendly competiton of technology development.

[Broomstick]

Important to remember that even in best-case nations such as Finland and Canada there is a real possibility that the standard of living could plummet during global turmoil, interruption of steady energy supplies, disruption of food production/transportation, and so forth.

In the US there is currently the problem of inflation of food prices, which is linked directly to energy costs. Growing something like 3/4 of the nation's vegetables in California might have seemed like a good idea when transportation was cheap but now it's having consequences. Where I live I'm surrounded by farmland, but it's used for growing soybeans and corn, not vegetables. Given that my income will probably continue to be low through the rest of the year I am planning on a very practical vegetable garden in my own backyard (actually, south side of my residence) because food prices are rising and will continue to do so as long as fuel prices rise. One upside is that global warming will extend the growing season in my area, and being located in such close proximity to lake Michigan water shortage seems unlikely.

One of things that needs to happen is more varied growing practices. This is because areas "ideal" for growing a particular crop will likely change, and also because transporting food will become cost-prohibitive. There will continue to be a role for long-distance traveling items like coffee, tea, and spices but having 90% of food traveling the width of a continent is going to end. Out of season and non-local foods will go back to being luxuries.

[ray245]

Well...we could solve food tranportation issue if a controlled enviroment farm is able to grow foreign crops as well.

But this means there will be a decline in trade. Which is risky...

[brianeyci]

They aren't the only ones with this problem. Teenagers, regardless of their ability, are pretty well told simultaneously by everybody to "come back when they have experience."

So, in other words "We'll be happy to give you experience, once you already have it. Hey, why are you rolling your eyes like that? Was it something I said?"

Actually teenagers have no ability, but the reason they aren't hired easily isn't because of their ability or lack of. Most teenagers could do just as well in jobs that single mom does.

It's the fact managers know teenagers blow their money on Nintendo DS, don't pay rent, and don't have any responsibilities at all. If teenagers are being hired, it's because the economy is doing exceptionally well and managers can afford to hire extra workers. If they aren't, it's because everybody is tightening the belt and who are the first to go? People who don't really need the job, like teenagers. Managers are human beings too, well most of them, and they're acutely aware at that income bracket it is one or two paycheques away from eviction.

Whenever the minimum wage goes up, managers and owners of small business threaten to cut student jobs to make up for their full-timers.

[Broomstick]

Well...we could solve food tranportation issue if a controlled enviroment farm is able to grow foreign crops as well.

But this means there will be a decline in trade. Which is risky...

What do you mean by "controlled environment farm"?

[ray245]

Well...we could solve food tranportation issue if a controlled enviroment farm is able to grow foreign crops as well.

But this means there will be a decline in trade. Which is risky...

What do you mean by "controlled environment farm"?

A little bit like hydroponic or aeroponic( spelling?) farms. But different in a sense that the farm can be a multi-storey building.

Sunlight, temperature, humdity and amount of 'rainfall' can be controlled. Where enviromental factors for growing crops can be manipulated.

Crops can be grown even during winter and etc. That way, one does not need to find a fertile land to provide enough food.

A multi-storey farm can provide food for a entire city or etc. We can grow plants inside buildings for decoration, why can't we grow crops in a multi-storey building for food?

After all, if scientist say we can grow forest and etc inside a space station...why don't we just grow food inside a high-rise building?

[The Spartan]

After all, if scientist say we can grow forest and etc inside a space station...why don't we just grow food inside a high-rise building?

Because that's energy intensive and in the coming troubles, energy will be a very precious commodity.