Riots spreading in Tibet

[Pelranius]

Actually instruction in Tibetan public schools involves both Tibetan and Chinese. Though Tibetan is less emphasized at the secondary levels, from what my research tells me.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Actually instruction in Tibetan public schools involves both Tibetan and Chinese. Though Tibetan is less emphasized at the secondary levels, from what my research tells me.

I stand corrected then. So Tibetan has oil? Does that mean we can go liberate it now?

[Pelranius]

Well, China has nukes now.

And getting oil from the Himalayas is probably going to be as hard as getting it from the Arctic, if said oil exists in the first place.

On the other hand, this could become the world's next flashpoint once peak oil really sinks in.

[Sidewinder]

That aside, you do know that corruption in the Buddhist clergy in Thailand is quite rampant, and that they actually marched last year demanding a theocracy? It's disturbing as it is to see that sort of thing happen.

Can you please provide links to news reports on this?

[That NOS Guy]

Tell me how what I said isn't true?

Differing opinions are allowed on this site. Yet paradoxically there is a strong anti-Religious views as well. Recent topics like how much science will it take to destroy religion and a recent statement that many wish they could outlaw religion all together have come up.

Well reasoned opinions are allowed, and all are subject to scrutiny. Just because religion doesn't stand up well to it, doesn't mean that it's somehow being supressed.

Religious bashing happens even when the topic has little to nothing to do with religion, there have also been times when any insult against religion was taken on face value.

Yeah, it does, but how does lambasting a bunch of theocrats fall under the category of "senseless religion bashing"?

If anything good is said about religion bashing tends to come (I could probably post an article on the good work a Catholic Charity is doing and it would go down in flames within a day). Hell just look up my own thread from when I JOINED the Catholic Church to see my point.

That's because there's very often a darker side to things. SEE: Mother Theresa.

[Invictus ChiKen]

I dunno if I'd call it a Theocracy but here it is Link

[Invictus ChiKen]

That's because there's very often a darker side to things. SEE: Mother Theresa.

I'll agree with you there had a lot to do with me leaving. I'd had my doubts for months but I kept coming across one bad thing after another and refused to take 'shut up, pay, pray and obey' as an answer.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

That aside, you do know that corruption in the Buddhist clergy in Thailand is quite rampant, and that they actually marched last year demanding a theocracy? It's disturbing as it is to see that sort of thing happen.

Can you please provide links to news reports on this?

It's not quite a theocracy they were demanding, but it was one of many first steps. They demanded that Buddhism be the state religion, which obviously implies a lot of other things.

http://www.economist.com/PrinterFriendl ... id=9118682

[MKSheppard]

China will crush this ruthlessly. Nothing will be allowed to resist the CHinese; and they'll ship in tanks via that railroad they completed recently.,

[RedImperator]

China will crush this ruthlessly. Nothing will be allowed to resist the CHinese; and they'll ship in tanks via that railroad they completed recently.,

This is a given under ordinary circumstances, but the Olympics are in five months and the last thing China wants is a huge international embarrassment. If they can put this down with teargas, some well-placed beatings, and selective arrests, rather than Tienanmen: The Sequel, they'll do it.

[Invictus ChiKen]

This is a given under ordinary circumstances, but the Olympics are in five months and the last thing China wants is a huge international embarrassment. If they can put this down with teargas, some well-placed beatings, and selective arrests, rather than Tienanmen: The Sequel, they'll do it.

I'd forgotten about this, it might explain a lot of recent anti-China activity the locals are hoping to force China's hand.

[Invictus ChiKen]

It seems to be getting worse folks

Getting worse

This Buddhist site has lots of news on the events According to this site there are Protests in India and China is rolling out the tanks.

[Admiral Valdemar]

And of course, why shouldn't it? China, as stated, has to play nice, else face international condemnation which goes for a lot on the markets these days. The last thing they want is another Moscow. I expect this will also catch the eyes of those who are tired of chronic fuel and food shortages too, so this may just be the start of a long, agonising run-up to the Olympics. Not only do they have to curb industry to clear the air, literally, but now they have activists intent on using this show as their own personal soap box.

I'd hate to be the government in this mess.

[RedImperator]

I'd hate to be the government in this mess.

Hard to feel a ton of pity for them, though. Sow the wind and all that.

[Admiral Valdemar]

True enough. They went the totalitarian route and decided to interact with the world at large, who all have far more liberal mindsets for the most part.

Something will give. Total power, or the almighty, uh, euro.

[Adrian Laguna]

The whole situation in Tibet reminds me of a line from Life of Brian.

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

Same dammed thing, just replace 'Romans' with 'Chinese'.

[Sidewinder]

One source said late Friday that up to a third of the city may be on fire and that power lines had been cut.

Considering that fires can spread from Han-owned buildings to Tibetan ones, and that Tibetans will also need to use hospitals-- which MUST HAVE electricity to power x-rays and other vital instruments-- I wonder if the rioters realize how counterproductive their behavior is?

[Shroom Man 777]

Could the Chinese just step back and let the rioters ruin their own homes? And afterwards, point at them and laugh?

[Lusankya]

They could, but there's a decent number of Chinese (mostly from Sichuan, IIRC) in Tibet, and the Chinese government actually cares about them. Sort of.

[Adrian Laguna]

One source said late Friday that up to a third of the city may be on fire and that power lines had been cut.

Considering that fires can spread from Han-owned buildings to Tibetan ones, and that Tibetans will also need to use hospitals-- which MUST HAVE electricity to power x-rays and other vital instruments-- I wonder if the rioters realize how counterproductive their behavior is?

That's a silly question to ask. Rioting is, almost by definition, wild, illogical, uncontrolled, and, especially, counter-productive.

[Juubi Karakuchi]

For what my observations are worth, I do not think that an independant Tibet is desirable or even possible. Even if such an entity could be brought about, it's fate would be effective domination by one of the world's 'great powers', China, India, America and Russia being the prime suspects, regardless of the language in which such behaviour may be cloaked. If no one master emerges quickly, then the pretenders may resort to all manner of unpleasant measures to get their way. And in the end, Tibetans will only suffer.

I studied the wars of German unification for my MLITT, and the demands of some Tibetan Independance types seem horribly familiar. They don't just want the Tibetan Autonomous Region, but also a chunk of China proper that just happens to contain around 3 million 'ethnic Tibetans', which according to some sources is more than actually live in the TAR itself.

The biggest problem, I find, in trying to understand events such as these lies in finding the right information. One must sift through piles of exaggeration, misrepresentation, propaganda, and barefaced lies to discover the truth, if there is indeed only one truth.

[ray245]

I'm just scared that the international pressure will give the ultra-conservative group in the CCP even more power.

Hmm...I wonder if the firing was engineered by them somehow...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The biggest problem, I find, in trying to understand events such as these lies in finding the right information. One must sift through piles of exaggeration, misrepresentation, propaganda, and barefaced lies to discover the truth, if there is indeed only one truth.

At the core of all of this, quite frankly, it's just a vis a' vis between the Great Powers and Tibetans a sore excuse to have a card to play against each other. Nothing much more.

[Falkenhayn]

Reuters

China declares "people's war" to control Tibet

BEIJING (Reuters) - Chinese officials have declared a "people's war" of security and propaganda against support for the Dalai Lama in Tibet after riots racked the regional capital Lhasa, and some sources claimed the turmoil killed dozens.

Residents of the remote city high in the Himalayas said on Sunday that anti-riot troops controlled the streets and were closely checking Tibetan homes after protests and looting shook the heavily Buddhist region.

Two days ago Tibetan protesters, some in Buddhist monks' robes and some yelling pro-independence slogans, trashed shops, attacked banks and government offices and wielded stones and knives against police.

China has said at least 10 "innocent civilians" died, mostly in fires lit by rioters.

But an outside Tibetan source with close ties in Lhasa said that number was far too low. He cited a contact who claimed to have counted many more corpses of people killed in the riots or subsequent crackdown.

"He said there were 67 bodies in one morgue alone," the source told Reuters. "He saw it with his own eyes."

The self-proclaimed Tibetan government-in-exile in northern India has said some 30 people were killed in clashes with Chinese authorities. Beijing bans foreign reporters from freely reporting in Tibet, so the conflicting claims cannot be easily checked.

The convulsion of Tibetan anger at the Chinese presence in the region came after days of peaceful protests by monks and was a sharp blow to Beijing's preparations for the Olympic Games in August, when China wants to showcase prosperity and unity.

The monks took to the streets on Monday to mark the 49th anniversary of an earlier uprising.

The protest later spread to Chinese areas inhabited by Tibetans. Xiahe in Gansu province saw hundreds of monks and lay residents march in peaceful defiance, to judge from pictures sent to reporters.

Chinese authorities have now signaled a sweeping campaign to redouble security in the region and attack public support for the Dalai Lama, who fled into exile in 1959 after that year's failed uprising.

"This grave incident of fighting, wrecking, looting and burning was meticulously planned by reactionary separatist forces here and abroad, and its goal was Tibetan independence," a Saturday meeting of senior regional and security officials announced, according to the official Tibet Daily on Sunday.

"Fight a people's war to oppose separatism and protect stability ... expose and condemn the malicious actions of these forces and expose the hideous face of the Dalai clique to broad daylight."

The meeting was attended by Tibet's hardline Communist Party boss, Zhang Qingli, and senior central government security officials, and it strengthens signs that China has no patience with international calls for a lenient response to the riots.

Authorities have already set an ultimatum to rioters, urging them to hand themselves in to police by Monday midnight and gain possible clemency, or face harsh punishment.

The government has mobilized officially favored Buddhist monks to denounce the protests and the Dalai Lama, the Tibet Daily reported.

"The Party's policies on religious freedom have been very well observed," one said, according to the paper.

"But monks in a few monasteries don't study the scriptures well ... and coordinate from afar with the Dalai clique."

International pressure has mounted on China to show restraint. Australia, the United States and Europe have urged China to find a peaceful outcome, and Japan has expressed concern.

Lhasa residents contacted by telephone, including some who spoke relatively freely a day or two ago, were frightened and reluctant to say much even anonymously.

"There are police checking our homes and handing out warnings," said a shopkeeper who lives near the old Tibetan part of Lhasa that saw torrid rioting. "Now is not the time to talk."

The Dalai Lama earlier released a statement urging China not to use "brute force" against protests, and his representatives have said the charge that they organized the violent protests was ridiculous.

The Dalai Lama, who won the 1989 Nobel Peace Prize, has said he only wants greater autonomy for Tibet. To the great majority of Buddhist Tibetans, he remains a powerful and venerated figure.

[Zixinus]

Sounds like things are going to get messy soon. I'd hate to be there.