Terminator: Could Cameron have a baby?

[Zor]

I actually suspect that all Terminators can eat. In a cut scene (possibly not even filmed) of the original Terminator, Arnold's character ate a candy bar (paper and all). The idea was that he needed to nourish his living tissue.

HOW? It makes no sense. Did I forget to mention how fucking complex the systems required to make digestion and distribution of these products are?

The skin would consume some callories as is, vat grown or not (as well as producing amonia waste if Highschool biology serves me right) as well as at least Saliva. I don't see away around this, she will need some food lest her skin dies.

Besides, another issue that comes up with is waste disposal. In Vick's Chip, we see that a Terminator has lived with a human for some time, which means that he would have eaten a whole shitload of food to keep up appearences and that means that the food. Frankly, i would get a bit suspitious if someone left a big mess of chewed food in a toilet instead of a turd.

What model is River, anyway?

T-888

Zor

[Stark]

That's it, I'm watching it again. That sounds retarded: he slaughtered nearly the whole base, and if he did that from the doorway, the resistance are idiots.

[brianeyci]

They'd be COMPLETELY useless if they were as inhuman as some peopel assume, not just useless as "deep cover" agents but useless PERIOD.

The problem is Terminators are pretty useless already. Skynet could send in biological or chemical agents, or a guided bomb. The only way Terminators even make sense is if Skynet enjoys a personal kill, relishes in getting up close and riddling humans with bullets. In other words, they just have to look human enough to get in the middle of a refugee camp without attracting attention, then kill a lot of helpless people for fun. They are militarily useless, but that doesn't matter to Skynet. They're useful for Skynet's carnal desires.

None of what you mentioned, pissing, shitting, sleeping, is a sufficient condition for human organs or even realistic human behaviour. All of that could be faked. Even a relationship with a human woman doesn't convince me... some women like some strange fucking men, and many would live with a man who could get unlimited money from ATM's. It doesn't mean the Terminators would survive to a discerning eye, who knows about human looking killer robots. It doesn't mean that in general, Terminators can act as real humans especially over time.

You say Cameron can "turn on" and "turn off" her human-like behaviour, but you cannot deny that every Terminator we've seen on screen you can immediately identify as a Terminator, and not just because we're an audience watching a movie or TV show. The fake FBI Agent was a fucking freak, and the FBI guy immediately noticed something wrong with his reports and files... asked the question "what is he."

Reese tells Sarah about how realistic the Terminators are to scare her.

[Stark]

Frankly, the first movie shows that Terminators work just fine. That one guy could rape a whole base simply by surprise - slip in with some civilians (who can't tell) and take out a whole nest of humans with a single infiltrator, DESPITE being spotted instantly by dogs. That's a great result.

[18-Till-I-Die]

snip for space

Skynet may not have even known where the TechCom bases were. Most were underground and i get the distinct impression Skynet had only a passing familiarity with where these Resistance fighters were emerging from; the battle at the beginning of T2, with the Terminators so close to the TechCom base and yet not actually heading towards it, gave me the impression that they really weren't aware it was a base. I mean, one pile of rubble looks like every other pile of rubble. Combine that with the fact that the number of "free" humans is probably incredibly small (they'd find it impossible to hide anything more than a few thousand or tens of thousands at most) and that vast amounts of infrastucture was lost in the war and Skynet may have literally had no other choice but to chase down leads.

THAT is what Terminators are useful for, following the humans, gaining their trust, "Hey, can you take me back to your base?" and all that.

But even then, you still cant deny the fact that we have seen two (three, maybe) Terminators eat, sleep, we know they can fuck and that means they have some kind of bodily fluids (no, i dont believe a woman would NOT notice a guy going in and coming out bone dry, and neither do you, admit it) and more importantly if you are saying that Kyle Reese is bullshitting then you're wrong...we've seen Terminators do all the things he described: bleed, sweat, and other stuff like eat, sleep (faking it), fuck, and probably use the can a few times too. We know they can hold conversations and even fake human emotion, and in fact they can, with minimal exposure, even UNDERSTAND those emotions to a limited degree. One could even argue that Uncle Bob's "I can not self terminate" was his way of subtly saying "I dont want to commit suicide, can you do it for me?" without bitching up.

More so, some things that Cameron has done indicate to me, at least, that she both understands human emotion and can express it if she chooses to. She doesnt because she doesnt care to, it's not relevent and it's a waste of processing power right now. Considering how wanktastic their AIs are is it really that bizarre.

And then we still go back to the whole organic skin thing. Where is the blood coming from? It cant be stagnant or i'd begin to decay so it's being replaced and recycled like human blood...by what? Is it being filtered for poisons too? Rather likely i'd think, so a liver is a possibility as is a heart. And a stomach, and some digestive systems and functional sexual organs. Really i dont understand what all the tizzy here is. All of these things i just mentioned are all well within the realm of possibility and plausability, when you accept the conceit of a time traveling, hyper-advanced, AI driven, fusion powered cyborg assassin in the first place. This is like saying "Does Darth Vader have to pee?" well, yes of course he does, by some mechanical means. So? Is it just that people have trouble accepting that they could be so easily emulated by a machine? I understand it's creepy to think that, for all practical purposes, a machine could pass completely for a human but it's meant to be creepy.[/quote]

[weemadando]

It was my impression that the "infiltrator" T-800 models (up until Sarah Connor Chronicles at least) only had to pass inspection for a few hours at a time, just long enough to hook up with some fighters/refugees, find a bunker complex/hide and get as far in as possible before lighting the place the fuck up and calling in the reinforcements.

Lets face it. The big problem that Skynet has isn't killing the fucking humans, but finding them. Thus, even if one can just get inside the front door before being detected, the next 1000 fucking terminators can easily smash their way in and through it.

It's entirely possible that the T-888 has a different endoskeleton design to accommodate long-term infiltration options. Such as you know, allowing eating and shitting. But having a baby is still strictly off the cards.

[Stark]

That's what the one in T1 did: followed some dudes back to base (probably saying 'got any food' or 'I need to sleep') and then hosed everyone to death.

[Shroom Man 777]

The novelization, I think, makes mention of a rudimentary circulatory system and a mighty system of organs (not rly, it's also rudimentary) that exists just to keep the flesh living.

[Peptuck]

They'd be COMPLETELY useless if they were as inhuman as some peopel assume, not just useless as "deep cover" agents but useless PERIOD.

The problem is Terminators are pretty useless already. Skynet could send in biological or chemical agents, or a guided bomb. The only way Terminators even make sense is if Skynet enjoys a personal kill, relishes in getting up close and riddling humans with bullets. In other words, they just have to look human enough to get in the middle of a refugee camp without attracting attention, then kill a lot of helpless people for fun. They are militarily useless, but that doesn't matter to Skynet. They're useful for Skynet's carnal desires.

This is actually my personal theory behind a lot of the behavior of the Terminators, especially in SCC. Between Cromartie's one-liners and that mindfuckery going on in that prison house, I'm fairly certain that Skynet's Terminators are programmed to fuck with people' heads. Hell, Derek himself says that its all just a "game" when he finds the hatchet they left behind to free those captured resistance fighters, and Cromartie being a complete asshole who enjoys proving his superiority is the only reason I can think of for him to not shoot Ellission at the end of the season finale.

Either that, or he just really liked his door.

[Zablorg]

I'm not sure that a BO thing would have to be organic; there might be a mechanism that produces pheremones artificially and then pumps them out through the pores. On the other hand, that would require a large system that connected to the outside of the skin, which we don't see in a naked terminator.

I'm wondering how Cromartie is keeping his new eyes from rotting...

[weemadando]

Or it could just be a little series of aerosol cans that can pump out a burst as appropriate.

[MJ12 Commando]

I'm not sure that a BO thing would have to be organic; there might be a mechanism that produces pheremones artificially and then pumps them out through the pores. On the other hand, that would require a large system that connected to the outside of the skin, which we don't see in a naked terminator.

I'm wondering how Cromartie is keeping his new eyes from rotting...

'

Magic. Either that or a serious amount of self-surgery, assuming he has a circulatory system. Does he? I don't think he does anymore.

[Tsyroc]

It was my impression that the "infiltrator" T-800 models (up until Sarah Connor Chronicles at least) only had to pass inspection for a few hours at a time, just long enough to hook up with some fighters/refugees, find a bunker complex/hide and get as far in as possible before lighting the place the fuck up and calling in the reinforcements.

Lets face it. The big problem that Skynet has isn't killing the fucking humans, but finding them. Thus, even if one can just get inside the front door before being detected, the next 1000 fucking terminators can easily smash their way in and through it.

It's entirely possible that the T-888 has a different endoskeleton design to accommodate long-term infiltration options. Such as you know, allowing eating and shitting. But having a baby is still strictly off the cards.

With the Terminator in the first movie I had originally thought that his outer flesh was only good for a very short period whether he was injured or not. I didn't think that the whole rotting smell ("Hey buddy. You got a dead cat in there?") was just because the flesh had been damaged. Also, to me that seemed more technologically feasible than perpetually living flesh over a robotic endoskeleton.


Obviously by T2 the flesh lasts longer than a few days and can repair some damage.

By the time we get to Cameron she's lasting a long time and repairing lots of damage here and there. It'll be interesting if they have to go into some in depth repairs on her like Cromartie did to himself.

[brianeyci]

Skynet may not have even known where the TechCom bases were. Most were underground and i get the distinct impression Skynet had only a passing familiarity with where these Resistance fighters were emerging from; the battle at the beginning of T2, with the Terminators so close to the TechCom base and yet not actually heading towards it, gave me the impression that they really weren't aware it was a base. I mean, one pile of rubble looks like every other pile of rubble. Combine that with the fact that the number of "free" humans is probably incredibly small (they'd find it impossible to hide anything more than a few thousand or tens of thousands at most) and that vast amounts of infrastucture was lost in the war and Skynet may have literally had no other choice but to chase down leads.

THAT is what Terminators are useful for, following the humans, gaining their trust, "Hey, can you take me back to your base?" and all that.

1. You're just giving another reason why Terminators don't need to be very human to be useful. Hiding in a group of refugees and keeping to yourself, then following them to a refugee camp requires minimal human interaction.

2. I believe in other threads, it was concluded human fighters numbered in the millions, with population in the tens to hundreds of millions. Thousands is not enough to overwhelm Skynet's immense advantages. Terminators would have insane killing ratios, hundreds to one at the least, and perhaps thousands to one, given the only weapons that could hurt Terminators would be Westinghouse plasma weapons or high explosives. Humans would be everywhere.

3. Skynet has plenty of choice. You underestimate the amount of choice available to a military when things like rules of war go out the window. First of all, we are talking about skinned Terminators. There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't track people with non-skinned Terminators. Human militaries track other militaries wearing their own uniform, not donning the uniform of their enemies like spies. Secondly, there's plenty of technologies that could be used to track humans without resorting to growing human skin.

But even then, you still cant deny the fact that we have seen two (three, maybe) Terminators eat, sleep, we know they can fuck and that means they have some kind of bodily fluids (no, i dont believe a woman would NOT notice a guy going in and coming out bone dry, and neither do you, admit it) and more importantly if you are saying that Kyle Reese is bullshitting then you're wrong...we've seen Terminators do all the things he described: bleed, sweat, and other stuff like eat, sleep (faking it), fuck, and probably use the can a few times too. We know they can hold conversations and even fake human emotion, and in fact they can, with minimal exposure, even UNDERSTAND those emotions to a limited degree. One could even argue that Uncle Bob's "I can not self terminate" was his way of subtly saying "I dont want to commit suicide, can you do it for me?" without bitching up.

This is easily explained as Cameron being a special model. Firstly, everybody here is wrong when they say Cameron is a T-888. Crom is a T-888 and Cameron's model is unknown. Secondly, your argument is that too many people underestimate the human qualities of Terminators. Given that most Terminators are... non-skinned, the foot soldiers we see in T3... it seems to me that you overestimate the human abilities of Terminators. Without the skin, they can't do shit. Most Terminators also have the learning block.

And then we still go back to the whole organic skin thing. Where is the blood coming from? It cant be stagnant or i'd begin to decay so it's being replaced and recycled like human blood...by what? Is it being filtered for poisons too? Rather likely i'd think, so a liver is a possibility as is a heart. And a stomach, and some digestive systems and functional sexual organs. Really i dont understand what all the tizzy here is. All of these things i just mentioned are all well within the realm of possibility and plausability, when you accept the conceit of a time traveling, hyper-advanced, AI driven, fusion powered cyborg assassin in the first place. This is like saying "Does Darth Vader have to pee?" well, yes of course he does, by some mechanical means. So? Is it just that people have trouble accepting that they could be so easily emulated by a machine? I understand it's creepy to think that, for all practical purposes, a machine could pass completely for a human but it's meant to be creepy.

Well, like Tsyroc I originally thought the skin was an ad-hoc measure which would rot after a few days. Later on, they got better. Darth Vader has to pee is not a good example at all, since he was originally human. The reason why all the things you mentioned are not within the realm of possibility to most is evidence like weedmando posted -- a huge dialysis machine. You can't simply pluck single organs out like that and say a Terminator should have A B and C just because it has skin. The human body is interdependent. Next we'll say the Terminators must have bone marrow to generate white blood cells.

[Anarchist Bunny]

What model is River, anyway?

T-888

Zor

Negative, the T Triple 8 that killed the Resistance fighters identified her as an Unknown model.

I initially thought that she was a model made by John Conner, using that T-888 brain, that then got sent back in time again(no more of a paradox than John Conner sending his father back in time to protect his mom and conceive him) and she doesn't want to destroy it because of that reason. But then she made a comment about being built at the bomb shelter where they locked up another T-888. Technically that could still work, she was built as that model before being reprogrammed and made from pieces of other damaged models, but makes the whole thing far too convoluted

[Shrykull]

She may have an organic cunt grafted onto her metal chassis to give John something to while away the hours with, but the entire design philosophy of the terminators makes it quite FUCKING CLEAR that they do not have the pointless squishy internal organs.

No, didn't you in the second ep of Sarah Connor Chronicles where he gets the organs?

[JGregory32]

Cameron is probably a specially designed infiltration model. All the other terminator models we have seen have been:
1 Male
2 Possesed a Massive Physical Frame
3 Were not very flexable for the most part.
Cameron's frame on the other hand is female, a very small and slight female at that, and flexable enough to fool a professional ballet dancer and then perform high level ballet herself.
All of these point towards a specialized infiltration model, probably the equivalent of a deep cover operative.
As for the T-888 reading unknown when he scaned Cameron, it simply ment that she didn't fit the parameters of a known target.

As for why Skynet uses terminators to root out humans instead of using chemical and biological weapons, the answer is clear. Workcamps.
Skynet workcamps are mentioned several times, now the question becomes "Why does a machine god with vast manufacturing cababilites need workcamps?"
Other than the obivious Terminator/Nazi connection here's another one. What if Judgement day did more damage than most people assume?
A nuclear strike would be aimed at major industrial and military centers. It would not be aimed at major population centers, after all your going to need someone to rebuild the nation you just nuked.
So, we have a world where the major players, US and Russia in the movies, US and China in the Sarah Conner Chronices, have almost zero manufacutring and military capibilites. Cameron also mentioned that the material Terminator endoskeletons are created out of is rare in the future.
This all adds up to skynet being a limited continential power rather than the world spanning juggernaut that most people assume.

Still the question remains about what the rest of the world is doing, an exchange of nuclear weapons between two superpowers could have resulted in the other nations of the world launching theirs as well.
Pakistan and India trade nukes, Isreal nukes the entire middle east, Russia nukes parts of Europe, and France and Britian nuke Russia.
The only places not nuked would have probably been Africa, Australia and South America. When we factor in the fallout from this round of MAD we find that not many places arn't glowing in the dark, meaning limited food and material resources.
In fact I'm surprised that SkyNet even has to fight the Humans, it could just wait for the radiation and fallout to kill them all off.

[Lord_Xerxes]

What model is River, anyway?

I believe...that she said she was a "Triple-Eight" or mentioned it once; considering it's dangerously close to saying "Triple H" i found that rather humorous in retrospect.

Hahah. <3 HHH. No, her model isn't the T-888's. They are refered to as the one chasing Derek, and I think Cromartie. One of the promo posters that they have up, which is my current desktop, is a scan of her and it has some of the Terimnator HUD text on the right hand side. It says "Subject: Terminator. _Class TOK715. Body Guard of _John Connor. Levle 1 threat. _Non Priority."

But I do find your analogy of Terminator's to Triple H humerous, as I long ago made the same and used the T2-Xtreme DVD to terminize a pic of him, which I use as my avatar on another forum. Ironically enough, when HHH return recently, WWE mag ran a photo shoot doing basically the same, with a battle-damaged terminator look to him.

The only link I could find was from ebay. Sorry 18 Till I die.

link here[/url]

[Lord_Xerxes]

Something else potentially worth mentioning are the several mentions in the series about the blood that is found by the FBI guy (Ellison I think it was?) at the crime scene in the safe house isn't human/correct in some way (It's Cromartie's), and it's a reoccuring thing he keeps bringing up as he starts to learn more and more about Cromartie as the series progresses/learns that he isn't human and that Sara isn't infact a looney.

I can't recall the exact quote about the blood, but perhaps someone else will?

Whatever living systems they do or do not have/are mimicking, it obviously isn't perfect. But the last two episodes definetly spoke volumes about just how far they can go towards appearing human. As perviously mentioned, that particular Terminator is married for quite some time with a woman, drinks, eats, and fucks with her. I'm assuming that in order to pull the whole shin-dig off, he'd likely also have to relieve himself, blow his load, and possibly even feign illness in order to keep that act up, as other had mentioned. So however far it goes with what they do have to do these processes/mimick them, it would have be somewhat extensive to give that level of cover.

Let's not forget that Cameron was going to school and fooling everyone for an indeterminable amount of time before running into John, not the least of which was John himself when the first met. How long was she waiting back in that time for him?

[Kojiro]

Don't terminators weigh a fair bit? In T3 I think it's some firefighters or paramedics that try to move Arnie and one of them comments he weights a ton. While I could see prolonged contact with a canny terminator as possible, I can't believe anyone could fuck one and not notice a) the horribly different skeleton and b) the weight difference. I don't know how much Cameron is supposed to weigh but it's got to be a noticeable step up on Summer Glau's actual weight.

[Stark]

I could throw Summer Glau out the window with one hand: damn straight people would notice.

But I bet she's a special magical type of Terminator invented especially for Neighbours.

[Shroom Man 777]

In Terminator, the first movie, when Ahnuld was killing Sarah's friend's naked boyfriend, the boyfriend was able to send the Terminator tumbling or something. Either Ahnuld tripped on the guy's sheets, or the guy was able to tackle him or something, but he's not THAT heavy. Likewise in T2, where he was able to ride a bike without slowing it down like a heavy fatty on a Harley.

'sides, in T2, Ahnuld was an up-armored T-800, an 850 designed to withstand plasma weaponry. With an exploding power core, too!

[weemadando]

Don't terminators weigh a fair bit? In T3 I think it's some firefighters or paramedics that try to move Arnie and one of them comments he weights a ton. While I could see prolonged contact with a canny terminator as possible, I can't believe anyone could fuck one and not notice a) the horribly different skeleton and b) the weight difference. I don't know how much Cameron is supposed to weigh but it's got to be a noticeable step up on Summer Glau's actual weight.

I'd say that the T-888s are probably a super-lightweight model. Either that or the one with the wife probably was on the bottom all the time. And had a seriously sturdy bed.

[Zablorg]

They appear to be fairly heavy, considering that one managed to stop a car without slipping in his combat boots.

[weemadando]

For sustained infiltration operations a lightweight or super-lightweight model would be essential, otherwise it would become difficult explaining why a regular looking guy is constantly falling through stairs and floors, breaking couches and chairs when he sits on them and leaves a 2" deep footprint in any parkland he crosses.