The winner of the most delegates and popular votes should be nominee. Why the hell did it take so long for us to come to this conclusion? Bear with me this is my first election voting as a Democrat. Can someone get me a rulebook or something?
linky-poo
Nancy Pelosi Makes Sense
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
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Col. Crackpot
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Nancy Pelosi Makes Sense
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
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The Yosemite Bear
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Because certain people don't want another Jimmy Carter who was nominated and elected entirely on populist vote, following the scandal filled Nixon/Agnew/Ford administration. Think of it, Gerald Ford, the only president that never was elected to either president or Vice President....
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
God forbid if the electorate gets the shithead it elects.The Yosemite Bear wrote:Because certain people don't want another Jimmy Carter who was nominated and elected entirely on populist vote, following the scandal filled Nixon/Agnew/Ford administration. Think of it, Gerald Ford, the only president that never was elected to either president or Vice President....
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Guardsman Bass
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The idea is that primary voters and general election voters are not the same thing - primary voters are generally much more ideological, although with a Republican who depended heavily on independents and a democrat that needed them (Obama), that may not be as much the case.
I mean, just take Barry Goldwater in 1964. He basically flew in on wings of glory to the Republican Convention much to the chagrin of the moderate wing of the Republican Party on the backs of the newborn grassroots Conservatism movement - and he got eaten alive in the general election.
At least theoretically, super-delegates are there to ensure that the Democratic equivalent of a Barry Goldwater (someone who is widely appealing to a large number of Democrats but will get slaughtered in the general election) never occurs. It sucks, and you can blame it on the electorate's stupidity - but it's there.
I mean, just take Barry Goldwater in 1964. He basically flew in on wings of glory to the Republican Convention much to the chagrin of the moderate wing of the Republican Party on the backs of the newborn grassroots Conservatism movement - and he got eaten alive in the general election.
At least theoretically, super-delegates are there to ensure that the Democratic equivalent of a Barry Goldwater (someone who is widely appealing to a large number of Democrats but will get slaughtered in the general election) never occurs. It sucks, and you can blame it on the electorate's stupidity - but it's there.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
-Jean-Luc Picard
"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
And yet, the whole idea of a primary is for the electorate of that party to choose who they want to run in an election. The powermongers can spin it all they want, but it still stinks when it comes out the other side.Guardsman Bass wrote:The idea is that primary voters and general election voters are not the same thing - primary voters are generally much more ideological, although with a Republican who depended heavily on independents and a democrat that needed them (Obama), that may not be as much the case.
I mean, just take Barry Goldwater in 1964. He basically flew in on wings of glory to the Republican Convention much to the chagrin of the moderate wing of the Republican Party on the backs of the newborn grassroots Conservatism movement - and he got eaten alive in the general election.
At least theoretically, super-delegates are there to ensure that the Democratic equivalent of a Barry Goldwater (someone who is widely appealing to a large number of Democrats but will get slaughtered in the general election) never occurs. It sucks, and you can blame it on the electorate's stupidity - but it's there.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Keevan_Colton
- Emperor's Hand
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Yes? And so what?Knife wrote:And yet, the whole idea of a primary is for the electorate of that party to choose who they want to run in an election. The powermongers can spin it all they want, but it still stinks when it comes out the other side.Guardsman Bass wrote:The idea is that primary voters and general election voters are not the same thing - primary voters are generally much more ideological, although with a Republican who depended heavily on independents and a democrat that needed them (Obama), that may not be as much the case.
I mean, just take Barry Goldwater in 1964. He basically flew in on wings of glory to the Republican Convention much to the chagrin of the moderate wing of the Republican Party on the backs of the newborn grassroots Conservatism movement - and he got eaten alive in the general election.
At least theoretically, super-delegates are there to ensure that the Democratic equivalent of a Barry Goldwater (someone who is widely appealing to a large number of Democrats but will get slaughtered in the general election) never occurs. It sucks, and you can blame it on the electorate's stupidity - but it's there.
Thanks to the Electoral College system, technically the peoples votes in the election don't really mean shit either...so it's really just getting in the spirit of things.
"Prodesse Non Nocere."
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
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Coyote
- Rabid Monkey
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Tongue-in-cheek alert, first:
But we've all seen how it works-- in a Primary season, you appeal to the "base", which is a polite way of saying "the really motivated whackjobs that keep the lights on when there isn't an election". In the Republican party, that means the people that stand in front of Planned Parenthood clinics in Dogpaw, Alabama in -10C weather to protest aborting Jesus's fetus unless it's a gay black child; in the Democratic party that means the people who have love-ins on the front yard of Bush's Crawford, TX ranch in +45C weather to protest the Iraq war's ruining of Spotteed Owl humping.
So the Democrats are trying to use Superdelegates to put the brakes on at the last minute bey saying "Okay, we've all had our fun. Now, who can we really put up against the Repubs that'll win?" The end result is, the Democrats put up someone that doesn't really motivate their base, whereas the Repubs field their highly motivated (and motivating, for them) wild-eyed idealogue. End result? Republicans are motivated to vote for their chosen nut; Dems look at theirs and go, "meh".
More seriously, though, this year we have the opposite. Hillary has been "the chosen one" for the last couple of years, and the press has swirled around the idea that she was "inevitable" and so the Party bigwigs invested a lot in her. It would be foolish to assume that the higher-ups in the Democratic Party (Pelosi included) haven't at some point all gotten together to best strategize how to help Clinton reach the goal-- like her or not, she was their champion in the arena.
So now, by Pelosi coming out and saying "lets go with the voters" she's telling the Superdelegates that they're abandoning "the Clinton Plan" and going with "Democracy". Hillary, even though she was the front runner (by assumption) for so long, was known to stir only lukewarm support among Democrats and to be the target of choice for Republicans. But with no one else on the horizon, they cowboy'd up on her behalf to do the best they could.
Since then, however, Obama has burst on the scene and provided an alternative, one that the Democratic Party (despite their planning) has to admit is more appealing. He's displayed staying power and Hillary has become more of an embarrassment as time wore on, so the folks on the ivory tower are saying its okay to take the lifeboats from the SS Hillary and row towards the SS Obama.
Howard Dean, chair of the DNC, most certainly discussed this with Pelosi beforehand; she's testing the waters because something like this had to come from a powerful Democrat Female and not a powerful Male of any stripe (since Hillary is so adept at turning any criticisms of her into a misogyny rant).
Hillary's powerful backers, the ones who invested in her, are starting to make open hints that they're willing to throw her to the wind.
But we've all seen how it works-- in a Primary season, you appeal to the "base", which is a polite way of saying "the really motivated whackjobs that keep the lights on when there isn't an election". In the Republican party, that means the people that stand in front of Planned Parenthood clinics in Dogpaw, Alabama in -10C weather to protest aborting Jesus's fetus unless it's a gay black child; in the Democratic party that means the people who have love-ins on the front yard of Bush's Crawford, TX ranch in +45C weather to protest the Iraq war's ruining of Spotteed Owl humping.
So the Democrats are trying to use Superdelegates to put the brakes on at the last minute bey saying "Okay, we've all had our fun. Now, who can we really put up against the Repubs that'll win?" The end result is, the Democrats put up someone that doesn't really motivate their base, whereas the Repubs field their highly motivated (and motivating, for them) wild-eyed idealogue. End result? Republicans are motivated to vote for their chosen nut; Dems look at theirs and go, "meh".
More seriously, though, this year we have the opposite. Hillary has been "the chosen one" for the last couple of years, and the press has swirled around the idea that she was "inevitable" and so the Party bigwigs invested a lot in her. It would be foolish to assume that the higher-ups in the Democratic Party (Pelosi included) haven't at some point all gotten together to best strategize how to help Clinton reach the goal-- like her or not, she was their champion in the arena.
So now, by Pelosi coming out and saying "lets go with the voters" she's telling the Superdelegates that they're abandoning "the Clinton Plan" and going with "Democracy". Hillary, even though she was the front runner (by assumption) for so long, was known to stir only lukewarm support among Democrats and to be the target of choice for Republicans. But with no one else on the horizon, they cowboy'd up on her behalf to do the best they could.
Since then, however, Obama has burst on the scene and provided an alternative, one that the Democratic Party (despite their planning) has to admit is more appealing. He's displayed staying power and Hillary has become more of an embarrassment as time wore on, so the folks on the ivory tower are saying its okay to take the lifeboats from the SS Hillary and row towards the SS Obama.
Howard Dean, chair of the DNC, most certainly discussed this with Pelosi beforehand; she's testing the waters because something like this had to come from a powerful Democrat Female and not a powerful Male of any stripe (since Hillary is so adept at turning any criticisms of her into a misogyny rant).
Hillary's powerful backers, the ones who invested in her, are starting to make open hints that they're willing to throw her to the wind.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Why do you hate women?Howard Dean, chair of the DNC, most certainly discussed this with Pelosi beforehand; she's testing the waters because something like this had to come from a powerful Democrat Female and not a powerful Male of any stripe (since Hillary is so adept at turning any criticisms of her into a misogyny rant).
Are you scared of a strong, capable, intelligent, principled woman such as Hillary?
Seriously though, you're right.
At work I've learned to let the female Obama supporters argue with the female Hillary supporters in lunchroom discussions as I've been accused of being sexist for opposing HRC.
Though I guess the silver lining is that people I've never seen evidence any interest in politics are arguing for their candidate of choice this year.
If this translates into a high turnout, we could be looking at the Repubs going down in flames quicker than the Hindenburg.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Oderint dum metuant
Oderint dum metuant
What response do you get if you a) just call "bullshit" on being called sexit, or b) point out that they're racist by that same token?Glocksman wrote:Why do you hate women?Howard Dean, chair of the DNC, most certainly discussed this with Pelosi beforehand; she's testing the waters because something like this had to come from a powerful Democrat Female and not a powerful Male of any stripe (since Hillary is so adept at turning any criticisms of her into a misogyny rant).
Are you scared of a strong, capable, intelligent, principled woman such as Hillary?
Seriously though, you're right.
At work I've learned to let the female Obama supporters argue with the female Hillary supporters in lunchroom discussions as I've been accused of being sexist for opposing HRC.
Though I guess the silver lining is that people I've never seen evidence any interest in politics are arguing for their candidate of choice this year.
If this translates into a high turnout, we could be looking at the Repubs going down in flames quicker than the Hindenburg.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
I get the 'You don't know what you're talking about' look.
Keep in mind that I work at a TJX distribution center and the women I'm talking about are on average both older and less (HS graduate or less) educated than women in a white collar environment would be.
Keep in mind that I work at a TJX distribution center and the women I'm talking about are on average both older and less (HS graduate or less) educated than women in a white collar environment would be.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Oderint dum metuant
Oderint dum metuant
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Coyote
- Rabid Monkey
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- Contact:
I wonder what Hillary will do next to shore up her credentials against the onslaught that threatens to undermine her campaign. Anyone want to bet she'll try a tank-riding event like Dukakis did?
"I'm ready to take on John McCain!"
"I'm ready to take on John McCain!"
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Uraniun235
- Emperor's Hand
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If she did that she'd prove herself completely incompetent; any American politician with two working brain cells would know better than to pull a Dukakis, because they know it'd instantly draw comparisons with Dukakis.
"There is no "taboo" on using nuclear weapons." -Julhelm
What is Project Zohar?
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
"On a serious note (well not really) I did sometimes jump in and rate nBSG episodes a '5' before the episode even aired or I saw it." - RogueIce explaining that episode ratings on SDN tv show threads are bunk
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Coyote
- Rabid Monkey
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- Contact:
Well, in truth, maybe not a literal tank ride; but something more symbolic-- John McCain is on the news making a visit to Iraq, and with all the thunder & bluster about Hillary visiting Bosnia with Sinbad I can't help but wonder if we're going to see a trip to Iraq in her near future to present herself as tough & ballsy.
A grandstanding event like that would seem very Hillaryesque.
A grandstanding event like that would seem very Hillaryesque.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!
If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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The Yosemite Bear
- Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
- Posts: 35211
- Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
- Location: Dave's Not Here Man
hey that's just the reason why, I didn't say I agreed with that curruption....Knife wrote:God forbid if the electorate gets the shithead it elects.The Yosemite Bear wrote:Because certain people don't want another Jimmy Carter who was nominated and elected entirely on populist vote, following the scandal filled Nixon/Agnew/Ford administration. Think of it, Gerald Ford, the only president that never was elected to either president or Vice President....
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
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Broomstick
- Emperor's Hand
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- Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
- Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Yes. Didn't we just have 7 or 8 years of that...?Knife wrote:God forbid if the electorate gets the shithead it elects.The Yosemite Bear wrote:Because certain people don't want another Jimmy Carter who was nominated and elected entirely on populist vote, following the scandal filled Nixon/Agnew/Ford administration. Think of it, Gerald Ford, the only president that never was elected to either president or Vice President....
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Nope, only four. He didn't win the popular vote the first time, remember?Broomstick wrote:Yes. Didn't we just have 7 or 8 years of that...?Knife wrote:God forbid if the electorate gets the shithead it elects.The Yosemite Bear wrote:Because certain people don't want another Jimmy Carter who was nominated and elected entirely on populist vote, following the scandal filled Nixon/Agnew/Ford administration. Think of it, Gerald Ford, the only president that never was elected to either president or Vice President....
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
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Broomstick
- Emperor's Hand
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- Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
True, true - well, he won the popular vote with the Supreme Court, but that's not the electorate.Molyneux wrote:Nope, only four. He didn't win the popular vote the first time, remember?Broomstick wrote:Yes. Didn't we just have 7 or 8 years of that...?Knife wrote: God forbid if the electorate gets the shithead it elects.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice