An American Loonie and Toonie

[Spin Echo]

In other news, holy shit your notes only last 2 years? The AU bills last forever barring scissors: I've got one that's nearly as old as the new note system itself - the orange has faded a bit, but it's still structurally fine.

Thing is, Oz and New Zealand use plastic bills. The US uses paper/cloth. Of course they're going to fall apart in just a few years.

[Stark]

Thing is, Oz and New Zealand use plastic bills. The US uses paper/cloth. Of course they're going to fall apart in just a few years.

Thats kind of the whole point? Our money is better? That's what I'm talking about? Amusingly, the CSIRO makes similar money for many SEA nations, and the US looked at it as well.

What's crazy is that the US notes have many modern features added and they're not 'primitive' by any means: they just can't change what it looks like because people would cry like spoilt children. That's funny shit.

[Bounty]

In other news, holy shit your notes only last 2 years? The AU bills last forever barring scissors: I've got one that's nearly as old as the new note system itself - the orange has faded a bit, but it's still structurally fine.

Thing is, Oz and New Zealand use plastic bills. The US uses paper/cloth. Of course they're going to fall apart in just a few years.

The Euro bill is a type of paper, too, but they're projected to last between 5 and 7 years in normal circulation. They don't seem to wear all that bad, either; I've had notes go through the washing machine with no damage whatsoever.

[Spin Echo]

Thing is, Oz and New Zealand use plastic bills. The US uses paper/cloth. Of course they're going to fall apart in just a few years.

The Euro bill is a type of paper, too, but they're projected to last between 5 and 7 years in normal circulation. They don't seem to wear all that bad, either; I've had notes go through the washing machine with no damage whatsoever.

Ok. I guess the US just fails at making paper money.

[His Divine Shadow]

Personally I would love 1 and 2 euro notes. God I hate hate hate coins. Fortunately I don't need physical cash 99.5% of the time.

[Ma Deuce]

Personally I would love 1 and 2 euro notes. God I hate hate hate coins. Fortunately I don't need physical cash 99.5% of the time.

A lot of people seem to prefer notes even in that small denomination, for some reason. The only way the Bank of Canada got people to switch over to the Loonie 20 years ago was by halting all production of the one dollar notes and encouraging banks to turn them in for destruction. As long as the US Federal Reserve refuses to stop producing it's one-dollar bills, all their efforts to promote the use of dollar coins will likely fail.

Ok. I guess the US just fails at making paper money.

Canada's notes are made of cotton paper, and don't last any longer than US notes (generally about two years: Our bank doesn't seem to officially disclose the expected lifespan of our notes though). American notes are supposedly composed of some secret paper compound that the Fed won't disclose, designed in itself as an additional anti-counterfeit feature.

When Canada last switched the style of the notes, the Bank apparently considered going to polymer, but decided against it. Wasn't as pressing as it was for Australia, I guess: I've heard their climate meant that paper notes only lasted something like 6 months in regular circulation.

[Col. Crackpot]

i'd like to see some info the environmental impact of this switch. transporting heavy coins etc.

Also, as the resident banker i can honestly say we have a hard time giving out dollar coins. People look at my tellers like they have six heads when they give out dollar coins. Or they bitch. The only people who want them are old people. They give them to their grandchildren who in turn bring them back for paper money. whatever.

[Darth Wong]

i'd like to see some info the environmental impact of this switch. transporting heavy coins etc.

If you're worried about transport costs and coin weight, get rid of smaller denomination coins. With bills, the costs of continually printing them, shipping them from the Feds all over the country, etc. probably outweigh any added fuel costs from carrying coins around anyway.

Also, as the resident banker i can honestly say we have a hard time giving out dollar coins. People look at my tellers like they have six heads when they give out dollar coins. Or they bitch. The only people who want them are old people. They give them to their grandchildren who in turn bring them back for paper money. whatever.

That problem would go away if the dollar bills were taken out of circulation. It's stupid to try and promote dollar coins while still letting people keep the dollar bills. Don't you think there was a lot of reactionary opposition to the dollar coins here in Canada when they first came out? I remember the opposition, and they dredged up every argument they could think of. In the end, it didn't matter. The government simply stopped printing the old bills, they quickly went away on their own (remember, they don't last that long), and people eventually started to prefer the new loonies. Sometimes, you can't argue people into accepting something; you just have to do it and people will realize its benefits through daily use.

[Beowulf]

The feel of the paper US dollars are printed on is very distinctive. So much so that it's one of the greatest anti-counterfeiting measures available. Cashiers can just touch the bill and feel that it's wrong.

[Col. Crackpot]

The feel of the paper US dollars are printed on is very distinctive. So much so that it's one of the greatest anti-counterfeiting measures available. Cashiers can just touch the bill and feel that it's wrong.

counterfeiting a dollar coin is cost prohibitive. Fuck, counterfeiting (with quality) a dollar bill is cost prohibitive. That's why almost no one does it.

[Zwinmar]

Part of the reason for paper money is that it does degrade, actually. So that they can print more without causing inflation, in theory anyways.

Also, for a coin to be truely useful it needs to have intrensic value. Meaning that a $1 coin would need to be worth $1 in metal.

[Col. Crackpot]

Part of the reason for paper money is that it does degrade, actually. So that they can print more without causing inflation, in theory anyways.

Also, for a coin to be truely useful it needs to have intrensic value. Meaning that a $1 coin would need to be worth $1 in metal.

us pennies cost 2 cents to mint. nickels about 7 1/2.

[Stark]

Excuse me? Why are coins and notes different in this regard? How can you say something like that when plenty of countries have $1 coins that aren't intrinsically worth jack shit?

Maybe if the bronze market booms AU coins will have some intrinsic value, lol.

[SCRawl]

Also, for a coin to be truely useful it needs to have intrensic value. Meaning that a $1 coin would need to be worth $1 in metal.

I'm pretty sure that that hasn't been true for centuries. If there's a coin in the world whose material value is the same as its face value I'd be very, very surprised. For one thing, it would ignore the minting costs, which means that the act of minting that coin would make the mint poorer. (I recognize that the penny is the classic example of this silliness, which is the reason why it needs to go away. But that's another thread....)

[Molyneux]

Part of the reason for paper money is that it does degrade, actually. So that they can print more without causing inflation, in theory anyways.

Also, for a coin to be truely useful it needs to have intrensic value. Meaning that a $1 coin would need to be worth $1 in metal.

us pennies cost 2 cents to mint. nickels about 7 1/2.

Yes, but the reason that pennies aren't actually as ruinously expensive as you might think is that they last. It takes a long time and a lot of work to render a standard coin unusable through wear, during which time it can pass through hundreds or thousands of pockets.

[Phantasee]

Don't Canadian pennies cost 3 cents each to mint? Ridiculous.

Coins are the way to go, they last for ages and ages. What I wish Canada would do is get rid of the penny and make the 50c coin more common...

I think I'm going to go to the bank and switch a bunch of quarters for 50c coins, maybe if I can increase the circulation on campus it'll help?

[Stark]

I'm actually surprised Canada still have 1 cent coins (you guys calling them pennies is fucking funny shit ) - AU ditched them years ago. The rounding thing saves us slightly less money than it costs us, but frankly to lose the most worthless coin in the universe it was worth it.

[His Divine Shadow]

Part of the reason for paper money is that it does degrade, actually. So that they can print more without causing inflation, in theory anyways.

Also less weight and space in your wallet from a wad of bills as opposde to a bunch of coins. No more half kilo wallets, I hear american wallets don't even have coin purse. The bills are in my opinion the superior form, if the USA wishes to modernize just go and copy the Australians and their polymer money, that should be the most acceptable form, and nobody would really notice if you put small braile markings on it either and made the denominations raised.

[Ma Deuce]

Don't Canadian pennies cost 3 cents each to mint? Ridiculous.

Not anymore, since they started making them out of steel instead of copper they've managed to bring the production cost of each penny below 1 cent. Yes that's right, Canadian pennies and every coin below the loonie are now made primarily of steel and have been since 2000. They just plate them with the appropriate metals so they look and feel the same as the old coins.

I hear american wallets don't even have coin purse.

None of mine have had them, which is why I bought a separate change purse.

[Coyote]

What is funny about the name "penny/pennies"?

That said, the making of pennies is annoying and wasteful. We should ditch that altogether, but like with $1 coins, people whine and bitch that it is something that is part of our "heritage".

[Lusankya]

What is funny about the name "penny/pennies"?

It's so .... English. You spend all this time and effort making sure the King of England can't push you around, and then you use pennies. It's cute.

[Molyneux]

What is funny about the name "penny/pennies"?

It's so .... English. You spend all this time and effort making sure the King of England can't push you around, and then you use pennies. It's cute.

American culture tends to drag other cultures into a dark alley, take the good bits at gunpoint, then rifle through their pockets for loose slang.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Also, as the resident banker i can honestly say we have a hard time giving out dollar coins. People look at my tellers like they have six heads when they give out dollar coins. Or they bitch. The only people who want them are old people. They give them to their grandchildren who in turn bring them back for paper money. whatever.

That problem would go away if the dollar bills were taken out of circulation. It's stupid to try and promote dollar coins while still letting people keep the dollar bills. Don't you think there was a lot of reactionary opposition to the dollar coins here in Canada when they first came out? I remember the opposition, and they dredged up every argument they could think of. In the end, it didn't matter. The government simply stopped printing the old bills, they quickly went away on their own (remember, they don't last that long), and people eventually started to prefer the new loonies. Sometimes, you can't argue people into accepting something; you just have to do it and people will realize its benefits through daily use.

Sometimes the government really does know best and needs to lead the way. But it seems that American politicians try to play off too many special-interest groups and thus don't hvae the balls to do this. Interestingly, the term "loonie" originally held a derisive double meaning (at least it did here in redneck Alberta), and yet we seem to have gotten over it such that the term seems more endearing now.

Part of the reason for paper money is that it does degrade, actually. So that they can print more without causing inflation, in theory anyways.

Not at all. If paper money didn't degrade, then they wouldn't have to print as much replacement money, which wouldn't cause inflation either. And they would save the printing costs.

Also, for a coin to be truely useful it needs to have intrensic value. Meaning that a $1 coin would need to be worth $1 in metal.

Again, no. By the same logic, paper currency wouldn't be truly useful unless it similarly had an 'intrinsic' value. Governments used to use the gold standard, but I'm not aware of any government that still does, so there is no 'intrinsic' value in paper currency beyond the value of the paper on which it is printed. Yet people still find it useful because it is "legal tender" having the backing of its government. Which means that it has value as depends on the actions of that government.

But value is not the same as usefulness. A 1-cent coin has a certain value yet is next to useless simply because its buying power is so low that most people cannot be bothered to carry it around. If it was hypothetically made of 1 cent worth of gold, it would not become more useful (in fact, it would then be melted down for its gold, so its usefulness as currency would become even less). Similarly, a $1000 bill has little usefulness despite having high value because most people cannot afford it and those that can would use other means.

[Surlethe]

Part of the reason for paper money is that it does degrade, actually. So that they can print more without causing inflation, in theory anyways.

Not at all. If paper money didn't degrade, then they wouldn't have to print as much replacement money, which wouldn't cause inflation either. And they would save the printing costs.

It seems that paper allows the government to decrease the money supply (and so increase the value of the dollar) by stopping the dollar presses more quickly than they could by stopping the coin presses, but that increased flexibility is the only benefit I can see to the replacement of paper by coins.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

It seems that paper allows the government to decrease the money supply (and so increase the value of the dollar) by stopping the dollar presses more quickly than they could by stopping the coin presses, but that increased flexibility is the only benefit I can see to the replacement of paper by coins.

That sounds like a benefit for paper rather than coins.

But governments generally do not adjust the value of their currency by increasing or decreasing the printing of bills and/or the minting coins. While it could be done that way, there are more effective methods. Countries with fixed exchange rates manipulate the value of their currency by directly buying and selling it in the currency markets (which is why they need to maintain large reserves of foreign currency). Countries with floating exchange rates (such as Canada) adjust their domestic monetary policy to exert pressure on the currency markets.