Terroist leader escape from singapore prision

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Terroist leader escape from singapore prision

Post by ray245 »

Great...just great...for all our strict laws and etc, we just have to let a terrorist escape....
Security lapse led to escape of JI leader Mas Selamat, says DPM Wong
By Asha Popatlal, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 28 February 2008 1948 hrs


Mas Selamat Kastari


SINGAPORE: A security lapse at Whitley Detention Centre led to the escape of Jemaah Islamiyah leader Mas Selamat Kastari on Wednesday afternoon.

Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng who apologised for the incident said Mas Selamat was being taken to the toilet before a meeting at the Family Visit Room when he escaped.

He is still at large.

Mr Wong was responding to questions raised by several concerned MPs in Parliament on Thursday.

He said: "This should never have happened. I am sorry that it has. An independent investigation is underway and we should not speculate now as to what and how it happened. Security at the centre has been stepped up."

Questions came fast and furious from the concerned MPs.

And among them - why the time lag to inform the public?

Bukit Panjang MP, Dr Teo Ho Pin, said: “Mas Selamat escaped at 4.05pm yesterday. I received news of his escape through Channel NewsAsia’s SMS alert at 8.42pm.

“May I know why the ministry took so long, four hours to inform the public? Mas Selamat is unarmed, unlike Dave Teo's case, so why can't we involve the public to help to arrest him?" Dr Teo questioned.

Mr Wong replied: "Our security agencies assessed at the time of Mas Selamat's escape there was no imminent danger to the public. The focus then was to lock down the Whitley Road Detention Centre and then start a systematic operation to find and arrest him. The priority is to arrest him. No efforts will be spared to track him down."

A massive force of Special Operations Command officers, gurkhas and police officers were deployed from Wednesday in the manhunt which followed.

And as Thursday dawned, the effort continued, with army personnel as well.

Mr Wong said security had been tightened at all land, sea and air checkpoints.

This includes areas where he could possibly leave Singapore shores not from any normal immigration clearance lanes.

Although there's no indication that Mas Selamat had any plans which could threaten public security at this time, Mr Wong said the authorities are taking no chances.

Mr Wong added: “The picture of Mas Selamat is splashed all over the country. Look out for him and if there is any information of anyone that looks like him, report the case to the police and you can be sure the police will look into it thoroughly.”

The Home Affairs Minister also urged the public to stay calm and report any suspicious sighting to the public.

He made it very clear that anyone who renders assistance to him is committing a grave offence and will have to face the law. -CNA/vm



Dress your link, you fucking idiot.
User avatar
Xisiqomelir
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1757
Joined: 2003-01-16 09:27am
Location: Valuetown
Contact:

Re: Terroist leader escape from singapore prision

Post by Xisiqomelir »

I'm going to assume he had a little help. I'm also going to assume that he'll probably make it to Indonesia unless he's very stupid.
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: Terroist leader escape from singapore prision

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Xisiqomelir wrote:I'm going to assume he had a little help. I'm also going to assume that he'll probably make it to Indonesia unless he's very stupid.
And I will assume the ministers will be able to escape this blameless. :lol:
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
Xisiqomelir
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1757
Joined: 2003-01-16 09:27am
Location: Valuetown
Contact:

Re: Terroist leader escape from singapore prision

Post by Xisiqomelir »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Xisiqomelir wrote:I'm going to assume he had a little help. I'm also going to assume that he'll probably make it to Indonesia unless he's very stupid.
And I will assume the ministers will be able to escape this blameless. :lol:
Isn't that Renci monk the big news? Why is there always a convenient terrorist threat whenever there's evidence of deep institutionalized corruption in a government-linked charity? Image
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Well this sucks, but it’s not exactly the worst escape to happen so far in the War on Terror. This guy never even carried out any attacks we know of, unlike the guys who busted out of a prison in Yemen some months ago, and he’s actually been arrested and released repeatedly in the past suggesting his skills of disappearance are lacking.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Sea Skimmer wrote:Well this sucks, but it’s not exactly the worst escape to happen so far in the War on Terror. This guy never even carried out any attacks we know of, unlike the guys who busted out of a prison in Yemen some months ago, and he’s actually been arrested and released repeatedly in the past suggesting his skills of disappearance are lacking.
I think this is incomparable to the incidents in Phillipines where it was something of a mass prison break out.

But that aside, whether or not he really was to carry out any attacks hasn't been actually put forward in the court of law. So whether he's a decoy is anyone's guess.
Xisiqomelir wrote: Isn't that Renci monk the big news? Why is there always a convenient terrorist threat whenever there's evidence of deep institutionalized corruption in a government-linked charity?
Wag the Dog anyone? :lol: More interesting that this Renci monk is probably of the old boy's club given his background.

But jokes aside, I expect that the small fry get fired or even vilified, but the Ministers are able wriggle themselves free. So much for being the most well paid ministers in the world.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
Xisiqomelir
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1757
Joined: 2003-01-16 09:27am
Location: Valuetown
Contact:

Post by Xisiqomelir »

Comedy bump

To make the post not completely useless, here's a story on UncleYap's blog about how the world-class Home Team have informed him that they're going to raid his house in search of Mas Selamat again and again, because someone with a similar (but different) name lived there two years ago, and it's the only lead they have.
Thursday, March 06, 2008
CNB matas Raided my home again for MASxxx
This is not the 1st time, the previous time I blogged it here.

Today they did it again around noon. And they did it again WITH MORE THAN HALF A DOZEN OF MANPOWER including woman and all in plain clothes. The guy who led today's raid is more senior than the guy who led the previous. But this is a whole NEW (home?) TEAM not any of those I had seen the last time. Indian CNB ASP/DSP led this raid.

The wanted man connected with drug they are looking for is unfortunately not LKy, but MASxxx, not Mas Selamat Ke-Lari either, it is the same Mr. M mentioned in my previous blog post. I am not still not about to reveal online the full name of Mr. M or MASxxx.

I told the CNB once more today, that:

* this MASxxx stopped living at this address for 2 Years or More already.
* I have no idea where he is nor what he do.
* I have not seen him for over a year now.
* He obviously is too smart to go to NPP to report his new address.

But CNB told me again, that since this MASxxx's NRIC address remains at this address, they will keep coming to raid my home for him, and that's what they called doing their jobs.

CNB asked for my understanding about this. Yeah sure! I fully understand how so 1st World is famiLEE LEEgime's Home Team! No wonder Mas Selamat Ke-Lari could escaped and not found after 1 week. Why am I not surprised?

One thing the CNB had improved, they are no so arrogant as the last time. But however, this time, some of them tried to pry open my aluminum windows before I could open the door, and the old damn window is found broken and I had to repair it just before I posted this. This isn't entirely the CNB's fault because before they did this, another moron who locked keys in this house broke in via that window once. So the window was screwed and non-virgin before the CNB did it again! Salute the famiLEE LEEgime for this - POP!

I just want to highlight this to share with the world this fact about how our 1st World Home Team work, that they will keep raiding the last know address of a wanted person repeatedly when they know no better place to find their wanted.

Therefore, they should also keep raiding the Whitley Detention Center repeatedly until they caught Mas Selamat Ke-Lari. Really pity out tax payers who paid The World's Highest Salaries to famiLEE LEEgime for this World Class Standard.

I hope that Mas Selamat Ke-Lari will do his red dot homeland a favor when he reached abroad, just please post online a photo postcard of himself to prove that he is not in Singapore, so that our World Class Home Team can call of the Mother Of All Singapore Man Hunt, go home & take MC, and save our tax payer a huge sum. That should help to slower GST hike & our Inflation in a big way. Terima Kasih Mas, Selamat Ke Lari!

I also take this opportunity to highlight to you that, famiLEE LEEgime's Mother Of All Singapore Man Hunt involving unprecedentedly massive resources of Ministry of Home Affairs & Ministry of Defense, to look for a crippled captive who was once held in the LEEgime's most secured top secret facility, will eventually reveal clearly how a HOAX is their security myth, and actually how INCOMPETENT and useless are their ever-over-hyped SAF & SPF.

Please look at in contrast against the advertisings and propagandas they had abused to conduct the entire falsehood of famiLEE LEEgime. The falsehood here is exactly what the famiLEE LEEgime solely rely on to sustain since the past Goh Chok Tong era. The revelation of this ugly truth is what I always insisted to be a necessary and unavoidable stage of the process via which famiLEE LEEgime will fall apart.

The fled JI detainee is a significant mile stone, that we must never overlook.

It signifies that we are already that close to the final endings of Corrupted and Incompetent famiLEE LEEgime, which is sustaining on a falsehood to pursue LEEgalized Corruption; Graft & Plundering as well as other exploitation of our people & our republic.

Like the tale The Emperor's New Robe, famiLEE LEEgime's falsehood is coming apart before our eyes. So please open your eyes and observe the bear truth which is clearly displayed before the world's eyes now.

:-)

Would be naive on our part to demand Accountability & Transparency at this stage, expecting that the famiLEE LEEgime have any ability to deliver these to us. Nearly all the necessary justification to call for their complete removal had been strongly established. I ask our people to take our steps firm and certain, with the resolve to pay any necessary price for the change and reform needed by Rep of Singapore. In a short time to come, take these historic steps with courage and resolution towards a new remade Republic of Singapore together.
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

If the fucker does escape Singapore, Wong Kan Seng should be hanged for this stupidity and utter crap committed under his watch. Sadly, our DEAR LEADERS will never admit they were at fault, and with half the population is either too stupid for its own good, that seriously, even a terrorist attack to wake the fucking lot from their drunken, nay stupid, stupor.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Post by ray245 »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:If the fucker does escape Singapore, Wong Kan Seng should be hanged for this stupidity and utter crap committed under his watch. Sadly, our DEAR LEADERS will never admit they were at fault, and with half the population is either too stupid for its own good, that seriously, even a terrorist attack to wake the fucking lot from their drunken, nay stupid, stupor.
Oh...most people are pissed at the terrorist escaping all right...what most singaporeans still belive is that the terrorist leader is still in singapore, which I doubt is the case.

If the terrorist can escape from a prison, he can escape from singapore.

Now, the only thing that might save us is singaporeans's 'kai see' (afraid to die) attitude, which makes them rather suspicious...

Next time, just drop him in a whole with toliet and etc, with no way to climb up. Family can visit him by looking down, and food can be lowered down.

Now. let's see how that guy can escape.

If not, torture him physicologically...ignore human rights if that guy is a terrorist. Make him feel guilty until he want to commit sucide.

Ok, I'm getting a little bit sick.
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

ray245 wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:If the fucker does escape Singapore, Wong Kan Seng should be hanged for this stupidity and utter crap committed under his watch. Sadly, our DEAR LEADERS will never admit they were at fault, and with half the population is either too stupid for its own good, that seriously, even a terrorist attack to wake the fucking lot from their drunken, nay stupid, stupor.
Oh...most people are pissed at the terrorist escaping all right...what most singaporeans still belive is that the terrorist leader is still in singapore, which I doubt is the case.

If the terrorist can escape from a prison, he can escape from singapore.

Now, the only thing that might save us is singaporeans's 'kai see' (afraid to die) attitude, which makes them rather suspicious...

Next time, just drop him in a whole with toliet and etc, with no way to climb up. Family can visit him by looking down, and food can be lowered down.

Now. let's see how that guy can escape.

If not, torture him physicologically...ignore human rights if that guy is a terrorist. Make him feel guilty until he want to commit sucide.

Ok, I'm getting a little bit sick.
They may be pissed, but when it comes to voting out incompetent fools, I wonder who's more incompetent; the voters or the politicians? Or Both?
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
AniThyng
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2777
Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
Contact:

Post by AniThyng »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: They may be pissed, but when it comes to voting out incompetent fools, I wonder who's more incompetent; the voters or the politicians? Or Both?
Does Singapore have a credible opposition in any case? I suspect much like Malaysia your voting choices are down to "corrupt ruling party" and "raving idiots".
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Post by ray245 »

AniThyng wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: They may be pissed, but when it comes to voting out incompetent fools, I wonder who's more incompetent; the voters or the politicians? Or Both?
Does Singapore have a credible opposition in any case? I suspect much like Malaysia your voting choices are down to "corrupt ruling party" and "raving idiots".
More or less the same...luckily the original opposition party, the SDP with a rather insan man at the top has been crushed and replaced by the worker's party, a party that out-manuavered the PAP in the previous election.


Let us hope the Worker's party can keep up the mommentum.
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

AniThyng wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: They may be pissed, but when it comes to voting out incompetent fools, I wonder who's more incompetent; the voters or the politicians? Or Both?
Does Singapore have a credible opposition in any case? I suspect much like Malaysia your voting choices are down to "corrupt ruling party" and "raving idiots".
One might even go as far as characterise the ruling party as initially a bunch of "raving idiots" who went as far as fraternise with "communists", only to turn on them when the communists refused to go along with the PAP. Quite frankly, the PAP is no better than the opposition, if not worse. The only difference is that the PAP isn't above using all the organs of state to ensure their victory.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
PainRack
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7583
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:03am
Location: Singapura

Post by PainRack »

AniThyng wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: They may be pissed, but when it comes to voting out incompetent fools, I wonder who's more incompetent; the voters or the politicians? Or Both?
Does Singapore have a credible opposition in any case? I suspect much like Malaysia your voting choices are down to "corrupt ruling party" and "raving idiots".
We do have good opposition leaders. It just that they're way too few to counter the PAP horde, which revised electoral laws to their favour. JB jaya, Chiam and even Slipper guy are all good in their own way. Chee on the other hand is a raving loon. He seems to have forgotten that theatrics only count for half of the political equation, actions count for the others.
One might even go as far as characterise the ruling party as initially a bunch of "raving idiots" who went as far as fraternise with "communists", only to turn on them when the communists refused to go along with the PAP. Quite frankly, the PAP is no better than the opposition, if not worse. The only difference is that the PAP isn't above using all the organs of state to ensure their victory.
This is interesting. Why would you say that? There isn't a shred of a doubt that the original Cabinet were politicians first, leaders second, but they were good leaders. This isn't to say that David Marshall isn't one, indeed, the frankly paltry commentary of the man is a crying shame, when compared to recent dead politicians.
Beside, who can't admire a guy who said Put that on my gravestone when Lee Kuan Yew accused him of freeing countless murderers and convicts? A pity his party failed to follow his leadership policies after he resigned, opening them up to the opposition claims of political repression and incompetency.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
AniThyng
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2777
Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
Contact:

Post by AniThyng »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
One might even go as far as characterise the ruling party as initially a bunch of "raving idiots" who went as far as fraternise with "communists", only to turn on them when the communists refused to go along with the PAP. Quite frankly, the PAP is no better than the opposition, if not worse. The only difference is that the PAP isn't above using all the organs of state to ensure their victory.
This is completely off topic. but holy shit, the DAP took Penang.
I am both happy and uneasy at the same time.

Now to see if the Malaysian Opposition can get enough done with what it has this election to change anything, or just get run down in the next election with the backlash vote due to the ruling coalition doing every thing they can to make the opposition seats hell. Not that I have full confidence in many opposition politicians, who have i suspect gotten very comfortable in their role as noisemakers of little actual governmental significance.

To relate back to this tangent, that the DAP is the PAP's offshoot party in Malaya is probably somewhat ironic, certainly I have little reason to believe they would not be the same if they had the reins of power. But we'll see.
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

And our Humiliation continues...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/world ... anted=2&hp
The New York Times
Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By

March 14, 2008
Singapore Journal
Escapee Eludes Search Party of 4 Million
By SETH MYDANS

SINGAPORE — Lock up your bicycles. There is a dangerous terrorist on the loose.

Mas Selamat Kastari, accused by the government of being the leader of a terrorist group here, escaped from a high-security prison two weeks ago in a major embarrassment for this efficient, tightly battened city-state. Officials said he simply disappeared after being given permission to go to the bathroom.

In a furious response, the government put the entire country on alert, setting up checkpoints, sealing its borders, patrolling its parks and its shores, even urging people to keep an eye on their bicycles in case the wanted man decides to pedal to freedom.

With each new empty-handed day the embarrassment deepens as Singapore confronts its Tora Bora moment, its most-wanted terrorist suspect melting into the urban terrain, like Osama bin Laden evaded American troops in Afghanistan.

For some people here, this noisy, flailing search — even more than the escape itself — has cast Singapore in an unfamiliar light of haplessness.

“We had all bought into the image of a well-organized government machinery,” wrote Alex Au, author of a popular political Web site called Yawning Bread. “Suddenly, our picture of Singapore as a kind of big brother state is, well, full of holes.” All around the city, police officers are on patrol and their checkpoints have delayed traffic for as much as 15 hours in some places, according to newspaper reports.

Security officers on boats and Jet Skis are patrolling the coastline and the police have removed keys from the ignitions of unattended motor boats.

In what one newspaper called “extensive land, sea and air searches,” military patrols in jungle fatigues and Nepalese Gurkha paramilitary forces have scoured the city for the runaway inmate.

Wanted posters are everywhere, mug shots have been transmitted to millions of cellphones and the entire nation of four million people has been deputized to look out for a round-faced man who is 1.58 meters tall, or 5-foot-2, weighs 63 kilograms, or 139 pounds, and walks — or at least runs — with a limp.

Newspapers here say it is the biggest manhunt in Singapore’s history.

Mr. Mas Selamat, 47, who is said be the chief of operations in Singapore for the Jemaah Islamiyah terrorist network, is accused by the government of being the coordinator of a failed plot to set off bombs in Singapore, and of planning to crash an airplane into its airport.

He has been in detention here since 2006 under the Internal Security Act, which allows the government to hold suspects without trial, and his escape was a shock to terrorism experts in the region.

“Everyone thought Singapore had the tightest security system of anyone around,” said Sidney Jones, the Asia director for the International Crisis Group.

As a nation, Singapore is as lean and mean and flexible as the rapid-response military the Pentagon dreams of, and it reacted with impressive speed and agility to recent Asian outbreaks of bird flu and SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome.

But for the moment it seems to have met its match in Mr. Mas Selamat.

His disappearance challenges its basic promise to its citizens that the government will keep them safe and comfortable.

The authorities have released little information about his escape on Feb. 27, but they say that he acted alone and on the spur of the moment and that he is probably still in Singapore.

The official account is that the prisoner asked to go to the bathroom while waiting for family members to visit, then simply disappeared from the Whitley Road Detention Center.

If this is true, said Lee Kin Mun, a leading political blogger who calls himself Mr. Brown, the government should “take a leaf from school exams, where security seems to be tighter” and where students must be escorted to the bathroom.


The country’s founder and former prime minister, Lee Kuan Yew, boiled the whole debacle down to one word: complacency.

He used the episode to strike again with his frequent warning that Singaporeans must work hard to protect the modern but fragile country he created from a social or economic explosion.

“It shows that it is a fallacy, it is stupid, to believe we are infallible,” he said. “We are not infallible. One mistake and we’ve got a big explosive in our midst. So let’s not take this lightly. I think it’s a very severe lesson on complacency.”

His son, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, said: “It is definitely a setback, and it should never have happened.” And then, echoing his father: “It’s the danger of complacency, of thinking that everything is all right.”

In Singapore, words like that amount to marching orders, and government agencies seem to be rushing to demonstrate that whatever else they are, they are anything but complacent.

Wong Hong Kuan, the assistant police commissioner, is at the center of the storm, commanding both his security forces and the public response.

“He knows machines, so keep an eye on your car,” said the newspaper Today, reporting on a recent briefing by Mr. Wong. “Anyone who discovers their vehicles, including motorcycles and bicycles, missing, should make a police report immediately.”

“Err on the side of caution,” the paper quoted Wong as saying. “Every second counts.”

The public has swung into action, as it has with previous nationwide campaigns — to have fewer children, to have more children, to keep toilets clean, not to throw things off balconies, to speak good English, to smile and to commit “spontaneous acts of kindness.”

More than a thousand people have telephoned the police with tips.

Concerned citizens are stopping people on the street who fit the fugitive’s description. This is not a good place to be a man with a limp.

“Mas Selamat” seems to be everywhere.

He has been seen running into a park wearing only a pair of shorts monogrammed with the initials of the detention center. He has been spotted at an outdoor food stall, “but it turned out to be the man is Chinese,” according to a witness quoted in the news media.

Someone followed his footprints up a flight of stairs to a rooftop, where the footprints disappeared. Someone else saw him running down a highway toward a causeway linking Singapore to Malaysia.

A comedian, Ahmad Stokin, 51, said he had been stopped eight times, but did not seem to find it funny. He said he may look a bit like the picture on the wanted posters and he may have a limp, but it is in his right leg, not his left.

Two weeks into the search, these fruitless sightings are about all the papers have to report about the biggest news story of the day.

The top headline on Thursday about the search in the country’s main newspaper, The Straits Times, read: “I Think I Saw Mas Selamat.”

An unnamed woman, the paper reported, had just recalled seeing someone who fit the description two weeks ago near the Singapore Association of the Visually Handicapped.

Pondering this report, the newspaper left its readers with what is now a pointless question.

“Was Fugitive Limping Along This Road?” it asked in a headline, and displayed a photograph of an empty, rain-slick road where the witness had been standing.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

PainRack wrote:This is interesting. Why would you say that? There isn't a shred of a doubt that the original Cabinet were politicians first, leaders second, but they were good leaders. This isn't to say that David Marshall isn't one, indeed, the frankly paltry commentary of the man is a crying shame, when compared to recent dead politicians.
Beside, who can't admire a guy who said Put that on my gravestone when Lee Kuan Yew accused him of freeing countless murderers and convicts? A pity his party failed to follow his leadership policies after he resigned, opening them up to the opposition claims of political repression and incompetency.
To be frank, although the initial batch of ministers were far more competent than today's bunch of "Yes Sir Yes Sir 3 Black wool" morons, they failed to focus on nurturing a thinking society. Instead, they placed economic development on the top priority with development of society a far distance third or fourth, if it was even ever on the list. The single minded focus on jobs and economy, though it bore fruits on which the PAP continues to coast along on those fruits, it failed to nurture a society that was more vocal and more willing to challenge societal norms. Instead, they allowed Lee Kuan Yew to pursue his own vendetta against the Communists, going so far as locking some of them for decades. Did Barisan Socialis really warrant such a great threat? Compared to the Communist rebels in Vietnam, the Barisan Socialis were far more tame than them and other than civil disobedience, they never wrecked the havoc that would have brought us close to what happened in Vietnam. The bigger threat would have been arguably been Indonesia in those days, until Suharto came to power through... a fair bit of blood.

David Marshall belongs to a lost generation of idealists. Those days are gone unfortunately. Now we have a nation of cynics and selfish morons, if you ask me.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Post by ray245 »

Then Fingolfin_Noldor, what is your oppinon towards the oppostion party in singapore now?

Especially the worker's party?
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

ray245 wrote:Then Fingolfin_Noldor, what is your oppinon towards the oppostion party in singapore now?

Especially the worker's party?
Anything that would conceivably get rid of the PAP or at least remove their 66% control of parliament.

That aside, that's an impossibility unless someone runs against SM Goh. The fucker for an MP nearly lost the election in my ward and had to be gobbled up... of all the conniving...
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
PainRack
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7583
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:03am
Location: Singapura

Post by PainRack »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: To be frank, although the initial batch of ministers were far more competent than today's bunch of "Yes Sir Yes Sir 3 Black wool" morons, they failed to focus on nurturing a thinking society.
And? The fact remains that in the midst of economic/political uncertainty, they developed a set of pirorities and delivered on that. Arguing about nurturing a thinking society is misleading. At that point in time, and again, in tandem with other nations, the focus in the education systems was on industrial education. America itself followed a similar trend, although it took its current trend into the "liberal arts degree" following.
Instead, they placed economic development on the top priority with development of society a far distance third or fourth, if it was even ever on the list.
You're wrong. The PAP engaged on the most comprehensive social engineering programme in history, ever. The only comparable programme would be the Cultural Revolution and Ten Flowers social engineering found in China.
You're living in the land of a thousand campaign, with reverbations from even most basic policies such as how anti-racism policies leads on to housing allocation in public housing. Anti spitting laws amidst a background of public hygiene? Ditto. Hell, let's not forget the most basic of all movements. A change from rural Singapore towards industrialised, URBAN singapore. Its only 4 decades ago that most of Singapore was still raw jungle. By 1980s, this had changed to the extent that in 1988, over 95% of Singapore was urbanised. Adopting British housing estates policies led the charge towards massive social change when people lived in flats instead of kampungs. Social activities and the fabric of society........ not to mention, extending education to girls...............
The single minded focus on jobs and economy, though it bore fruits on which the PAP continues to coast along on those fruits, it failed to nurture a society that was more vocal and more willing to challenge societal norms.
You mistook the cause. Certainly, benefits along those fronts fostered political benefits that allowed the PAP to continue its lock on power, however, the lack of political and vocal opposition was in fact due to the drastic social engineering programmes launched by the PAP, ranging from anti-segration and anti-racism laws crushing the local Chinese and Malay communities, the integration of local unions into NTUC so that the PAP can enjoy its traditional support from the unions, the attacks on gangsterism with locks on martial artist societies, local clubs and organisations...... Even the traditional Straits Businessmen saw its power morph and erode as new communities and acceptance of MNCs, globalisation stepped in. You're simply way too young to remember the furore over NanTah and its morphing into NTU. Or to remember how the local chinese political organisations, chinese schools were similarly dismembered after the Hock Lee bus riots.
Instead, they allowed Lee Kuan Yew to pursue his own vendetta against the Communists, going so far as locking some of them for decades. Did Barisan Socialis really warrant such a great threat? Compared to the Communist rebels in Vietnam, the Barisan Socialis were far more tame than them and other than civil disobedience, they never wrecked the havoc that would have brought us close to what happened in Vietnam. The bigger threat would have been arguably been Indonesia in those days, until Suharto came to power through... a fair bit of blood.
You obviously never studied history. The CMP has already moved its roots back into urban infiltration and rioting by the late 50s, before the Malayan Emergency died out. Were they such a great threat? This ignores the anti-communist context of international politics of that era, as well as the infamous fifth column fear of both Soviet Russia and Communist China. Singapore in its early days was viewed by its British and Commonwealth partners as being most likely to fall under Communist influence, with a British leader mentioning that a new China would be founded in Singapore.
So, while their power had greatly declined after the Emergency, the real threat lay in international politics and how it could affect Singapore. In our need to bind to allies, we had to embrace anti-communism. The fact that it only enhanced the power of the local government was a welcome bonus.
David Marshall belongs to a lost generation of idealists. Those days are gone unfortunately. Now we have a nation of cynics and selfish morons, if you ask me.
Right... Which part of the internet have you been lurking in BTW? You badly mistake the power of the Young. Or well, middle aged Young:D
As it is, I'm still very happy over the success of AWARE for finally extending the powers of rape laws to spouses. True, repeal 277a failed last year, but the practical victory of the above earlier is still wonderful. Similarly, environmental movements has also enjoyed success, although conservation efforts are still mostly half-formed.(Changi Prison anyone?)
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

PainRack wrote:And? The fact remains that in the midst of economic/political uncertainty, they developed a set of pirorities and delivered on that. Arguing about nurturing a thinking society is misleading. At that point in time, and again, in tandem with other nations, the focus in the education systems was on industrial education. America itself followed a similar trend, although it took its current trend into the "liberal arts degree" following.
How misleading is it? As it is, the quality of education wasn't stellar back in those days, and not enough was done to keep students in school, especially the poor ones. A lot of the current social problems stem from the fact that many up to the 80s did not have education beyond secondary school level and only a few made it far into the university. As for America, it strived from the start to catch up with the European universities as far back as the 1800s with many universities popping up here and there. It took a century to finally catch up, but despite that, many of the revolutions in engineering such as electricity and aerospace all have American roots. By World War II, America was equal, if not better, to just about any European power.
You're wrong. The PAP engaged on the most comprehensive social engineering programme in history, ever. The only comparable programme would be the Cultural Revolution and Ten Flowers social engineering found in China.
You're living in the land of a thousand campaign, with reverbations from even most basic policies such as how anti-racism policies leads on to housing allocation in public housing. Anti spitting laws amidst a background of public hygiene? Ditto. Hell, let's not forget the most basic of all movements. A change from rural Singapore towards industrialised, URBAN singapore. Its only 4 decades ago that most of Singapore was still raw jungle. By 1980s, this had changed to the extent that in 1988, over 95% of Singapore was urbanised. Adopting British housing estates policies led the charge towards massive social change when people lived in flats instead of kampungs. Social activities and the fabric of society........ not to mention, extending education to girls...............
If you mean developing a culture of fear and a rather progressive society, I will concede that. But developing a culture of innovation did not feature on that list. Rather, they decided to just raise a country of factory workers, and kept following that path till the shit hit the fan in 1997 and 2001 when the manufacturing sector imploded. Any attempt at innovation or research was a joke, not least NUS and NTU's nonsensical and stupid attempt to publish papers on banana paper and making research a joke in Singapore. The leap into biotech is almost too little too late and it will take decades and tonnes of money to catch up, assuming the bureaucrats have that much patience.
You mistook the cause. Certainly, benefits along those fronts fostered political benefits that allowed the PAP to continue its lock on power, however, the lack of political and vocal opposition was in fact due to the drastic social engineering programmes launched by the PAP, ranging from anti-segration and anti-racism laws crushing the local Chinese and Malay communities, the integration of local unions into NTUC so that the PAP can enjoy its traditional support from the unions, the attacks on gangsterism with locks on martial artist societies, local clubs and organisations...... Even the traditional Straits Businessmen saw its power morph and erode as new communities and acceptance of MNCs, globalisation stepped in. You're simply way too young to remember the furore over NanTah and its morphing into NTU. Or to remember how the local chinese political organisations, chinese schools were similarly dismembered after the Hock Lee bus riots.
And how does this relate to the lack of a vocal society? Destroying power structures relate to a vocal society how?
You obviously never studied history. The CMP has already moved its roots back into urban infiltration and rioting by the late 50s, before the Malayan Emergency died out. Were they such a great threat? This ignores the anti-communist context of international politics of that era, as well as the infamous fifth column fear of both Soviet Russia and Communist China. Singapore in its early days was viewed by its British and Commonwealth partners as being most likely to fall under Communist influence, with a British leader mentioning that a new China would be founded in Singapore.
As some of the other board members, such as Stas Bush and Stuart will tell you, the jostling between Communist Russia and the West is simply another tangle between the Great Powers than anything else. What simply happened was the PAP chose for us to stick with the British rather than choose the other Power to side with. Under that context, it is simply put "You are with me or against me." A threat? Between the Indonesians, which actually infiltrated commandos and bombed buildings, the Barisan Socialist party is a toothless tiger. Heck, they are practically only as bad as UMNO who infiltrated Singapore and stirred up race riots. I would like to see the PAP dare to lock up any UMNO sympathizers. If Barisan Socialist party were instead in power, the PAP would have viewed as an attempt by the British to seize power in Singapore and the positions would have been reversed. Why, by your argument, we should have had LKY locked up for colluding with the enemy. Have you considered that the history was written by the victors? You are mistaking righteousness for ambition.
So, while their power had greatly declined after the Emergency, the real threat lay in international politics and how it could affect Singapore. In our need to bind to allies, we had to embrace anti-communism. The fact that it only enhanced the power of the local government was a welcome bonus.
And yet, for all the so-called enhancement of power, the PAP still saw fit to lock up some of them for 30 years, refused entry to any of the exiles, or even allow books by them to be published. Even going so far as locking up and exiling 20 or so social activists under the ISA in the 1980s accusing them of communism. You are a supporter of George W Bush are you?
Right... Which part of the internet have you been lurking in BTW? You badly mistake the power of the Young. Or well, middle aged Young:D
As it is, I'm still very happy over the success of AWARE for finally extending the powers of rape laws to spouses. True, repeal 277a failed last year, but the practical victory of the above earlier is still wonderful. Similarly, environmental movements has also enjoyed success, although conservation efforts are still mostly half-formed.(Changi Prison anyone?)
For what fuck does this even fucking even matter anything on the scale of things? While grasping lose crumbs, till this damn day, accountability and transparency of the Government are nonexistent. If apparently, aiming low is a trait of most Singaporeans, it is no wonder the Government is seeking the influx of PRCs and Indians and liberally giving them PRs.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
AniThyng
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2777
Joined: 2003-09-08 12:47pm
Location: Took an arrow in the knee.
Contact:

Post by AniThyng »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
ray245 wrote:Then Fingolfin_Noldor, what is your oppinon towards the oppostion party in singapore now?

Especially the worker's party?
Anything that would conceivably get rid of the PAP or at least remove their 66% control of parliament.

That aside, that's an impossibility unless someone runs against SM Goh. The fucker for an MP nearly lost the election in my ward and had to be gobbled up... of all the conniving...
So, is the Singaporean media using Islamist PAS's newfound clout and the teething problems in the totally unexpected Malaysian opposition coalition's state governments as a bogeyman for why singaporeans must never let the Opposition win? ;)

Certainly over here Malay supremicists are whining that the DAP will turn Penang in a Singapore, where Malays are oppressed. (yeah, right, Malays in singapore are so oppressed they flee to Malaysia, home of the words only affirmative action program for the majority race, *I'm a smarmy asshole*?)
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character :P
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Post by ray245 »

AniThyng wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
ray245 wrote:Then Fingolfin_Noldor, what is your oppinon towards the oppostion party in singapore now?

Especially the worker's party?
Anything that would conceivably get rid of the PAP or at least remove their 66% control of parliament.

That aside, that's an impossibility unless someone runs against SM Goh. The fucker for an MP nearly lost the election in my ward and had to be gobbled up... of all the conniving...
So, is the Singaporean media using Islamist PAS's newfound clout and the teething problems in the totally unexpected Malaysian opposition coalition's state governments as a bogeyman for why singaporeans must never let the Opposition win? ;)

Certainly over here Malay supremicists are whining that the DAP will turn Penang in a Singapore, where Malays are oppressed. (yeah, right, Malays in singapore are so oppressed they flee to Malaysia, home of the words only affirmative action program for the majority race, *I'm a smarmy asshole*?)
It is possible that the PAP will point out and say you don't want our stock market to crash, do we?

I will gladly vote for any opposition party as long as it is not the SDP.

If the SDP is running in my ward, I will vote PAP instead.
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

AniThyng wrote:So, is the Singaporean media using Islamist PAS's newfound clout and the teething problems in the totally unexpected Malaysian opposition coalition's state governments as a bogeyman for why singaporeans must never let the Opposition win? ;)

Certainly over here Malay supremicists are whining that the DAP will turn Penang in a Singapore, where Malays are oppressed. (yeah, right, Malays in singapore are so oppressed they flee to Malaysia, home of the words only affirmative action program for the majority race, *I'm a smarmy asshole*?)
I won't be surprised. You had plenty of stories in the papers on how Islamic law was strictly implemented in Trengganu if I am not wrong when PAS was on the rise.

Now they are running stories about the possibility of the PAP losing the 66% majority, about the possible worsening of investment climate, and also so many other things. Why, it can't get any more predictable than this can it? :lol:
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Post by ray245 »

From what I know, the younger generation, AKA my generation are more inclined to vote for any opposition party, especially the Worker's party.

Somehow, the WP seems to have a way of attracting the younger generation.
Post Reply