Armageddon???? (Part Fifty Up)

[Darth Wong]

Abigor lives.

He is going to be very useful to us. Not only does he have intimate knowledge of hell but probably Heaven too.

Also where will all those Demons be locked up?

Who says they'll be locked up? Harsh treatment would be counter-productive unless Abigor proves to be totally uncooperative, which I doubt will be the case. He surrendered and swore fealty to the human forces; he and his clan are now honour-bound to assist the humans. If his kin are well-treated, he will be even more likely to render useful assistance. The humans have already realized that they are dealing with civilians, including children. As long as they keep them supplied with water and meat and make sure they understand not to harm any humans, they should be fine.

[DarthShady]

Who says they'll be locked up? Harsh treatment would be counter-productive unless Abigor proves to be totally uncooperative, which I doubt will be the case. He surrendered and swore fealty to the human forces; he and his clan are now honour-bound to assist the humans. If his kin are well-treated, he will be even more likely to render useful assistance. The humans have already realized that they are dealing with civilians, including children. As long as they keep them supplied with water and meat and make sure they understand not to harm any humans, they should be fine.

This opens up a chance for a lot more Demons to surrender once they find out that humans are not all that bad.
Also considering that Demons eat a lot of meat, is feeding them going to be a problem?

[Academia Nut]

I expect as the war continues the price of red meat on the civilian market will skyrocket more than usual during times of rationing as the needs of the demons in captivity are met. Still, they're probably going to be hungry a lot or need to learn to tolerate tofu as the more that are captured the harder it will be to feed them all.

[Zor]

First comment on this, but frankly, given the size of the thread, some sort of Index is warented at this point.

Zor

[Academia Nut]

Cough

Although Surlethe really needs to get around to updating it. Alternatively, just use the cleaned up version, although Stravo tends to be a little behind on the updating for obvious reason of not being Stuart.

[phongn]

Technically, Abigor did seize the ridge as-ordered, even if he surrendered it shortly after. As for the "six most important words" in Chapter 30, I think they refer to "Or anywhere else for that matter."

You know, I think post-war stories dealing with the changes in culture and such will be more awesome than the actual war time stories. Demon bouncers, succubus call girls, people planning for their afterlives, the new generations growing up not having known the horrors of the war or of religious conflicts, and that jazz.

Somehow, I don't think even the dead will see the end of war. We're just too ornery to live in peace

[JN1]

Couple of nitpicks...

Today was the day that the 7th Black Watch would get their first chance to fire the new rifles

They're the 7th Battalion of the Black Watch, but would be referred to as 7 Black Watch, not 7th Black Watch. Just the way the British Army does things.

“In your own time, commence firing!” The range officer called out.

This particular order is ALWAYS "In your own time, go on". They're very hot on this sort of thing to avoid the risk of some of the thicker soldiers being confused by an order they're not used to.

Oh, and as an aside, they're likely to model the course the conscripts go through heavily on the TA Summer Challenge - takes recruits up to the TA "Trained Soldier" standard in 7 weeks. The lesson plans, system, trainers, etc. for that are all set up, they just need to run a bunch of "train the trainer" courses, find some locations and get on with it. It'll probably be modified with time, but it's the most likely starting point.

Sorry, mate, those errors are mine, rather than Stu's. I don't know why I put the 'th' in when I know fine well the British Army doesn't. I'm also no expert on range procedures, though a mate of mine in the Air Cadets is qualified to run a range, should have asked him I guess.

When I was looking for a way for training conscripts, I mainly drew inspiration from the training of the Kitchener Armies in 1914-15 and of the conscripts during WW2 and the post-war National Servicemen.
The TA Summer Challenge does look like a good starting point though, at least until the training machine has expanded to cope with the millions of recruits that will be coming through it.

[MKSheppard]

Now when does abigor get driven or flown in a UH-60 over a landscape full of thousands of tanks manouvering in the desert, and tens of thousands of trucks?

[Darth Wong]

Who says they'll be locked up? Harsh treatment would be counter-productive unless Abigor proves to be totally uncooperative, which I doubt will be the case. He surrendered and swore fealty to the human forces; he and his clan are now honour-bound to assist the humans. If his kin are well-treated, he will be even more likely to render useful assistance. The humans have already realized that they are dealing with civilians, including children. As long as they keep them supplied with water and meat and make sure they understand not to harm any humans, they should be fine.

This opens up a chance for a lot more Demons to surrender once they find out that humans are not all that bad.
Also considering that Demons eat a lot of meat, is feeding them going to be a problem?

They probably don't eat that much under normal conditions. Keep in mind that the original invasion lacked a supply train; how hungry can they be? However, under periods of great physical exertion, their energy requirement obviously shoots up. Memnon's marathon run to safety was a good example of such an extraordinary exertion; it would be silly to characterize normal baldrick dietary requirements by that incident.

[Academia Nut]

It probably won't be that hard to feed them, but the baldricks appear to be intelligent, obligate carnivores and the typical height of one is in the eight or nine foot range so I wouldn't be surprised if they needed to consume meat in quantities similar to say a lion. Not exactly an impossible amount, but enough to suck up considerable quantities once large numbers are captured. Global production won't be the problem, it will be getting it from point A to point B and then into their stomachs.

[dragon]

So what do all the demons in hell eat? Do they have some kind of meat farm as the humans aren't eaten as there needed for the energy.

[Sea Skimmer]

I think Abigor is well on his way to becoming viceroy of occupied hell. But that brings up a vital question relevant to how quickly we try to overrun the place… does the hell plane, or whatever it should be called since its not a world, have oil?

[pdf27]

Sorry, mate, those errors are mine, rather than Stu's. I don't know why I put the 'th' in when I know fine well the British Army doesn't. I'm also no expert on range procedures, though a mate of mine in the Air Cadets is qualified to run a range, should have asked him I guess.

I figured they probably would be (the selection of a Battalion from Fife should have been a hint!). You ought to know what I'm like for army nitpicks from TLW by now though

When I was looking for a way for training conscripts, I mainly drew inspiration from the training of the Kitchener Armies in 1914-15 and of the conscripts during WW2 and the post-war National Servicemen.
The TA Summer Challenge does look like a good starting point though, at least until the training machine has expanded to cope with the millions of recruits that will be coming through it.

I suspect in reality Summer Challenge or something very similar would be used because it is there.
The standard TA training regime is simply too intense to pack all in to a single block - note that Summer Challenge technically only covers the ground of 6 weekends and a 15 day camp, but if you tried to pack that all into 4 weeks the recruits would simply burn out. The Kitchener model or the WW2/National Service model simply won't work because everything that supported them is now missing, and the recruits are very different - comparatively highly educated couch potatoes. The TA model is known to work with the recruits that come in the door and trains them up to the standard required by the army, so that's what they'll use.

[JBG]

Now when does abigor get driven or flown in a UH-60 over a landscape full of thousands of tanks manouvering in the desert, and tens of thousands of trucks?

Mark, I suspect that he will even get a fire power demonstration similar to those that new Presidents get. On the way there he will get the aerial view of tanks etc as you say, a stroll through an artillery park and then, if you fly him to the US, stop overs at bases packed with all manner of military aircraft and over flights perhaps of a carrier battle group etc. Sounds interesting Mark, can you get me some tickets?

Jonathan

[JCady]

Only four hundred baldricks? I assume that's the kidlings and mates of Abigor's own clan, not those of his entire sixty-legion command, then?

[Academia Nut]

Oooh! Imagine his response if they decide to make a stopover on an aircraft carrier. From Abigor's perspective the humans have basically built a giant armoured island that goes where they want just so that they can lanch their sky chariots.

And JCady, those four hundred were what was left of his sixty legions, you know, the ones that got blown to pieces?

[Gullible Jones]

So what do all the demons in hell eat? Do they have some kind of meat farm as the humans aren't eaten as there needed for the energy.

Probably various sorts of native animal.

[Typhonis 1]

You are forgetting other ways to open Balderick eyes. Medical treatment. Imagine the looks on their faces when human doctors offer to remove the metal in their bodies so they can heal normally and that such treatment is possible.


As for the reinactors in the US Volunteer units. They could carry modern muzzleloaders. .50 calibre sabot rounds fired using mass produced pre made ammunition, available in store that sell hunting supplies, will be nasty.

[Stuart Mackey]

I think Abigor is well on his way to becoming viceroy of occupied hell. But that brings up a vital question relevant to how quickly we try to overrun the place… does the hell plane, or whatever it should be called since its not a world, have oil?

As for who runs hell after the war, think that it will end up being an independent nation eventually, despite what Putin wants, especially when you have so many notables from history running around and the simple fact that it already has an indigenous population who are not stupid, and will demand their rights.

[MKSheppard]

Oooh! Imagine his response if they decide to make a stopover on an aircraft carrier. From Abigor's perspective the humans have basically built a giant armoured island that goes where they want just so that they can lanch their sky chariots.

No, we give him a tour of USS Yorktown at Patriot's Point, and then give him a tour of whichever CVN is at Norfolk.

[Academia Nut]

Medical treatment for the baldricks is probably iffy at this point, as one of the major surgical advances was the advent of effective anaesthesia. We're still iffy on their biochemistry so there's a good chance we might accidentally poison some poor bastard, and trying to do major surgery without some form of pain killer would be the equivalent of major torture.

[Darth Wong]

So what do all the demons in hell eat? Do they have some kind of meat farm as the humans aren't eaten as there needed for the energy.

They have domesticated animals which are unique to Hell (the cavalry Beasts). They must have areas where they raise such animals, and probably other animals as well. Perhaps they have demon cows.

Would demon cows have a delicious extra-spicy taste?

[JCady]

And JCady, those four hundred were what was left of his sixty legions, you know, the ones that got blown to pieces?

I'm pointing out that since he was ordered reinforce his survivors with women and children, he should have had more than four hundred unless that order only applied to his own clan as opposed to his entire command.

Sixty legions worth of women and children should be within an order of magnitude of size as the legions themselves.

[Darth Wong]

And JCady, those four hundred were what was left of his sixty legions, you know, the ones that got blown to pieces?

I'm pointing out that since he was ordered reinforce his survivors with women and children, he should have had more than four hundred unless that order only applied to his own clan as opposed to his entire command.

Sixty legions worth of women and children should be within an order of magnitude of size as the legions themselves.

He was ordered to reinforce his survivors with women and children from his own family. That won't add a whole lot of numbers, and many of the survivors might have died after reaching Hell.

[JN1]

You ought to know what I'm like for army nitpicks from TLW by now though

Nitpicks? What nitpicks would those be.

I suspect in reality Summer Challenge or something very similar would be used because it is there.

I agree. I looked at the earlier models because those were what I knew about, and I've just read about the raising of the New Armies. I think that some of the problems they faced would be similar to this scenario - shortage of uniforms, weapons, accommodation and training staff. It was found that there was no shortage of potential NCOs among the volunteers and on average the recruits were more intelligent than the pre-war recruits; recalled reservists were certainly impressed with the quality of recruit.

The TA model is known to work with the recruits that come in the door and trains them up to the standard required by the army, so that's what they'll use.

I guess the army will want to go with what works. It also sounds like probably the fastest way of getting trained recruits into the army.
I have also imagined that the army will be using the regenerative divisions (those that serve as District H.Qs), 2nd, 4th, 5th and 6th, as the basis for new operational divisions. I think they would also be looking at turning 19 Brigade back into a mechanised brigade and possibly 4th Mech back into 4th Armoured because it seems that heavy units are better able to deal with baldricks than light formations.
I think that the only lighter brigades to survive in British service may end up being 16th Air Assault and 3 Commando Brigades.