Why presume a future of Space exploration?

[The Guid]

As I understand the current ideas of Physics basically state that it is important to travel faster than light. Doesn't this mean that it will take the fastest craft even conceivable more than 4 years to reach the outskirts of the system around Alpha Centurai from Earth.

With that in mind isn't it surely more than probable that the future of the human race is confined to the solar system at best, with the sheer forces working against us making travel off the Earth itself for colonies more than unlikely why do people dream of a future where humans are spread across the universe? Is it pure fantasy or is there some basis for believing that we can get further than we currently are in terms of space flight?

[Patrick Degan]

It would give humanity more of an edge if it could spread to other stars. Even if it's in the form of one-way colonisation ventures, the more locales you can establish your species in, the more successful it is in the evolution lottery. FTL is unlikely but a large colony group in a fleet of habitats moving at relativistic velocities could venture to another system and set up shop there, in a system where there is again plenty of minerals and a star of reasonable stability and energy output to sustain a civilisation.

[Eulogy]

We dream off getting off Earth because we will eventually die as a species if we do not. If nothing else happens to us, then at least the Sun going Red Giant will roast the Earth and everything on it.

Even if FTL is impossible, we'll still try to colonize other planets anyway.

[Junghalli]

Laser sail ships could allow relatively relatively "convenient" interstellar travel if FTL doesn't pan out. The voyages would still take years, payloads would not be huge, and the number of ships sent per year would probably be sharply limited for the forseeable future, but it would be enough to sustain a steady trickle of each generation's misfits and adventurers going off to colonize other systems.

Eventually somebody would want to attempt a voyage to another solar system for one reason or another. Once we've colonized the solar system all the technological capacity will there, it'll just be a question of implimenting it. For a mature spacefaring society a slow interstellar ship might not even be that expensive; you might be able to build one by heavily modifying a commercial heavy-lift freighter or passenger ship.

[Junghalli]

An interstellar colony mission in a no-FTL universe is more likely to be a net economic loss to the home system than anything else. Interstellar colonization would have to be for incentives other than economic (e.x. people who want to go have their own planet to start over on away from the rest of mankind).

This means expansion will likely be rather slow. Though I still think sooner or later somebody is going to do it.

[RedImperator]

(e.x. people who want to go have their own planet to start over on away from the rest of mankind).

You could do this by building your own habitats in some remote orbit. That is the best you could realistically hope for around another star too; the odds of finding a suitable planet for colonization are very low, and even if you did, all your existing infrastructure you brought with you is in space (your ship), the cheap energy is in space (solar), the cheap materials are in space (asteroids)... going down to and surviving on the planet would not be easy, even if you found one and got there successfully.

Staying in space also opens up the red dwarfs. So long as they're stable (many are, unfortunately, flare stars) and have reasonably rich asteroid and comet fields, they would make as fine a place to settle as any other solar system--and red dwarfs will be around for a long time after all the other stars go dark.

[Ariphaos]

As I understand the current ideas of Physics basically state that it is important to travel faster than light. Doesn't this mean that it will take the fastest craft even conceivable more than 4 years to reach the outskirts of the system around Alpha Centurai from Earth.

I typically imagine it would take about forty initially, closer to 5 after an exchange program is set up. One setting I've only barely drafted is a galaxy of nigh-immortal humans making million-year pilgrimages to Earth.

[cosmicalstorm]

If we ever find a way to perfectly simulate reality using some kind of brain-computer connection, would'nt that mean we would lose all incentives to explore space?
Perhaps thats were all aliens went

[dragon]

Unless we have breakthroughs in technology colonization of space will take a long time. There was a study done by NASA a few years back that it was possible with our current tech to build a small generational ship but it would take decades to build and would bankrupt the U.S. Especially since we don't have many heavy lift vehicles anymore. Now once we have a few outpost on the moon that can harvest deuterium for fuel and power it would drastically cut down the price.

If it is a slow expansion outpost on the moon and eventually mining facilities in the asteroid belts then the cost would drop dramatically. Especially since some of these asteroids have enough metals in them to pay off our national debt.

So yes its possible to colonize space, is it going to happen anytime soon most likely not. But as the population of the planet grows more and more people will want to get away for a fresh start. After all look at some of the orginally settlers of the states they knew it was mostly likely a one way trip but they went anyways.

Oh that study NASA did also said that the colony ship would have a small chance of actually making it to a habital planent, especially since we have no idea where one is.

[dragon]

Oh and since I got in trouble for mentioning studies with no direct proof.
Here you go.

one
Clpha Centauri flyby
link

[cosmicalstorm]

No: space would still be good for gathering materials, energy, and scientific knowledge, if nothing else.

Those things can all be found in our solarsystem, I was thinking more in the way that it might stop us from interstellar travel.

[Patrick Degan]

No: space would still be good for gathering materials, energy, and scientific knowledge, if nothing else.

Those things can all be found in our solarsystem, I was thinking more in the way that it might stop us from interstellar travel.

Interstellar travel is no problem if you're not in a hurry to get anywhere.

[Paolo]

Solar power alone in the Earth sphere is five orders of magnitude greater than present consumption, the total output of the sun is a 1e14 times than that, and the volume of available space just in the region of Earth's orbit is staggering.

[Junghalli]

If it is a slow expansion outpost on the moon and eventually mining facilities in the asteroid belts then the cost would drop dramatically.

Interstellar colonization becomes much easier if you colonize your own solar system first, because in doing so you'll solve many of the problems you need to solve to be able to build a starship.

[Zixinus]

Solar power alone in the Earth sphere is five orders of magnitude greater than present consumption, the total output of the sun is a 1e14 times than that, and the volume of available space just in the region of Earth's orbit is staggering.

Yes, except that its a completely different problem gaining that solar power and transporting it to Earth.

[Darth Raptor]

Orbital collectors can beam it to the surface in microwaves, and space elevators can double as power conduits.

[Paolo]

Yes, except that its a completely different problem gaining that solar power and transporting it to Earth.

My point wasn't to deny the front end capital costs of space developmet, but to show that in at least one regime and just within the vicinity of Earth that the scale of available wealth dwarfs man's current consumption by several orders of magnitude and the breathing room to exploit it is even more immense. Once you've paid the 8 km/s surcharge just to get out of Earth's atmosphere permanently, 3 km/s plus some negligible change buys you the entire circumference at Earth's solar orbit. At that point, the cost bottleneck shifts to storing and forwarding power and material back to wherever your market is.

[Gullible Jones]

If we ever find a way to perfectly simulate reality using some kind of brain-computer connection, would'nt that mean we would lose all incentives to explore space?
Perhaps thats were all aliens went

Oh yeah, I totally want to shut myself off from this amazing universe I live in and set up permanent residence in a little synthetic dreamworld because... Uh... I forget why. But yeah, that'ws what I want.

Honestly, we as a species should be ashamed of ourselves if we end up like that. It would be like a thirty year old man living in his parents' basement, only a few million orders of magnitude more pathetic.

[cosmicalstorm]

If we ever find a way to perfectly simulate reality using some kind of brain-computer connection, would'nt that mean we would lose all incentives to explore space?
Perhaps thats were all aliens went

Oh yeah, I totally want to shut myself off from this amazing universe I live in and set up permanent residence in a little synthetic dreamworld because... Uh... I forget why. But yeah, that'ws what I want.

Honestly, we as a species should be ashamed of ourselves if we end up like that. It would be like a thirty year old man living in his parents' basement, only a few million orders of magnitude more pathetic.

Im just going to quote someone else who wrote about this a while ago.

Imagine how you'll react if you're in your holodeck and somebody interrupts you. Say, you're halfway through your chess game with Darth Vader, when suddenly he disappears, Scarlett Johansson is no longer sitting in your lap, and pizza costs money again. You'd find the guy who turned off the machine and snap his damned neck. Dilbert creator Scott Adams jokingly points out in his book The Dilbert Future that the holodeck, "will be society's last invention." It's no joke; once we had it, there'd be no reason to have anything else.

It's not just that it would be addictive; it's that it would literally fill every possible human emotional need and utterly eliminate all motivation to ever do anything ever. Everyone's only goal would be to do just enough work to keep food and electricity coming into the holodeck, to keep those interruptions by reality to a minimum.

People would stop reproducing, your virtual Scarlett Johansson could have perfect virtual kids who'll never wind up in jail or steal money from you to buy crack. If you get tired of them, tell the holodeck to blink them out of existence. If you're saying that you're a high-minded person who pursues spiritual goals and would never be sucked in by anything as crude as a simulation, hey, they've got a holodeck for you, too. You can sit down to dinner with Plato and Abe Lincoln and Gandhi and Jesus. If somebody yanked you out of that to go work at the post office all day, you'd barricade yourself in with a shotgun.

If aliens showed up to Earth 1,000 years later, they'd find an abandoned planet with ten billion mummified corpses laying on the floor of ten billion dusty holodecks, with huge smiles on their faces.

[/quote]

[brianeyci]

I spent the whole day thinking, gaming and reading about the space race, and all I have to say is there will 100% be another space race. It's only a matter of time.

Human beings are competitive animals, and eventually another power will rise to challenge the United States. It may not be in our lifetimes, but it will happen. If the US does not respect science and innovation enough, it will be dick waiving between the EU and China. The Chinese definitely want to get on the moon, and the EU perhaps with Japan will give China a run for its money.

The US will eventually get involved once it's clear China's serious and the EU's about to show them up. Either that, or another idealistic President will come on promising super science will fix America's ills (the military is full of engineers and America will revert back to the 50's and 60's when doctors and scientists were worshipped) creating another space race.

As for spreading to other stars, most people don't realize that with a single solar system the entire human race could move beyond scarcity and become near gods. A single asteroid contains more nickel-iron than mined by all of mankind in the asteroid belt, and there's enough land and energy for every human. It will just take a few hundred years, and a few more cock measuring contests between continents.

[Junghalli]

Im just going to quote someone else who wrote about this a while ago.

When VR becomes good enough to be apparently indistinguishable from reality I do see VR addiction becoming a big problem, but I think the need for companionship and meaningful goals will hopefully keep humanity from turning into a race of Matrix-addicts. Ultra-Realistic Simworld would be a fun place to visit, but I wouldn't want to spend my entire life playing in a solipcistic sandbox.

And, of course, you'll still have to pay for the thing, giving you a pretty good incentive to work if nothing else.

[Commander 598]

Im just going to quote someone else who wrote about this a while ago.

When VR becomes good enough to be apparently indistinguishable from reality I do see VR addiction becoming a big problem, but I think the need for companionship and meaningful goals will hopefully keep humanity from turning into a race of Matrix-addicts. Ultra-Realistic Simworld would be a fun place to visit, but I wouldn't want to spend my entire life playing in a solipcistic sandbox.

And, of course, you'll still have to pay for the thing, giving you a pretty good incentive to work if nothing else.

Yeah but, Ultra-Realistic Simworld would have all that...and you'd be able to work "in game" to "pay for it". (This is already a feature of some MMOs).

[cosmicalstorm]

Im just going to quote someone else who wrote about this a while ago.

When VR becomes good enough to be apparently indistinguishable from reality I do see VR addiction becoming a big problem, but I think the need for companionship and meaningful goals will hopefully keep humanity from turning into a race of Matrix-addicts. Ultra-Realistic Simworld would be a fun place to visit, but I wouldn't want to spend my entire life playing in a solipcistic sandbox.

And, of course, you'll still have to pay for the thing, giving you a pretty good incentive to work if nothing else.

Of course there would be companionship and such in this VR.
And having to work for it is not certain (ie post scarcity society).

[Darth Raptor]

With sufficient automation, a civilization that spends 99% of its time jacked into the internet or something would actually be more energy and resource efficient than umpteen billion biologicals running around, taking up space and eating stuff. As jar brains or computer programs, society's biggest problems become heat death and proton decay.

[Ariphaos]

With sufficient automation, a civilization that spends 99% of its time jacked into the internet or something would actually be more energy and resource efficient than umpteen billion biologicals running around, taking up space and eating stuff. As jar brains or computer programs, society's biggest problems become heat death and proton decay.

And government.

Anyone who gains control over a star's resources becomes the master of their domain, which can reach pretty damned far.