Richardson Endorses Obama, Hillary flip-flops

[Adrian Laguna]

Richardson as VP would really help with the Latino vote in places like New Mexico, Arizona, and Colorado. I was a bit worried that the Obama campaign would fall into the bullshit trap of thinking having anyone other than a white dude with military experience (Jim Webb comes to mind, though I seem to vaguely recall a reason why that would never happen) would help Obama with white independent voters. However, recent events make me think these worries may be unfounded.

And a lot of McCain's comments imply he is a warmonger, especially his waxing poetic about how unfair ROE were WRT to bombing in Vietnam and since, and how he always wished he could bomb other shit.

I don't know about "unfair", but I would call it stupid. It would have saved a lot trouble if from day one they'd just bombed the shit out of every single military target, rather than arbitrarily saying you can hit this airfield but not that one, or this SAM site is off limits but that one isn't, etc. Other alternatives included declaring the whole dammed country off limits, and dropping a claw of death on Hanoi.

[Elfdart]

Why do I get the feeling that Hillary is going to pull the same shit Joe Lieberman did when he lost the primary in 2006? Of course she has no chance to win a three-way race, but she can foul up Obama's efforts.

[Chris OFarrell]

She's already doing it. Dragging this whole thing out and refusing to concede, giving the Republicans time to get their hosue in order, to force them all to get behind John McCain, the RNC beating up on the very right wing elements who are still unsure and making sure they get behind their candidate. Or else.

She is also being an effective trial/error tester for the Republicans to find ways to attack Obama, which they just have to sit back and watch. Study. Learn from. Adapt. See what works, adjust their own tactics accordingly. Let the Democrats continue to spend their cash, their effort, their time while they carefully get their own house in order.

Clinton can't win, but her petulant refusal to simply bow out for the good of the party might, just might, cost the Democrats the election. And if the Republicans are able to get in for ANOTHER four years thanks to the bitch...

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

The MSM are helping Clinton as much as possible as well. They have a huge interest in horse-race politics and milking the drama as much as they possibly can. Two reasons, one obvious, one theoretical: Ratings, and they may truly hate the idea of Obama in the White House. He'll have their pool closed, as well as that of most of their megacorporate owners.

That's why they're doing Clinton's job of doing McCain's job for him. They're All Bushies!

[Qwerty 42]

If Clinton runs as an independent in November, McCain might as well not campaign at all and save the money for the inauguration dinner.

[Qwerty 42]

Clinton or Obama*, although from what I've read Clinton would be more likely to make an independent run.

[The Original Nex]

Oh enough of this paranoid "what if Clinton runs as an Independent" tomfoolery. Clinton isn't stupid enough to do that. She knows that she couldn't win in an election that divides the Democratic vote in half! The WORST CASE scenario is that she endorses McCain as Lieberman did, but that ain't gonna happen either.

Yes the Clintons are annoying, persistent and ruthless; but they are not about to ruin the Democratic Party for decades to come for their shenanigans.

[General Zod]

She knows that she couldn't win in an election that divides the Democratic vote in half! The WORST CASE scenario is that she endorses McCain as Lieberman did, but that ain't gonna happen either.

I don't have the link handy, but she's already stated that she thinks McCain is more qualified than Obama because of his "experience". If that doesn't smack of an endorsement I don't know what does.

[The Original Nex]

She knows that she couldn't win in an election that divides the Democratic vote in half! The WORST CASE scenario is that she endorses McCain as Lieberman did, but that ain't gonna happen either.

I don't have the link handy, but she's already stated that she thinks McCain is more qualified than Obama because of his "experience". If that doesn't smack of an endorsement I don't know what does.

I think that since we now know Sen. (John) McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that. And I think it's imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold...

I believe that I've done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that and you'll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy...

Not so much an endorsement for McCain as a backstab of Obama. For Hillary to actually give a full-fledged ENDORSEMENT to McCain if Obama wins the nomination would surprise me greatly.

[The Original Nex]

EDIT: Apologies, here is the link for the quote I provided

+http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/0 ... 90310.html

[Durandal]

She is also being an effective trial/error tester for the Republicans to find ways to attack Obama, which they just have to sit back and watch. Study. Learn from. Adapt. See what works, adjust their own tactics accordingly. Let the Democrats continue to spend their cash, their effort, their time while they carefully get their own house in order.

Actually, in that case, she's doing him a favor. If Obama couldn't wether Clinton's attacks, I'd have serious doubts about his ability to handle what the GOP will throw at him in the general election. As it stands, he's taken everything she's thrown at him and responded in a calm, measured way 100% of the time. He's never broken down in tears to get sympathy votes. He hasn't released scare-tactic campaign commercials. He directly addresses her attacks and says, "Here's why that's a load of bullshit."

The fact that this Reverend Wright thing has come up this early is a good thing. If Obama wins the nomination, people aren't going to want to hear about it in the general election. It'll be old news. And McCain would just be begging for Obama to enumerate the list of religious nutcases on his staff and who he's accepted advice and support from. I don't think McCain is stupid enough to open that door.

[Noble Ire]

Not so much an endorsement for McCain as a backstab of Obama. For Hillary to actually give a full-fledged ENDORSEMENT to McCain if Obama wins the nomination would surprise me greatly.

Exactly. Endorsing McCain, especially if he won in November because of it, would be political suicide, and Hillary knows it; I seriously doubt she'd make any headway in any Democratic contest ever again, presidential or otherwise (and I'm willing to bet she plans on taking another crack at the nomination in 2012 or 2016 if she loses it to Obama).

[irishmick79]

Not so much an endorsement for McCain as a backstab of Obama. For Hillary to actually give a full-fledged ENDORSEMENT to McCain if Obama wins the nomination would surprise me greatly.

Exactly. Endorsing McCain, especially if he won in November because of it, would be political suicide, and Hillary knows it; I seriously doubt she'd make any headway in any Democratic contest ever again, presidential or otherwise (and I'm willing to bet she plans on taking another crack at the nomination in 2012 or 2016 if she loses it to Obama).

Her chances at the presidency might realistically be already gone.

I really doubt the democrats would give her another crack at the nomination in 2012, and they definitely won't if Obama is coming into the election as an incumbent. I think her senate seat is up for re-election in 2012, and it will be interesting to see if she chooses to run for re-election or if she chooses to launch another presidential bid. I'll have a feeling that if she does ultimately lose the nomination, she'll face a lot of pressure to stay in the senate, especially if the republicans field a competitive candidate.

Basically, if and when she finally loses to Obama she has three career choices - 1.) swallow her pride, work with Obama and if he loses run again, possibly in a rematch against Obama, in 2012 2.) focus on her senate seat, 3.) run as an independent for president in 2012.

There's no way she'll run as an independent because doing that will most likely cost her her senate seat. I'd bet the democrats would pressure like hell to focus on the senate seat if Obama is the winner in November. If she loses the nomination this year, her only path to the presidency lies through an Obama loss in the General and a run against McCain (or his VP in case McCain opts to retire after one term) in 2012. Even then, depending on how Obama does, she could be in the running against an even stronger Barack Obama.

I think 2008 was supposed to be her year to get it done. She gets it done this election, or it's not going to happen ever.

[CaptJodan]

I think 2008 was supposed to be her year to get it done. She gets it done this election, or it's not going to happen ever.

Actually, I do get the sense via the way she's taking this whole thing that this is exactly the mentality she has. It was her election to win this year and everyone in the democratic party should have moved over and allowed her to win it. We see it with this botched campaign style she had in the beginning, where she didn't really have much of a hands-on approach. The campaign shouldn't matter. The nomination would be hers.

It really seems to me like she believed her own press. She deserved it. It was her time. The politico gods weren't going to deny her. It's kind of a scary mentality to have in a president.

[General Zod]

Apparently, Richardson is a traitor.

Who was it that said Hillary was all about surrounding herself with loyalists? Looks like they weren't too far from the mark. Even if someone in Hillary's current camp is denying it.

Another former Clinton White House aide, political strategist James Carville -- who is also a CNN political analyst -- told the New York Times in a story published Saturday that Richardson's decision was an "act of betrayal."

The endorsement "came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic," Carville said, referring to the Easter weekend.

On a Saturday conference call, Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said he did not share that assessment, telling reporters that "I don't think it's a question of betrayal. Anyone is free to endorse whoever they want for whatever reasons they think are appropriate."

Relevant bits.

[K. A. Pital]

Judas! And Hillary is the Messiah I guess. The circus writes itself.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I love the ridiculous parody of democracy and pluralistic politics that is literally uttered in explicit language from Team Clinton.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Wow, my respect for Bill Richardson increases:

"Well, I'm not going to get in the gutter like that," Richardson said. "And you know, that's typical of many of the people around Sen. Clinton. They think they have a sense of entitlement to the presidency."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/23/ ... index.html

Seriously, there must be some people who have been promised something in return for a Clinton presidency, for some to even act like that idiotic governor.

[Big Phil]

Has Obama ever come right out and addressed Clinton's argument that she should be the nominee because she's "won" the "big" states? Would it be too cerebral for him to argue that in the general election most of Clinton's supporters would back him (not McCain), and he would win those states in which he lost in the primaries?

[CmdrWilkens]

Has Obama ever come right out and addressed Clinton's argument that she should be the nominee because she's "won" the "big" states? Would it be too cerebral for him to argue that in the general election most of Clinton's supporters would back him (not McCain), and he would win those states in which he lost in the primaries?

His team has made the exact same argument (that winning New York and California doesn't somehow mean that Obama won't carry those states in the fall). So yes the Obama campaign has attacked the logic but it hasn't stopped the Clinton's from peddeling it. Mostly it is because at this point Clinton knows that what she does or doesn't do in the primaries left to be decided will have MINIMAL effect on her candidacy. At this point her only hope is the superdelegates and she is in a cash starved war for their attention and patronage.

[Darth Wong]

Has Obama ever come right out and addressed Clinton's argument that she should be the nominee because she's "won" the "big" states? Would it be too cerebral for him to argue that in the general election most of Clinton's supporters would back him (not McCain), and he would win those states in which he lost in the primaries?

When you're faced with an illogical argument that is being repeated ad nauseum, it may be more productive to redirect it than to try and attack its faulty logic. After all, most people do not recognize logic anyway.

Personally, I think they should be harping on the fact that Clinton has basically said that more than half of America doesn't matter. It's an incredibly offensive thing to say; why not go after her for that? The so-called "big states" are only big if the rest of the states are still in contention; you can't ignore them or worse yet, tell them to their faces that they don't matter. We've had almost two terms of a government that was only interested in the opinion of half the country; Clinton promises four more years of the same.

[irishmick79]

I think 2008 was supposed to be her year to get it done. She gets it done this election, or it's not going to happen ever.

Actually, I do get the sense via the way she's taking this whole thing that this is exactly the mentality she has. It was her election to win this year and everyone in the democratic party should have moved over and allowed her to win it. We see it with this botched campaign style she had in the beginning, where she didn't really have much of a hands-on approach. The campaign shouldn't matter. The nomination would be hers.

It really seems to me like she believed her own press. She deserved it. It was her time. The politico gods weren't going to deny her. It's kind of a scary mentality to have in a president.

I don't know if it was a case of her believing her own press (although I don't doubt that possibility at all). It's more that 2008 was the only presidential race where the math for a Clinton candidacy really made sense. She wouldn't have to give up her senate seat, she'd be running as a fairly well-respected senator against a wide open field, and she'd have a lot of ammunition to use against the Repubs thanks to the Bush legacy.

2012 is a different animal entirely because of the senate election. With Obama looking like the 2008 democrat nominee, it's hard to find a logical place for a Clinton candidacy in 2012, especially if Obama loses the General and chooses to run again.

A lot of Clinton's electability hinges on her reputation as an experienced and smart candidate. She needs the backing of the party establishment to lend credibility to that claim, and if she doesn't get it her road is much, much harder. She just doesn't have the charisma to create a groundswell of public support like Obama has.

Obama has severely damaged her reputation as an experienced, smart politician and with the senate election dynamic in 2012 I'd guess she'd be encouraged by the party leadership to stay in the senate. She might need to stay in the senate to rebuild her experience reputation. 2008 is the only election where I think she had a big core of the party leadership behind her candidacy (at least until Obama emerged), and I doubt she'll find the same degree of support in 2012.

The logic gets even more difficult for Clinton to run for president again if the GOP is able to field a competitive candidate in the senate election.

Realistically I think this election is Clinton's best shot at the presidency, and Obama has effectively crippled her presidential ambitions at this point.