New 'Bin Laden tape' threatens EU

[dragon]

Why isn't this guy dead yet?

Because bringing democracy to Iraq is far far more important than bringing justice to a murderer of 3000 American civilians.

Nah they don't want to kill him becasue then they have to find something else to keep the guillable Americans in fear.

[MKSheppard]

Come OFF it, Shep. The NIE has said AQ in Pakistan and NWFP is at pre-9/11 strength, and there's been many acknowledgments that if we weren't strained in Iraq, we wouldn't have been pushing off Afghanistan on Canada and allies.

First up; Afghanistan Pre-9/11.



Redrawn from a map by USAID showing where things were before we intervened.



This is things roughly today, to give you an idea of how things are tracking down; e.g. who generally controls what.

Now lets compare that to the ethnic groups in A-Stan:



And not surprisingly Pashtuns were the primary ethnic group represented in the Taliban.....and surprise surprise; the primary level of organization in Pashtun society is the tribe...with 60 major ones and 400 sub-clans.

Unless we decide to kill 50% of all the adult Pashtun males we won't ever really control Afghanistan.

Lets further compare this with where ISAF troops are:



You can see that the troops that are reliable, e.g. can be counted on to fight are deployed in the areas of high taliban/AQ Presence; with us taking the area near Kabul, and the British and Canadians the South. The unreliable units, the ones who sit in their bases at night, not even doing patrols of their perimeter (*cough* Germans *cough*) are in the safe areas.

Adding more troops is easier said than done. We have had to build an entirely new runway at Kabul International Airport, simply to support the 50,000 or so NATO troops in the country; and any real major expansion of troops is going to require significant logistical support from say...Pakistan, like actually letting us use a major port there to ship all the supplies in. That won't be happening for obvious reasons.

But anyway. We actually have 58,800~ "silent" personnel in the country. Of this, 28,600 are in the Afghan National Army, with another 30,200 in the Afghan Police. While they're not exactly high grade material, they are trained to a decent level of standard according to the UK MOD; and really, you don't need SPETZNAZ to control a road most places.

[Darth Wong]

Those maps are cool, but A-Q didn't exactly control all of that territory before. They were allied with the Taliban, but you can't really treat them as the same entity. And let's not forget that A-Q has moved a lot of its assets toward (and into) Pakistan.

[MKSheppard]

Those maps are cool, but A-Q didn't exactly control all of that territory before. They were allied with the Taliban, but you can't really treat them as the same entity.

Actually, we pretty much can. When an Al-Quaeda led unit, the 055 Brigade is part of the Taliban Army's OBAT; and many personnel of that unit show up within the Taliban Armed forces as "stiffeners"....well...

And let's not forget that A-Q has moved a lot of its assets toward (and into) Pakistan.

Yep; and we can't hit them. I almost wish that Mushuraff would get violently overthrown so we can (in no particular order)

1.) Hit the Taliban/AQ hardcore there.
2.) See Thermoatomic war between Pakistan and India.

[K. A. Pital]

See Thermoatomic war between Pakistan and India.

Some things never change.

Hit the Taliban/AQ hardcore there.

Pakistan is not exactly the best of nations to ally yourself with. Obama had a point when he said Pakistan is off the friends list and terrorists there could be targeted.

Attempting to do the same while shaking hands with Musharraf just makes the US look like idiots on the world arena; especially with those Paki strikes which the Paki leadership obviously denounces and then the US is left with... what options?

You really need to re-assess your relationship with Pakistan. But of course, Iraq which didn't have anything to do with the radical Islamists, pushtun militias and Al-Quaeda is now target uno! Remember, "fight them in Iraq" (in a place where the US singlehandedly created and called them all to get Jihadi on it's ass, instead of fighting them where they really are)

[Col. Crackpot]

EVERYONE is missing the point here:

The United States bombs the fuck out of radical Muslim people pretty much at will. The Europeans are disgusted, and regularly express their disgust for our bombing of radical Muslim people. Radical Muslim people still hate Europe. WTF?

[Lord Poe]

EVERYONE is missing the point here:

The United States bombs the fuck out of radical Muslim people pretty much at will. The Europeans are disgusted, and regularly express their disgust for our bombing of radical Muslim people. Radical Muslim people still hate Europe. WTF?

You really have to ask that?

[Col. Crackpot]

EVERYONE is missing the point here:

The United States bombs the fuck out of radical Muslim people pretty much at will. The Europeans are disgusted, and regularly express their disgust for our bombing of radical Muslim people. Radical Muslim people still hate Europe. WTF?

You really have to ask that?

It's a rhetorical. My point is if they hate us regardless, then kill the fuckers.

[wautd]

EVERYONE is missing the point here:

The United States bombs the fuck out of radical Muslim people pretty much at will. The Europeans are disgusted, and regularly express their disgust for our bombing of radical Muslim people. Radical Muslim people still hate Europe. WTF?

Err.. I think YOU missed the point. Obviously radical muslims find being bombed not as bad as dealing with naughty cartoons

[salm]

EVERYONE is missing the point here:

The United States bombs the fuck out of radical Muslim people pretty much at will. The Europeans are disgusted, and regularly express their disgust for our bombing of radical Muslim people. Radical Muslim people still hate Europe. WTF?

Err.. I think YOU missed the point. Obviously radical muslims find being bombed not as bad as dealing with naughty cartoons

Yeah, reminds me of this Stalin quote about how ideas are more powerfull than guns so why would you allow your enemies to have ideas if you don´t even allow them to have guns.

[Darth Wong]

EVERYONE is missing the point here:

The United States bombs the fuck out of radical Muslim people pretty much at will. The Europeans are disgusted, and regularly express their disgust for our bombing of radical Muslim people. Radical Muslim people still hate Europe. WTF?

You really have to ask that?

It's a rhetorical. My point is if they hate us regardless, then kill the fuckers.

You have to get out of your own situation and try to examine it from their point of view. Islam's base of power is in Africa and the Middle East. Both of those regions are treated pretty much the same way by Europe as they are by America.

George W. Bush has successfully convinced most Americans that this is entirely a war of beliefs. And certainly, radical Islam has some strange and violent beliefs. But it had those same beliefs 50 years ago, and they weren't trying to blow up Americans back then.

There is a real, physical, material problem with the way we treat the Middle East and Africa. We habitually cozy up to ruthless dictators because we value "resource stability", which is another way of saying that we don't really give a flying fuck what kind of monster you are, as long as you can keep the oil, gold, diamonds, or whatever else we want flowing at a reasonable price. We would, in fact, prefer a ruthless dictator over a populist leader if the dictator could get us a stable supply of his country's precious resources.

It's so easy to tell ourselves that MidEast anger against Europe and the US has nothing to do with our own conduct, and everything to do with the evil of Islam. And when you say things like what you just said above, you behave in exactly the way the radical Muslims accuse Americans of behaving. Do you think they recruit new members by chanting Koranic verses at them, or showing them pictures of American women who don't wear bur'quas? They recruit new members by showing them how the western world assaults and/or materially exploits the third world. That's what builds the rage they need to bring new members into the fold.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

[quote="The Malakand Field Force" by Winston Spencer Churchill."]Yet the life even of these barbarous people is not without moments when
the lover of the picturesque might sympathise with their hopes and
fears. In the cool of the evening, when the sun has sunk behind the
mountains of Afghanistan, and the valleys are filled with a delicious
twilight, the elders of the village lead the way to the chenar trees by
the water's side, and there, while the men are cleaning their rifles, or
smoking their hookas, and the women are making rude ornaments from
beads, and cloves, and nuts, the Mullah drones the evening prayer. Few
white men have seen, and returned to tell the tale. But we may imagine
the conversation passing from the prices of arms and cattle, the
prospects of the harvest, or the village gossip, to the great Power,
that lies to the southward, and comes nearer year by year. Perhaps some
former Sepoy, of Beluchis or Pathans, will recount his adventures in the
bazaars of Peshawar, or tell of the white officers he has followed and
fought for in the past. He will speak of their careless bravery and
their strange sports; of the far-reaching power of the Government, that
never forgets to send his pension regularly as the months pass by; and
he may even predict to the listening circle the day when their valleys
will be involved in the comprehensive grasp of that great machine, and
judges, collectors and commissioners shall ride to sessions at Ambeyla,
or value the land tax on the soil of Nawagai. Then the Mullah will raise
his voice and remind them of other days when the sons of the prophet
drove the infidel from the plains of India, and ruled at Delhi, as wide
an Empire as the Kafir holds to-day: when the true religion strode
proudly through the earth and scorned to lie hidden and neglected among
the hills: when mighty princes ruled in Bagdad, and all men knew that
there was one God, and Mahomet was His prophet. And the young men
hearing these things will grip their Martinis, and pray to Allah, that
one day He will bring some Sahib--best prize of all--across their line
of sight at seven hundred yards so that, at least, they may strike a
blow for insulted and threatened Islam.[/quote]

Malakand, of course, is in the Northwest Frontier.

Nobody can really sum it up better than Churchill why they fight. They are bitter, and they have much reason to be bitter. I don't blame them for it at all.

[thejester]

Why isn't this guy dead yet?

Because it's not worth the effort...killing bin Laden now is like shutting the gate after the horse has won the Melbourne Cup.

[Mr Bean]

Why isn't this guy dead yet?

Because it's not worth the effort...killing bin Laden now is like shutting the gate after the horse has won the Melbourne Cup.

Right, because you know the leaving the Mascot/Spiritual Leader of Al-Q alive is SUCH a great help to our strategy.

Or it might be because El-Presidente George W Bush, dismantled the group in the CIA and Pentagon charged with finding Bin-Laden at all costs. Not to say we are not looking for him, but before we had thirty people doing nothing 5 days a week but following up leads, making contacts and sending people around the world to track down possible locations of Bin Ladin, now if we happen across him all the better, if not well, then he dies of old age and becomes a symbol for all time.

It's not like we don't have a very good idea where he is PAKISTAN but you know, going door to door in that area is not politically acceptable.