source wrote:Britain, France Team Up to Export Nuclear Power
French nuclear plant at Belleville sur Loire.
France generates over 78% of its electricity from nuclear power, giving the nation energy independence as well as one of the lowest electric rates in all of Europe. The French success story has attracted the interest of Great Britain, which is poised to announce a joint agreement between the nations to develop and market nuclear power around the globe.
In a deal lasting 15 years, Britain will license four French reactor designs and train a large workforce in their construction and maintenance. The two nations will work together to market the reactors to nations around the globe. The designs will also eventually replace Britain's aging network of nuclear power stations, which today comprise 20% of the nation's electric supply.
The plan, leaked to The Guardian earlier today, is to be announced early next week at the "Arsenal Summit," when British Prime Minister Gordon Brown meets with French President Nicolas Sarkozy at the Arsenal Soccer Club in London.
The French company Areva, whose designs are included in the plan, already has deals to build reactors or sell nuclear products to many nations, including Finland, South Korea, China, and the US.
Unlike fossil fuels, nuclear power emits no greenhouse gases, making it an attractive option for nations trying to meet Kyoto's emission reduction guidelines. Unlike many other renewable sources, nuclear is also cost competitive with fossil fuels, making it a cheap and abundant source of energy.
The agreement is already drawing fire from environmentalists. Friends of the Earth called it "nonsense" that will do nothing to reduce climate change. The Sierra Club said nuclear power is "dangerous and irresponsible" and said the focus should be on wind and solar instead.
German officials were quick to follow the pre-announcement, claiming the country needs to follow in the footsteps of the UK-France agreement to avoid blackouts. The United Arab Emirates also pledged to invest more into its nuclear program within hours of the European announcements.
Hoooray . Wonderful news, a new workforce would be splendid alone, but increased new plants as well? .
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This is one of the reasons that democracy is overrated. The average person is too fucking stupid to make decisions like this, and would probably veto nuclear power because "Radiation! Scary!" That's why you need qualified experts making recommendations, and people who read reports based on those recommendations: something almost no regular people will do.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Will we ever be rid of the devil's pact made between nuclear disarmament activists and environmentalists?
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Illuminatus Primus wrote:Will we ever be rid of the devil's pact made between nuclear disarmament activists and environmentalists?
No, because they're usually the same people. It's not like the Republicans' unholy alliance of businessmen and fundies, who are often completely separate people in completely different social circles.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
If only the nuclear power industry could get the same PR/Spin Doctor hacks that the Oil Industry employs to keep environmentalists at bay all these years even after shit like Exxon Valdeez, etc. We really need to investigate how to make nuclear power more palatable for the average person because in the end, short term, it's the only way to go right now in terms of power generation with Oil going away. Its frustrating to see people just ignoring the fact that this is all slowly starting to end and we need to go find another option.
I had an older respected mentor swear to me that he just knew that the Oil people had some futuristic fuel cell sitting in storage somewhere so when oil finally did run out they would whip it out to make the change. They were just waiting to make as much money off oil as they could before announcing this new wonder.
I frankly believe that many people think there is a magic solution around the corner and that's why they're not that worried. Its too much to think otherwise.
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I think you can expect Americans to tolerate less bullshit when Energy prices start going up. It's probably going to be later in the game than most of the rest of the Industrialized World, but someone will realize the need to go nuclear.
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Darth Wong wrote:This is one of the reasons that democracy is overrated. The average person is too fucking stupid to make decisions like this, and would probably veto nuclear power because "Radiation! Scary!".
Personally I think this is why democracy needs a well-educated middle class to function. Just look at all those third world countries where that middle class doesn't exist. In theory suprisingly many of them have a well designed democratic system, but in practice it's a clusterfuck.
It's really like Churchill said: Democracy is the worst of all political systems, except for all the others that have ever been tried. So in the absence of alternatives our best chance is to try to make it work.
Brain_Caster wrote:Personally I think this is why democracy needs a well-educated middle class to function. Just look at all those third world countries where that middle class doesn't exist. In theory suprisingly many of them have a well designed democratic system, but in practice it's a clusterfuck.
It's really like Churchill said: Democracy is the worst of all political systems, except for all the others that have ever been tried. So in the absence of alternatives our best chance is to try to make it work.
The trouble even with educated people, is some might not know all the facts and just respond to fear. Some of the idiotic environmentalists happen to be educated, but that hasn't stopped them from being stupid.
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Anti nuclear idiots can go as far as attacking a nuclear plant in construction with missiles. So no cookies for them; and "Friends of the Earth" and "GreenWar" can go to hell.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
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Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The trouble even with educated people, is some might not know all the facts and just respond to fear. Some of the idiotic environmentalists happen to be educated, but that hasn't stopped them from being stupid.
Depends on how you define "educated". Some philosophers have argued in the past that a man who does not understand math and science can never claim to be educated. At best, he is only well-read.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The trouble even with educated people, is some might not know all the facts and just respond to fear. Some of the idiotic environmentalists happen to be educated, but that hasn't stopped them from being stupid.
Depends on how you define "educated". Some philosophers have argued in the past that a man who does not understand math and science can never claim to be educated. At best, he is only well-read.
It seems to be the opposite of what people currently call a "well-rounded" education which is heavy into the liberal arts and completely ignores math and science. That has always bothered me that specializing in poetry was supposed to make someone broadly educated. Not that arguing with my English teachers on this point ever made them change their minds or their attempts at brainwashing the students.
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Stas Bush wrote:Anti nuclear idiots can go as far as attacking a nuclear plant in construction with missiles. So no cookies for them; and "Friends of the Earth" and "GreenWar" can go to hell.
Wait, what? Missiles?
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Stas Bush wrote:Anti nuclear idiots can go as far as attacking a nuclear plant in construction with missiles. So no cookies for them; and "Friends of the Earth" and "GreenWar" can go to hell.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Stas Bush wrote:Anti nuclear idiots can go as far as attacking a nuclear plant in construction with missiles. So no cookies for them; and "Friends of the Earth" and "GreenWar" can go to hell.
Those who oppose nuclear power "because it's sooo dangerous" always baffles me, for example, the breach of the Banqiao Dam in China 1972 killed more than 170.000 people. That makes even the Chernobyl disaster absolutely dwarf in comparison, yet everyone knows about Chernobyl and none has ever heard of the Banqiao dam.
It's simply in the nature of energy-production to be a dangerous.
And carbons pollute the Earth far more than properly run nuclear plants: but NOOO, nukes are teh evil. Because we heard about this Chornobyl which was Hiroshima 10000 times and we're all dead!!! (the Chernobyl death toll is somewhere into dozens of people, hundreds if you take those striken but not dead). And well, even the Italy dam supertsunami killed more people than Chernobyl did, not speaking of Chinese dam breaches...
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...
...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Does any of it have to do with costs or maybe lack of profits also? I mean once we get to the commercial fusion stage are big business scared they won't be making the type of profits now with oil. Is it pure activist intervention that's the major hurdle in the western world?
"Somehow I feel, that in the long run, Thanos of Titan came out ahead in this particular deal."
Meest wrote:Does any of it have to do with costs or maybe lack of profits also? I mean once we get to the commercial fusion stage are big business scared they won't be making the type of profits now with oil. Is it pure activist intervention that's the major hurdle in the western world?
They'll make profit. The problem is that they have to be thinking on a ten year window, and most corporate executives aren't thinking that way. The average CEO is under tremendous pressure from the shareholders to make maximum profit now. CEOs are hired and fired because of quarterly earnings: each time they announce a bad earnings quarter, the shareholders call for blood.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:CEOs are hired and fired because of quarterly earnings: each time they announce a bad earnings quarter, the shareholders call for blood.
You know, that reminds me of classical Athens, where any turn of fortune could throw a popular leader into exile or push a disliked politician to the top.
Darth Wong wrote:This is one of the reasons that democracy is overrated. The average person is too fucking stupid to make decisions like this, and would probably veto nuclear power because "Radiation! Scary!" That's why you need qualified experts making recommendations, and people who read reports based on those recommendations: something almost no regular people will do.
And a prime example is that smug condescending twat, Alex Salmon who is Scottish First Minister who has declared...
"Scotland does not want nuclear power"
Well that's fucking great Alex, but I don't recall you asking anyone. I've lived within spitting distance of the Hunterston nuclear plants most of my life and I haven't sprouted two heads. Instead we're getting goddamn wind turbines everywhere.
I still maintain that outside that parliament building there should be a windfarm and a hydroelectric plant as theres enough wind and piss comes out of there to keep the country self sufficient.
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The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.
I'd rather we hadn't ran out own nuclear power industry down to the point where we need to bring in the French to get anything done, but I'll take what I can get. It's sure as hell better than relying on the power of positive thought (better known as wind power).
. Wonderful news, a new workforce would be splendid alone, but increased new plants as well? 
.
Because we heard about this Chornobyl which was Hiroshima 10000 times and we're all dead!!! (the Chernobyl death toll is somewhere into dozens of people, hundreds if you take those striken but not dead). And well, even the Italy dam supertsunami killed more people than Chernobyl did, not speaking of Chinese dam breaches...
