You can't kill the Messiah... (Kane's Wrath)

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2008-03-25 11:05am

Anyone else planning on getting the latest addition on the Tiberium Saga?

Zor

Oskuro · Post by **Oskuro** » 2008-03-25 01:24pm

Is C&C 3 worth it? I kinda lost my faith with Generals.

Zixinus · Post by **Zixinus** » 2008-03-25 01:38pm

Haven't the two sides rendered the planet inhabitable yet?

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2008-03-25 01:44pm

Zixinus wrote:Haven't the two sides rendered the planet inhabitable yet?

Nope. Getting there, though.

I'll probably pick it up when my life calms down a bit and I actually have the time for it.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2008-03-25 09:20pm

So how many fucking times has Kane been killed now? 5-10?

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2008-03-25 09:27pm

Well, if the cutscene at the end of Firestorm is anything to go by, which Kane?

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2008-03-25 09:52pm

MKSheppard wrote:So how many fucking times has Kane been killed now? 5-10?

Shep, Shep, Shep. Kane has never been killed, you silly fool. You can't kill the Messiah.

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-03-25 11:20pm

He's been "killed" twice, once at the end of C&C when he was vaporized by the ion cannon, and again when he was run through by McNeil at the end of Tiberian Sun.

Whereas C&C3 was a step back in the right direction after Generals, previews of Kane's Wrath make it seem more like Zero Hour (subfactions) rather than good expansion packs like Firestorm or Yuri's Revenge.

Andrew_Fireborn · Post by **Andrew_Fireborn** » 2008-03-26 01:34am

I like the concept of subfactions. I think if it were pulled off correctly, it could lend flexability to the play style of the main forces...

But I don't recall anywhere I've seen it done well.

That said, Kane has virtually sold every C&C game on shear charisma alone.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2008-03-26 02:26am

Andrew_Fireborn wrote:I like the concept of subfactions. I think if it were pulled off correctly, it could lend flexability to the play style of the main forces...

But I don't recall anywhere I've seen it done well.

That said, Kane has virtually sold every C&C game on shear charisma alone.

Subfactions can indeed add a lot. If you haven't yet, pick up a copy of the Shockwave mod for C&C Generals. It turns each of the subfactions into a much more fleshed out experience, as well as adding a new subfaction for each, and diversifying even the normal non-specialized sides.

If you don't want to clutter the game with 50 factions, having subfactions is a good way to fix things, really. I'd also like a game where I customize things, and a good idea was one Neph mentioned to me, where you'd have a War Factory with 4 Vehicle slots and you'd customize your subfaction before playing by choosing what you want available from those four options--and the pre-reqs would stay consistant (IE, if you choose the Nuclear Tank, you still need a Nuke Lab to build it).

Shockwave is, however, a good option. I think the problem with subfactions is that they usually offer one thing you like, such as a better tank, at the expense of two things you need, such as air sort of air-intercept capacity. And then you'll have that one jackass faction which gets a whole lot more than the other.

It wouldn't be real difficult. Look at Nod. Why do people like Nod? What are Nod's three big distinguishing features over GDI and the Scrin--both historically and essential to their character? Cloaking units, Powerful defenses, and overall Subterfuge. Why not make those the three Subfaction/General ones?

Why do things like "infantry general!" when the majority of tanks either run over infantry or ignore them until artillery blow the buildings into rubble? Why do "strategic weapon general!" when making their special power a better superweapon is obviously bad balance? Anyway, that's just my opinion. I'm all for fanservice. Pick what distinguishes the faction and makes people want to play it, and play up those features. Problem solved--usable, fun subfactions.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-03-26 02:33am

If you can't kill the messiah, is there any chance he'll just go away? Bye bye, Kane, enjoy the Aged Care Facility.

Subfactions are a good idea, even if just from the perspective of modders (ie, subfaction framework is useful even if the default subfactions are fucking hopeless).

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2008-03-26 06:24am

Zixinus wrote:Haven't the two sides rendered the planet inhabitable yet?

That's either a mistake and you meant uninhabitable (the answer to that being mostly yes) or it's not a mistake and you're asking if they've found some way to stop Tiberium growth (answer there being no, unless it happens in Kanes Wrath.)

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2008-03-26 06:27am

LordOskuro wrote:Is C&C 3 worth it? I kinda lost my faith with Generals.

Oh come on, how could anyone not like a game where the US side could build a Detention Camp and gain 'intelligence' from it (though for some reason that building was removed in the expansion).

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2008-03-26 11:16am

Stark wrote:If you can't kill the messiah, is there any chance he'll just go away? Bye bye, Kane, enjoy the Aged Care Facility.

Considering Kane doesn't appear to have aged a day in over forty years, I doubt he'll be visiting the assisted living facilities any time soon.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2008-03-26 11:36am

LordOskuro wrote:Is C&C 3 worth it? I kinda lost my faith with Generals.

The styling of C&C3 is far too cartoonishly stupid, the total graphics quality seems like a step backwards, the voice over’s make me wont to tear my hair out (I skip every cutsence, its pure pain) and the gameplay is just poor if you ask me. Save your money until its in the bargain bin or just never buy it.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2008-03-26 05:49pm

^To top it off, EA has still not fixed the bug that screws up synchronization with the cutscenes.

Listening to Grace Park yabbering about a NOD invasion is far less fun when Billy Dee WIlliams mouth is moving.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2008-03-26 06:36pm

Stark wrote:If you can't kill the messiah, is there any chance he'll just go away? Bye bye, Kane, enjoy the Aged Care Facility.

A pre-mission splashscreen with summarized mission objectives states; [size=0]without Kane's centuries of research, Nod can not match the technological progress of GDI[/size]

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2008-03-26 07:55pm

Xon wrote:A pre-mission splashscreen with summarized mission objectives states; [size=0]without Kane's centuries of research, Nod can not match the technological progress of GDI[/size]

Does that mean he WILL go away, so we don't need to put up with his slapstick impression of someone interesting? I know it's enough to convince all you fangirls, but seriously, he has one act and it was boring almost ten years ago when I was in highschool.

Darksider wrote:Considering Kane doesn't appear to have aged a day in over forty years, I doubt he'll be visiting the assisted living facilities any time soon.

Sadly, he *has* become far less interesting. Unless he actually does something new, it's just lame fanservice for the creaming fangirls. Given C&C3 itself this seems pretty unlikely.

Amusingly I can agree with Sea Skimmer - the cutscenes in C&C3 were awful. You might have 'actors' but they still have to 'act' - it looked like a student film. I mean, christ, the Act of War cutscenes were better.

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2008-03-26 09:58pm

Xon wrote:A pre-mission splashscreen with summarized mission objectives states; [size=0]without Kane's centuries of research, Nod can not match the technological progress of GDI[/size]

That's ridiculous. Did they completely forget Tiberian Sun?

Even then, since when has Kane been anything more than a extraordinary demagouge and politician? He's never shown any technical or strategic talent as far as I've seen.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-03-26 10:23pm

Thanas wrote:^To top it off, EA has still not fixed the bug that screws up synchronization with the cutscenes.

Listening to Grace Park yabbering about a NOD invasion is far less fun when Billy Dee WIlliams mouth is moving.

That's a straight CPU/GPU power issue, as far as I can tell. Their video player software is just unreasonably hungry for CPU cycles, and on a faster machine that doesn't happen. I only know this because I have several machines and the slowest one does that (or did, until I upgraded it), but the faster ones don't.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2008-03-26 10:31pm

Darth Wong wrote:That's a straight CPU/GPU power issue, as far as I can tell. Their video player software is just unreasonably hungry for CPU cycles, and on a faster machine that doesn't happen. I only know this because I have several machines and the slowest one does that (or did, until I upgraded it), but the faster ones don't.

The FMV cutscenes are 720p VP6 video, so it does require a good amount of CPU power to decode.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 2008-03-27 12:57am

TC Pilot wrote:Even then, since when has Kane been anything more than a extraordinary demagouge and politician? He's never shown any technical or strategic talent as far as I've seen.

You could sub "Hitler" in for Kane, and I'd say that ol' Adolf caused the world quite a lot of grief.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2008-03-27 02:13am

Darth Wong wrote:That's a straight CPU/GPU power issue, as far as I can tell. Their video player software is just unreasonably hungry for CPU cycles, and on a faster machine that doesn't happen. I only know this because I have several machines and the slowest one does that (or did, until I upgraded it), but the faster ones don't.

Then they royally screwed up the system requirements, because my configuration reaches their recommended settings. I should be able to get correct video playing on a machine with the recommended settings for the game. Instead I get to play the "let's match voices" game. May I ask what your specifications are?

And phongn, my computer plays every other 720p movie fine. It is just this one instance I have troubles with.

Adrian McNair · Post by **Adrian McNair** » 2008-03-27 03:10am

Thanas wrote:^To top it off, EA has still not fixed the bug that screws up synchronization with the cutscenes.

Listening to Grace Park yabbering about a NOD invasion is far less fun when Billy Dee WIlliams mouth is moving.

Hey, if you think that's bad try receiving GAME.dat and or "Direct 3D Out of Memory" errors after only five minutes of play (it seems to alternate between the two, giving me one or the other every time it dumps me to the desktop). It's especially frustrating since the game was completely stable for the entirety of the GDI campaign. The problem only cropped up halfway during the NOD one (specifically for the Sarajevo mission).

Has anyone else had this problem? I've updated my drivers and have the latest version of Direct X 9.0c but it's all to no avail.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2008-03-27 11:45am

After playing the game for a short time, allow me to state that the marked of kane subfaction requires a serious nerfing.

Their cyborg shock troopers are ridiculously overpowered. If you don't have air units, you can't stop them, period.

I was playing a global conquest game against a marked army, and I got steamrolled in less than three minutes, against an EASY AI.