Considering cost a "side effect" of medical treatm

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Broomstick
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Considering cost a "side effect" of medical treatm

Post by Broomstick »

Maybe I should just stop reading the news, it's fucking depressing. From Docs to weigh costs in choosing cancer treatment
WASHINGTON (AP) -- You've learned that you have cancer, and the doctor is discussing treatment options. Should the cost be a deciding factor?

Helen Geiger went without drugs for her multiple myeloma after her insurance copay changed dramatically.

Chemotherapy costs are rising so dramatically that later this year, oncologists will get their first guidelines on how to have a straight talk with patients about the affordability of treatment choices, a topic too often sidestepped.

"These are awkward discussions," says Dr. Allen Lichter of the American Society of Clinical Oncology, which is writing the guidelines. "At least we can bring this out in the open."

It's a particular issue for patients whose cancer can't be cured but who are seeking both the longest possible survival and the best quality of life -- and may be acutely aware that gaining precious months could mean bankrupting their families.

The prices can be staggering. Consider: There are two equally effective options to battle metastatic colon cancer, the kind spreading through the body -- but one costs $60,000 more than the other, says Dr. Leonard Saltz of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center.

What's the difference? The cheaper one, irinotecan, causes hair loss that makes it impossible for people trying to keep a job to hide their cancer treatment, he explains. The pricier oxaliplatin can cause nerve damage in hands and feet that might make it a worse option for, say, a musician or computer worker.

Saltz offers a tougher example: A drug for pancreatic cancer -- an especially deadly cancer with few treatment options -- can cost $4,000 a month. Yet while Tarceva has offered some people remarkable help, research suggests that extra survival on average is a few weeks.

"Is it a good investment, a high-risk investment, or buying a lottery ticket?" is how Saltz puts these choices.

Drug prices are a growing issue for every disease, especially for people who are uninsured. But cancer sticker shock is hitting hard now, as a list of more advanced biotech drugs have made treatment rounds costing $100,000, or even more, no longer a rarity. Also, patients are living longer, good news but meaning they need treatment for longer periods. The cost of cancer care is rising 15 percent a year, Lichter notes.

Make no mistake: Some of these newer drugs have greatly helped some patients -- Gleevec, for example, has revolutionized care for a type of leukemia -- and the prices reflect manufacturers' years of research and development investment.

Also, drug companies do donate a certain amount of medication to prescription-assistance programs that provide them for free to patients who otherwise couldn't pay. Since 2005, nearly 5 million people -- cancer patients and people with other diseases -- have been matched to such programs through the drug industry's "Partnership for Prescription Assistance."

But few patients get a Gleevec-style home run, and there's very little research that directly compares competing treatments to guide cancer patients on which might offer the best shot at survival for the money.

"As long as a therapy provides a benefit, it will tend to be offered to patients. Whether it's a small benefit or a moderate benefit, it may be offered with the same level of enthusiasm," says Dr. Neal J. Meropol of Philadelphia's Fox Chase Cancer Center, who is leading the panel writing ASCO's new guideline on how to weigh treatment costs.

The idea: Treat cost essentially as another side effect to weigh in choosing a therapy. Meropol has watched patients do those calculations on their own, like the colon cancer patient who asked to switch from oral chemo to cheaper but more laborious intravenous chemo, or the woman who refused a pricey anti-nausea drug that would make her chemo more bearable.

Even if doctors want to discuss cost, they may not know it -- it's not included in treatment standards. At a meeting of the standard-setting National Comprehensive Care Network earlier this month, Sloan-Kettering's Saltz and other doctors urged adding chemo prices to those treatment guidelines.

"If there's a need to spend it, let's talk about it. If we can do it just as well less expensively, I think doctors should know that and be able to make a decision," Saltz says.

Even the well-insured are feeling the bite as patients are having to shoulder a higher portion of the bill.

When Medicare began its Part D prescription coverage, retiree Helen Geiger of Whiting, New Jersey, paid for a premium plan and put it to good use when she learned she had multiple myeloma, a blood cancer. She said the plan listed the cost of her dose of Thalomid at $5,500 a month but her copay was $60 a month.

In renewing the prescription plan last year, the 71-year-old Geiger didn't notice that Thalomid coverage had been changed. It now was classified a specialty drug, costing a $1,051 monthly copay that she couldn't afford. She went several months without the anti-cancer pills, as her doctors at Philadelphia's Fox Chase Cancer Center and her family appealed to the insurer and then scoured charities in hopes of finding her free or cheaper drug.

Geiger finally stumbled onto a prescription assistance program that provided her free medicine.

"You don't need this kind of stress when you're sick," she says.
It's crazy that even people with insurance need assistance in obtaining the drugs required to treat them. Makes my isues with my Other Half's medication seem trivial in comparison. (We have a private arrangement with a doctor involving free samples for the most expensive drug)

Did you catch the bit where some people opt for a more expensive treatment for fear of losing their jobs and health insurance?

"Best health care in the world" my sweet ass - this is utter bullshit.
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Post by Gustav32Vasa »

What's the difference? The cheaper one, irinotecan, causes hair loss that makes it impossible for people trying to keep a job to hide their cancer treatment, he explains. The pricier oxaliplatin can cause nerve damage in hands and feet that might make it a worse option for, say, a musician or computer worker.
You can get fired for having cancer in the US?

The choice of these medications is easy, the cheaper one is better. It is better to lose hair then get nerve damage.
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Post by Zac Naloen »

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
What's the difference? The cheaper one, irinotecan, causes hair loss that makes it impossible for people trying to keep a job to hide their cancer treatment, he explains. The pricier oxaliplatin can cause nerve damage in hands and feet that might make it a worse option for, say, a musician or computer worker.
You can get fired for having cancer in the US?
Perhaps not (but it wouldn't surprise me), but people can be very vain.
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Post by General Zod »

Gustav32Vasa wrote:You can get fired for having cancer in the US?
No. Re-read the article. They're saying that people who want to keep their treatments quiet will find that it's impossible to do since the hair loss practically marks you as a cancer patient. For jobs where appearances are important this could be problematic.
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Post by Broomstick »

Gustav32Vasa wrote:
What's the difference? The cheaper one, irinotecan, causes hair loss that makes it impossible for people trying to keep a job to hide their cancer treatment, he explains. The pricier oxaliplatin can cause nerve damage in hands and feet that might make it a worse option for, say, a musician or computer worker.
You can get fired for having cancer in the US?
For the most part no, not legally - but we all know there can be a difference between what's legal what actually happens. Typically, management wanting to oust a cancer patient will find some other excuse (attendance, inability to keep up, whatever) to avoid prosecution.

Keep in mind, too, that for a small company just one cancer patient can vastly inflate the cost of health coverage for the entire company so there is definitely an incentive to get rid of sick employees, even if their illnesses are treatable and they fully recover.

The exception would be for certain jobs where appearance is paramount - professional model or actress, for example. And needless to say, this would be much more problematic for a woman than a man.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Re: Considering cost a "side effect" of medical tr

Post by PainRack »

Broomstick wrote: It's crazy that even people with insurance need assistance in obtaining the drugs required to treat them. Makes my isues with my Other Half's medication seem trivial in comparison. (We have a private arrangement with a doctor involving free samples for the most expensive drug)

Did you catch the bit where some people opt for a more expensive treatment for fear of losing their jobs and health insurance?

"Best health care in the world" my sweet ass - this is utter bullshit.
Just a nitpick. Won't this be just another form of rationing?
From what I read, there are guidelines in the NHS for which patients will receive the most benefit for certain therapies. More expensive treatments may be preferentially given to people who would be better off, such as the younger.
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Post by brianeyci »

If you can get fired the day before your national guard deployment by a boss who doesn't want to hold your job until after you get back from Iraq, I don't see why you couldn't get fired for having cancer.

Profit is the only motive of business owners. Every other objective can be traced directly or indirectly to profit, and anybody who thinks otherwise is naive or hasn't spent enough time with a successful business owner. I grew up around my dad who owned a small business, and you wouldn't believe the things done in the name of profit. What some consider unethical, firing employees who need a job but are completely incompetent, cutting corners, giving your customers the most crap of the crap food just to increase your profit margin, sucking up to the local authorities like police, is all part of the system. If an employee suddenly begins to lose money for the company, you can bet your ass that managers will invent some way to fire him. They are trained/live from the perspective that 40-60% of their workers are incompetent, and the only exception is when there's an industry-wide shortage of a particular trade. If there is a glut, or if anyone can do the job like fast food, be prepared to be fired for any reason whatsoever, with the company following only the minimum rules (for example, if the rules in your jurisdiction say two weeks notice for someone who's been employed for a year, they give you exactly two weeks.) Don't expect anything extra -- in fact, expect everything done from their perspective of mitigating extra hassle.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. Capitalism works best if private companies consider profit, and are reined in by a strong regulatory framework. But because the regulatory and underlying foundation of America hasn't been reinforced, it's allowed the corporate shills to go open season on America's workers. Business owners shouldn't have a choice whether to fire or not fire people with cancer -- there should be a single payer healthcare system from general revenues covering all American workers.
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