PDD: HttE:SE!

[Darth Wong]

OK, enough bullshit. Wayne uses Daala's ability to park her ISD's in the middle of a 7-blue giant nebula as proof that Athega was obviously no ordinary yellow star.

So how does Edam disprove this? First, he claims that they were far from the stars, but it was pointed out that they were in the middle of the cluster. Second, he claims that colour isn't that important anyway, even though it controls surface radiation intensity (he uses lots of hand-waving to distract from the fact that the stars are blue giants and hence fall into a certain size category, not just colour). Third, he claims that he was only trying to prove that there are some exotic yellow stars which can be brighter than some blue stars (notice the quiet subject change from the original seven blue-giant stars, not just one blue star of any size).

Did anyone notice how he looped upon himself? He is trying to disprove Wayne's claim that Athega must be some freak of nature by ... showing that there are freakish yellow stars out there which are even brighter than blue-giants! Congratulations, Edam. You just proved Wayne's point for him. Go pat yourself on the back

[Lord Edam]

OK, enough bullshit. Wayne uses Daala's ability to park her ISD's in the middle of a 7-blue giant nebula as proof that Athega was obviously no ordinary yellow star.

Maybe you should read Wayne's page a bit better

We can explain the perceived contradiction easily - Athega is putting out some form of exotic energy the other stars are not.

It's not simply a case of Athega being brighter than usual (which is possible) - Wayne believes there's something more exotic about it, that the reason it was damaging to ISDs whilst other stars aren't is that it was putting out more than the usual types of radiation for stars, which is clearly not needed.

The ISDs in the nebula could be several million km from each blue supergiant, but still be in the middle of the cluster.
The ISD at Athega could then be closer or Athega could be putting out mroe energy overall, so that the ISD gets more energy - No need for unscientific 'unknown exotic energy". All examples fit together nicely.

So how does Edam disprove this? First, he claims that they were far from the stars, but it was pointed out that they were in the middle of the cluster.

Further from the stars. As in, not so close that they are getting as much energy as they were from Athega.

Second, he claims that colour isn't that important anyway,

"Less important than the energy they are getting from the star", which became "unimportant" once I thought I've repeated the fact that relative distance is more important enough times that people would know what was meant. Obviously I was wrong in assuming people could actually keep up with the discussion.

Third, he claims that he was only trying to prove that there are some exotic yellow stars which can be brighter than some blue stars (notice the quiet subject change from the original seven blue-giant stars, not just one blue star of any size).

you'll note that was limited to the idiots who believed yellow stars must be less luminous than blue giants simply because they are yellow, clearly disproven by the fact that you need more than just the colour of the stars to compare luminosity.

Did anyone notice how he looped upon himself? He is trying to disprove Wayne's claim that Athega must be some freak of nature by ... showing that there are freakish yellow stars out there which are even brighter than blue-giants! Congratulations, Edam. You just proved Wayne's point for him. Go pat yourself on the back

No, Wong. You've changed Wayne's point, since in my example all the stars would be putting out similar radiation, whilst Wayne has Athega putting out some unknown exotic energy that no other stars do.

[Lord Edam]

Funny, all you managed to prove is that the brightest yellow star can be brighter than the faintest blue giant... what a leap you make implying that most blue stars aren't more luminous, only a few exceptions.

I think the fact that people keep concentrating on star colour and snipping things like

An ISD went near seven blue stars without getting hurt. An ISD also went near a yellow star, and WAS hurt.

Athega still proves ISDs cannot get close to stars. The case with the nebula just means the stars were less luminous or the ISDs were further away

or misrepresenting what's posted shows I proved far more than that.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Oh for fucks sake, look at the site i gave you, Rigel is a Blue SUPER GIANT and it has luminosity of 50 000 sol.Those 7 stars were super giants as are Type O and B stars.Im tired of this goddamn argument, we have an exact quote from the book saying what type of stars they are and then we have luminosity numbers for Blue SuperGiants from which we take the average luminosity for that type of stars.

Great. Some blue stars are more luminous than some yellow stars.

An ISD went near seven blue stars without getting hurt. An ISD also went near a yellow star, and WAS hurt.

Athega still proves ISDs cannot get close to stars. The case with the nebula just means the stars were less luminous or the ISDs were further away

Some Blue Stars? Well mr rocker scientist if yout take a look at that pic you gave línk to it shows that only ONE yellow star which undoubtly is an exception is less luminous than the faintest Blue star,allso once again take note that the 7 stars were Super Giants, not ordinary Giants so they would be at the level of Rigel. Allso that chart you gave, shows that Rigel would be 100 000 sol which is allready incorrect, and the only stars which are exceptions that are more luminous than the faintest known Blue Giant are Polaris and Betelguese. So you have failed to prove squat and you have allso failed to disprove squat.You desperately try to claim that those 7 blue SUPERGIANTS would have been very faint and at the level of Bellatrix.

[Lord Edam]

Some Blue Stars?

I provided examples of yellow stars that were brighter than examples of blue giants, thereby disproving your idea that a blue star must be more luminous than a yellow star simply because of their colour. Wayne later pointed out that what you were calling blue giants were infact blue supergiants. Fair enough. I admitted you would be right if that were the case

allso once again take note that the 7 stars were Super Giants, not ordinary Giants so they would be at the level of Rigel. Allso that chart you gave, shows that Rigel would be 100 000 sol which is allready incorrect,

Please note the HR diagram I linked to is a logarithmic scale - 50,000 Sol and 100,000 Sol would be very close together. That's why I gave a link to firmer luminosity date.

and the only stars which are exceptions that are more luminous than the faintest known Blue Giant are Polaris and Betelguese. So you have failed to prove squat and you have allso failed to disprove squat.You desperately try to claim that those 7 blue SUPERGIANTS would have been very faint and at the level of Bellatrix.

I see you still don't want to give this up, so lets get back to the original subject - the apparent contradiction between an ISD been in the middle of 7 blue supergiants(though at an unknown distance) without any problem, and an ISD been very close to a yellow star of unknown size and getting fried. The purpose of this is to specifically demonstrate that the two examples can fit together easily.

Assume: blue supergiants are 300,000 sol luminosity each.
Assume: Athega is 100 Sol (various official sources describe it as superhot, highly luminous, extremely energetic etc, so a higher luminosity than average isn't a bad assumption)

For sake of argument, we'll say Nkllon is 1 million km from Athega.
radiation intensity per sqr km would be 8e-12Sol

Ok, on to the blue supergiants. total radiant intensity = 7e-12sol. 7 stars, ergo radiant intensity per star ~ 1e-12 sol (per sqr km both numbers, of course)

from a star of 300,000 sol this results in a distance of about 144 million km, or 1AU.

Doesn't sound too unreasonable, does it? a cluster of 7 blue supergiants no more than 2 AU across.

Maybe Wayne's insistance that Athega must be a complete freak of nature is wrong, after all.

See, once we get past the red herrings of star colour we see I was right all along.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

I provided examples of yellow stars that were brighter than examples of blue giants, thereby disproving your idea that a blue star must be more luminous than a yellow star simply because of their colour. Wayne later pointed out that what you were calling blue giants were infact blue supergiants. Fair enough. I admitted you would be right if that were the case

Tell me,what is the difference between a giant star and a regular star?What is the difference between a Blue Giant and a Blue Star? Figure that out.

I see you still don't want to give this up, so lets get back to the original subject - the apparent contradiction between an ISD been in the middle of 7 blue supergiants(though at an unknown distance) without any problem, and an ISD been very close to a yellow star of unknown size and getting fried. The purpose of this is to specifically demonstrate that the two examples can fit together easily.

Correction, ISDs have been extremely close to 7 Blue Supergiants and their shields have had no problems.In Heir To The Empire one ISD sustained intense sunlight to its hull for several minutes, compare these, the Judicator took bombardment to its hull but Daalas ISDs had their shields up.

Assume: blue supergiants are 300,000 sol luminosity each.
Assume: Athega is 100 Sol (various official sources describe it as superhot, highly luminous, extremely energetic etc, so a higher luminosity than average isn't a bad assumption)

More like 50000-100000 Sol average. Your point about Athega? The Judicator took that to its hull,Daalas ISDs took the radiation to their shields.

Ok, on to the blue supergiants. total radiant intensity = 7e-12sol. 7 stars, ergo radiant intensity per star ~ 1e-12 sol (per sqr km both numbers, of course)

from a star of 300,000 sol this results in a distance of about 144 million km, or 1AU.

Doesn't sound too unreasonable, does it? a cluster of 7 blue supergiants no more than 2 AU across.

Maybe Wayne's insistance that Athega must be a complete freak of nature is wrong, after all.

See, once we get past the red herrings of star colour we see I was right all along.

Red Herring of colour?What the fuck have you been smoking, is it just everyones imagination that Blue Supergiants are the most luminous stars in existence? You can keep making yourself believe that the colour of the star with the size for example Blue Supergiant is completely irrelevant, dont expect anyone to believe you tough.

[Connor MacLeod]

There's also this regarding Athega and HttE:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... kllon.html

Of course, I can't wait to see Edam nitpick his way around THIS. (Of course, since it violates his "I'm more canon than anything else" policy, he'll probably just ignore it or claim the author of the book declared it non-canon.)

Reading Edam's BS logic reminds me of the Bacta War thermal detonator calcs - remember that Wayne?

[Lord Poe]

Did anyone notice how he looped upon himself? He is trying to disprove Wayne's claim that Athega must be some freak of nature by ... showing that there are freakish yellow stars out there which are even brighter than blue-giants! Congratulations, Edam. You just proved Wayne's point for him. Go pat yourself on the back

Did you also notice that instead of owning up to the fact that the blue giants were indeed SUPER giants, he laid the blame on another poster for not pointing that out! I think he hopes that "point" of his that worked "quite nicely" only does so if one is ignorant of the evidence in question!

[Lord Poe]

OK, enough bullshit. Wayne uses Daala's ability to park her ISD's in the middle of a 7-blue giant nebula as proof that Athega was obviously no ordinary yellow star.

Maybe you should read Wayne's page a bit better

We can explain the perceived contradiction easily - Athega is putting out some form of exotic energy the other stars are not.

It's not simply a case of Athega being brighter than usual (which is possible) - Wayne believes there's something more exotic about it, that the reason it was damaging to ISDs whilst other stars aren't is that it was putting out more than the usual types of radiation for stars, which is clearly not needed.

Dr. Saxton seems to agree with my assessment- there's something strange about Athega.

The ISDs in the nebula could be several million km from each blue supergiant, but still be in the middle of the cluster.

This is your hoped-for scenario, so we wouldn't be able to compare it to the HttE example. Yet while I offer every single shred of evidence that shows that those Star Destroyers were in the middle of the nebula, and so were the knot of seven super-giant blue stars, you haven't offered one single piece of evidence from that novel that even remotely hints at your POV. You want to move those ISDs several million km away from the stars, but you have NOTHING to support such a fantasy.

In the face of all the evidence, you are wrong. But as usual, you'll never admit it; instead you'll go with the "coulda woulda shoulda" argument.

The ISD at Athega could then be closer or Athega could be putting out mroe energy overall, so that the ISD gets more energy - No need for unscientific 'unknown exotic energy". All examples fit together nicely.

Except the one you are trying to shy away from: and that'd the Haaarsk's Planet example in Darksaber. Which is exactly like the Nkllon example in nearly every single detail, excelt the star in question is a RED GIANT.

No, Wong. You've changed Wayne's point, since in my example all the stars would be putting out similar radiation, whilst Wayne has Athega putting out some unknown exotic energy that no other stars do.

Given the fact that the Dark Apprentice example AND the Darksaber example show that ISDs have no trouble with high energy stars in very close proximity, that is the only logical conclusion.

[Connor MacLeod]

Mike: In your original Athega/HttE analysis you posited that the planet Nkllon was very close to the sun - I remember Wayne having this image on his site:

http://h4h.com/louis/sw7a.jpg

Which is from the HTTE comic - would that qualify as justifying your claim?


Wayne: I wanted to add something else. The same Star in the SW comic "Classic Star Wars vol 3" - http://h4h.com/louis/exe1.jpg and http://h4h.com/louis/exe2.jpg - not only was the Executor in close proximity - but I did check the comic - the FALCON was able to lurk close to that sun (close enough that an orange glow was cast over the hull - ) there was similar incidents with some Star Destroyers I believe as well - and the Rebel fleet HAD to pass by that sun in order to make a hyperspace jump.

[Lord Edam]

Tell me,what is the difference between a giant star and a regular star?What is the difference between a Blue Giant and a Blue Star? Figure that out.

What is the point ofthis question? can you prove Athega is a regular star, or is that merely your assumption? Of course, some of the other examples of ships near stars Wayne gave would be regular stars (the classic starwars example is one), and they show your original point quite nicely. I just point out other examples where your ideas fail.

Correction, ISDs have been extremely close to 7 Blue Supergiants and their shields have had no problems.In Heir To The Empire one ISD sustained intense sunlight to its hull for several minutes, compare these, the Judicator took bombardment to its hull but Daalas ISDs had their shields up.

Rather than assuming the ISDs in HttE were unshielded, how about trying to prove it?

Assume: blue supergiants are 300,000 sol luminosity each.
Assume: Athega is 100 Sol (various official sources describe it as superhot, highly luminous, extremely energetic etc, so a higher luminosity than average isn't a bad assumption)

More like 50000-100000 Sol average. Your point about Athega?

So my supergiants are too super - infact, the ISD could be even closer to that stars than the 1AU I ended up at. Thanks.

My point about Athega is that it needn's be overly large to arrive at what I was saying.

Red Herring of colour?

Yes. Even when I post numbers that do not include the colour you bring it up, drawing attention away from the original discussion.

What the fuck have you been smoking, is it just everyones imagination that Blue Supergiants are the most luminous stars in existence?

And still you continue. I've demonstrated a star of lesser luminosity can be more damaging, but still you refuse to accept this.

You can keep making yourself believe that the colour of the star with the size for example Blue Supergiant is completely irrelevant, dont expect anyone to believe you tough.

I note you continue with this ridiculous strawman. I said the colour was less important than distance from the star, and I have proven this twice. Once in the post you have just quoted.

[Lord Edam]

Dr. Saxton seems to agree with my assessment- there's something strange about Athega.

Considering the power of a star destroyer's shields and weapons demonstrated in the films, comparable to nuclear explosions, the emissions of Athega must be truly unusual. This cannot be an ordinary main-sequence star

No, it can be above the main sequence but still putting out the same radiation as other stars - the radiation characterised by a black body. No need for unscientific bullshit about exotic energy.
The numbers I posted above support this, infact.

The ISDs in the nebula could be several million km from each blue supergiant, but still be in the middle of the cluster.

This is your hoped-for scenario, so we wouldn't be able to compare it to the HttE example. Yet while I offer every single shred of evidence that shows that those Star Destroyers were in the middle of the nebula, and so were the knot of seven super-giant blue stars, you haven't offered one single piece of evidence from that novel that even remotely hints at your POV.

Wayne, I have provided numbers where the ISDs are not only in the middle of the nebula they are in the middle of the cluster. it doesn't get much closer to your desired scenario than that.

You want to move those ISDs several million km away from the stars, but you have NOTHING to support such a fantasy.

points to numbers posted earlier.

Except the one you are trying to shy away from: and that'd the Haaarsk's Planet example in Darksaber. Which is exactly like the Nkllon example in nearly every single detail, excelt the star in question is a RED GIANT.

Except it isn't exaclty like the nkllon example. It is SIMILAR, and you make assumptions about it that create contradictions when none are required.

Given the fact that the Dark Apprentice example AND the Darksaber example show that ISDs have no trouble with high energy stars in very close proximity, that is the only logical conclusion.

As the numbers posted above show, there are more logical, extremely scientific conclusions. No need for your unscientific "unknown exotic energy" bullshit.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

What is the point ofthis question? can you prove Athega is a regular star, or is that merely your assumption? Of course, some of the other examples of ships near stars Wayne gave would be regular stars (the classic starwars example is one), and they show your original point quite nicely. I just point out other examples where your ideas fail.

Offcourse its not a regular star, hence the inefficiency of Judicators shields angaist the radiation.

Rather than assuming the ISDs in HttE were unshielded, how about trying to prove it?

Or you try to prove that the Judicator was shieldied.Lets look at the facts shall we, Thrawn says that the Judicator will be in direct sunlight for several minutes and the ships hull can surely take that, interesting that he did not say a word about shields efficiency angainst the radiation.Some try to claim that the reason why Thrawn did not mention shields was because the shields would be immidietly overwhelmed by the radiation, this claim does not hold water because SW shielding has dozens or perhaps even hundreds of times better energy absorption capability than the hulls of the ships, this fact will immidietly debunk any claim that the shields would have been immidietly overwhelmed but the hull would have lasted longer under the radiation bombardment.What allso is interesting that not a single source that speaks of Athega says a word about shield performance angainst the radiation, Heir To The Empire sourcebook mentions that any shielding will be quickly melted by the radiation, considering that energy shields cannot be melted this meant material shielding like extra armour etcetera.What allso is interesting is that rather than ordering modifications on the Judicator that would increase its shield power he ordered extra material shielding like the viewports covered and external sensors removed.

Yes. Even when I post numbers that do not include the colour you bring it up, drawing attention away from the original discussion.

You posted numbers of stars that are known exceptions, they are the exceptions, not the rule.

[/quote]And still you continue. I've demonstrated a star of lesser luminosity can be more damaging, but still you refuse to accept this.

Yes you gave one Blue Star which was less luminous than one exceptionally luminous Yellow star.Please tell me, how this exceptionally dimm Blue Star applies as a rule to your claim that the colour is meaningless.And as i have demonstrated, a class B star which is the middle class of Blue Stars and which is a Blue SUPERGIANT has luminosity of 50 000 sol.No i dont refuse to accept that one exceptionally bright Yellow star can be brighter than one exceptionally dimm Blue Star, please how does this apply to Blue Supergiants which still are the brightest known stars in existence?

I note you continue with this ridiculous strawman. I said the colour was less important than distance from the star, and I have proven this twice. Once in the post you have just quoted.

In a way yes the distance is more important.Offcourse a ship only 10000km from an exceptionally bright Yellow Star is going to absorb more energy than a ship 50 AU away from one exceptionally dimm blue star.

[Lord Edam]

Offcourse its not a regular star, hence the inefficiency of Judicators shields angaist the radiation.

So there's somethign special about the star. an unknown exotic energy that no other star emits. HAng on... I've already disproven that unscientific bullshit.

Or you try to prove that the Judicator was shieldied.Lets look at the facts shall we, Thrawn says that the Judicator will be in direct sunlight for several minutes and the ships hull can surely take that, interesting that he did not say a word about shields efficiency angainst the radiation.Some try to claim that the reason why Thrawn did not mention shields was because the shields would be immidietly overwhelmed by the radiation, this claim does not hold water because SW shielding has dozens or perhaps even hundreds of times better energy absorption capability than the hulls of the ships, this fact will immidietly debunk any claim that the shields would have been immidietly overwhelmed but the hull would have lasted longer under the radiation bombardment.

Hang on... if the hull can just about take the energy from the star (it wasn't overly damaged), and the shields are so much more resilient, then the shields should have protected the ship against all damage. So, why not have the shields up and save all damage, rather than have to go to all that trouble of removing sensors and other systems? No, clearly the shields were up but were slightly overwhelmed, with the bleedthrough damaging enough to the hull that they did have totake precautions.

What allso is interesting that not a single source that speaks of Athega says a word about shield performance angainst the radiation, Heir To The Empire sourcebook mentions that any shielding will be quickly melted by the radiation, considering that energy shields cannot be melted this meant material shielding like extra armour etcetera.

Or you don't interpret the quote literally and the shields are melted away by the energy - a gradual reduction of effectiveness until they are non existant. No need to always take the technical meaning of the word (in this case heat until it turns from solid to liquid)

What allso is interesting is that rather than ordering modifications on the Judicator that would increase its shield power he ordered extra material shielding like the viewports covered and external sensors removed.

Which wouldn't have been required if the shields are as resilient as you seem to believe. Clearly, the shields could not handle the power from Athega.

You posted numbers of stars that are known exceptions, they are the exceptions, not the rule.

I supplied numbers that were far higher than you told me I should use for blue supergiants, and still it turned out in my favour.

And still you continue. I've demonstrated a star of lesser luminosity can be more damaging, but still you refuse to accept this.

Yes you gave one Blue Star which was less luminous than one exceptionally luminous Yellow star.

:looks up

No, I gave a blue star that was far more luminous than your "typical example" and a yellow star that was 1000 times less luminous than the blue star I used - and STILL the numbers turned out in myfavour.

Good god, man. No wonder you're dragging this on so long. You've just completely ignored a post you read & quoted only a few hours ago.

In a way yes the distance is more important.Offcourse a ship only 10000km from an exceptionally bright Yellow Star is going to absorb more energy than a ship 50 AU away from one exceptionally dimm blue star.

Or, as I showed, a ship 1AU from seven stars 6x brighter than your average for blue stars gets less energy than a ship 1 million km from a moderately bright yellow star

You keep ignoring what I've posted in favour of what you wish I wrote. Even when quoting posts where I point out you are doing this you continue to do it.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

So there's somethign special about the star. an unknown exotic energy that no other star emits. HAng on... I've already disproven that unscientific bullshit.

How exactly have you disproved it? Allso does hyperspace exist? Allso are you seriously trying to claim that man knowns the exact specifications of every single star in the sky? Talk about unscientific bullshit.

Hang on... if the hull can just about take the energy from the star (it wasn't overly damaged), and the shields are so much more resilient, then the shields should have protected the ship against all damage. So, why not have the shields up and save all damage, rather than have to go to all that trouble of removing sensors and other systems? No, clearly the shields were up but were slightly overwhelmed, with the bleedthrough damaging enough to the hull that they did have totake precautions.

No Thrawn specifically said that the Judicator could easilly take direct sunlight from Athega to its hull for several minutes, he said nothing like barely or just about. And yes shields are much more resilient which is the problem in this case. The most likely reason why the shields were not up and why there is no mention of them anywhere is simple, they cannot stop the radiation from Athega for some reason. The reason for the extra protection for the hull is simple,since shields are useless then the hull has to withstand the radiation. Please elaborate how they were clearly up. Slightly overhwelmed? Bleedthrough? Talk about bullshit, the problem with your bleedthrough theory is that bleedthrough can occur when the shield has taken very high amounts of energy to very small areas, in this case the radiation would be evenly dispersed all over the shield of the ISD.

Or you don't interpret the quote literally and the shields are melted away by the energy - a gradual reduction of effectiveness until they are non existant. No need to always take the technical meaning of the word (in this case heat until it turns from solid to liquid)

Oh please, if the quote directly says "...intense enough to melt any shielding" what kind of fucking moron would use the word melt when talking about overwhelming energy shielding? C'moon how the hell can you melt a barrier of energy? Technical meaning of the word? Well the only meaning for word melt is heating until turning from solid to liquid.

Which wouldn't have been required if the shields are as resilient as you seem to believe. Clearly, the shields could not handle the power from Athega.

Uhm..nope, if the shields even could stop the radiation then there would have been no need for extra hull protection.If the shields could have stopped the radiation and since shields have better energy absorption than the hull, then the most logical course of action would have been to perhaps place some extra shield generators in the ship or boost energy to the existing ones. Again please elaborate this clearly? If shields have better energy absorption than the hull and bleedthrough did not occur, how can the hull last longer than the shields?

I supplied numbers that were far higher than you told me I should use for blue supergiants, and still it turned out in my favour.

How exactly, Rigel which is a normal Blue Supergiant had luminosity of 50 000 sol which is more than the stars you gave.

No, I gave a blue star that was far more luminous than your "typical example" and a yellow star that was 1000 times less luminous than the blue star I used - and STILL the numbers turned out in myfavour.

How the hell can 2000 Sol be far more luminous than the average of 20 000 sol?And since you have shown no calculations whatsoever and still speak of numbers, perhaps you should clear your head of any crack you are smoking.

Or, as I showed, a ship 1AU from seven stars 6x brighter than your average for blue stars gets less energy than a ship 1 million km from a moderately bright yellow star

Correct, but what is the problem here? We know that Daalas ISDs most likely were in the middle of the 7 Blue Supergiants, but the ships going to Nkllon were for the sake of argument some of 1 million km away from Athega. Now since there is not a single Yellow star in existence that would put out more energy than 7 average Blue Supergiants, you see what is the problem.

[Lord Edam]

So there's somethign special about the star. an unknown exotic energy that no other star emits. HAng on... I've already disproven that unscientific bullshit.

How exactly have you disproved it?

I've disproven the unscientific "unknown exotic energy that no other star emits" by demonstrating we can have the same effects from stars that are just stars.

Allso does hyperspace exist?

Red herring. Hyperspace is not being discussed here

Allso are you seriously trying to claim that man knowns the exact specifications of every single star in the sky? Talk about unscientific bullshit.

We have a very good understanding of stars and the radiation they emit. I've demonstrated there is no need for Athega to put out different, more exotic forms of energy to other stars

No Thrawn specifically said that the Judicator could easilly take direct sunlight from Athega to its hull for several minutes, he said nothing like barely or just about.

Yet the ship was taking damage and had to be repaired afterwards, did it not? Hardly indicative of something that's shrugging off the energy without problem. And, is this the energy thehull is absorbing because the shields are not up, or the energy the hull is absorbing because it is bleeding through the shields? Either is very possible. One has us asking why the shields weren't up. the other doesn't have that problem.

And yes shields are much more resilient which is the problem in this case.

It is a problem for you. I've already explained it. The energy from Athega is mildly above the threshold of the shields, so that the excess is bleeding through and damaging the hull. This explains why Thrawn says the hull can take it, without including the problems of why the supreme stratageist was too stupid to think of raising shields.

The most likely reason why the shields were not up and why there is no
mention of them anywhere is simple, they cannot stop the radiation from Athega for some reason.

You have two choices - they don't stop the radiation because it's too high for them. This is basically what I've said, though I say the shields are up, and it is simply the excess over their threshold that damages the hull. OR, alternatively, you can assume Athega has some strange, exotic radiation unlike any other star, which is unscientific and adding unknowns when they are not needed.

the problem with your bleedthrough theory is that bleedthrough can occur when the shield has taken very high amounts of energy to very small areas, in this case the radiation would be evenly dispersed all over the shield of the ISD.

Bleed through can occur when shields are overwhelmed. In most cases, this is concentrated fire to small areas. In some cases, though, if the energy is spread over the entire shield area and is greater than the shields can handle you'll probably get a similar effect over the entire shields.

Oh please, if the quote directly says "...intense enough to melt any shielding" what kind of fucking moron would use the word melt when talking about overwhelming energy shielding? C'moon how the hell can you melt a barrier of energy? Technical meaning of the word? Well the only meaning for word melt is heating until turning from solid to liquid.

"sugar melts in water"
"the crowd melted away after the rally"
"sea melted into sky along the horizon"
"our hearts melted at the child's tears"
"The tide melted our sand castle away"
“Here individuals of all races are melted into a new race of men”

courtesy of http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=melt

I supplied numbers that were far higher than you told me I should use for blue supergiants, and still it turned out in my favour.

How exactly, Rigel which is a normal Blue Supergiant had luminosity of 50 000 sol which is more than the stars you gave.

Don't lie. It's on the very same page as the post you just quoted.

"Assume: blue supergiants are 300,000 sol luminosity each.
Assume: Athega is 100 Sol (various official sources describe it as superhot, highly luminous, extremely energetic etc, so a higher luminosity than average isn't a bad assumption) "

FYI, 300,000 is greater than 50,000. Six times greater, infact.

How the hell can 2000 Sol be far more luminous than the average of 20 000 sol?

How the hell can 300,000 sol be mis-read of 2000 sol? Oh, that's right. You are talking about the posts I made back before it was shown the blue supergiants were supergiants rather than the giants you kept calling them.

And since you have shown no calculations whatsoever and still speak of numbers, perhaps you should clear your head of any crack you are smoking.

Points to earlier posts.

OK, I didn't show actual calcs, I showed the numbers I started off with and the numbers I ended up with and assumed you could work it out yourself. Obviously I was wrong, since you seem to believe 300,000 is less than 50,000. Ho hum. If you're that much of an idiot you probably wouldn't udnerstand the calcs even if I posted them.

Or, as I showed, a ship 1AU from seven stars 6x brighter than your average for blue stars gets less energy than a ship 1 million km from a moderately bright yellow star

Correct, but what is the problem here?

I don't know. You keep insisting I haven't proven this, so maybe you should tell me what the problem is.

We know that Daalas ISDs most likely were in the middle of the 7 Blue Supergiants, but the ships going to Nkllon were for the sake of argument some of 1 million km away from Athega. Now since there is not a single Yellow star in existence that would put out more energy than 7 average Blue Supergiants, you see what is the problem.

You are a fucking idiot. I've shown you how a yellow star over 1000 times less luminous than seven blue giants can cause more damage to an ISD. It all lies on the distance of the ISD from the stars, as I have stated in every post, as you have ignored in every post.
I'm sure you'll ignore it here, as well, in favour of your continuing delusions.

[Lord Poe]

And strangely enough, Edam, you continue to ignore direct evidence that is contrary toi your claims. On top of that, you fail to show why the simplest explanation- something unusual about Athega vs. your desperate straw grabbing "well, it could be this and this and this...and oh..this! (point to other posts)" is superior. =Looks around+ Funny...no one's buying it. Again.

And I see you still can't help but gloss over the "similarities" of the Nkllon example vs. Harrsk's planet example. Eh. Maybe Darkstar will buy it.

[Connor MacLeod]

And strangely enough, Edam, you continue to ignore direct evidence that is contrary toi your claims. On top of that, you fail to show why the simplest explanation- something unusual about Athega vs. your desperate straw grabbing "well, it could be this and this and this...and oh..this! (point to other posts)" is superior. =Looks around+ Funny...no one's buying it. Again.

And I see you still can't help but gloss over the "similarities" of the Nkllon example vs. Harrsk's planet example. Eh. Maybe Darkstar will buy it.

Thats because Edam said so. EDAM SAID SO! You know as well as I do that Edam rates higher than EU or canon evidence in the SW universe. So he really won the debate, even if you don't realize it.