When were homosexuality accepted in society?

[Zablorg]

As part of a project I am doing for school I have to find out around what period gays were accepted into mainstream society. I looked up the sexual revolution in the 60's but I discovered that even then they were still treated as 'icky' by most people. Was it an officially recognized thing or did it just sort of gradually grow within the culture?

[Superman]

As part of a project I am doing for school I have to find out around what period gays were accepted into mainstream society. I looked up the sexual revolution in the 60's but I discovered that even then they were still treated as 'icky' by most people. Was it an officially recognized thing or did it just sort of gradually grow within the culture?

You're talking about American society?

[Koolaidkirby]

well if your referring to history in general there were many periods were homosexuality was widespread, ancient Greece comes to mind as probably the most well known.

[Darth Raptor]

It's important to remember that until relatively recently, specific actions were regarded as homosexual, not necessarily the perpetrators themselves. So it's somewhat nonsensical to ask what society's attitudes toward "gays" were when "gay" as an abstract label for a type of person didn't really exist back then. That said, most classical cultures saw widespread and more or less socially acceptable same-sex relations (particularly pederasty) until the Abrahamic religions rose to prominence. But that was really more institutionalized bisexuality than anything, as heterosexual activity was still expected of you. Ancient Greece and feudal Japan are perhaps the best-known examples.

One interesting exception to the above were certain aboriginal American tribes, wherein homosexuals *were* regarded as different, but not in the modern sense. These gay tribesmen were believed to possess two spirits (a male and a female) instead of one and it earned them great respect and influence, as it was believed they derived magical powers from their rare quality.

[ShadowRider77]

I just add something to what Darth Raptor said.

As far as I can remember right now, in ancient Rome (both in Republican times and in early Empire, until the monotheistic religions rose to prominence...), homosexual activities were not particularily ostracized. It varied with the centuries (and history books we used at school, unsurprisingly, were very reticent on this topic...), but as far as I could understand, homosexual acts between males (I don't know about women...) were not frowned upon; as long as they were not shown off too much, and as long as the man 'did what he had to', meaning getting married and producing offspring, homosexual activity was considered as just another pleasure, less scandalous and depraved than others, and even very prominent persons were publicly known to indulge in it (I've read that Caius Julius Caesar was dubbed "Husband of every wife, wife of every husband", and legend says that once, when he was parading in Rome after a campaign, his soldiers chanted "Wives, hide your husbands, Caesar is back!"). Actually, the only thing that was considered 'abnormal' was when a man showed a distinct preference on being passive in the sexual act, but it was mainly because it was considered a 'slave's place', and thus not proper for a man...

There was, if I remember correctly, a distinct exception in this policy, at least in Republican times: homosexuality was strictly forbidden between legionaries in service, and the punishment for soldiers caugth in 'sodomy' was lynching.

This is what I can remember right now, hope it helps...

[ShadowRider77]

Regarding the detail of homosexuality between soldiers in ancient Rome, I must add to what I said that, if I remember well, actually legionaries (I mean common soldiers and NCOs equivalent, not the high-ranking officers...) were forbidden, while in service, a lot of things that were allowed to other citizens. Just to mention one, soldiers in service could not get married or own housing or land. This was mainly done for practical reasons (i.e. an unmarried soldier with no home other than his legion could be sent anywhere on short notice and was not going to ask for a leave to go and visit family...), so the prohibition of homosexual activities could be viewed as part of a more general "no relationships" attitude rather than a specific discrimination against homosexual activities. Again, though, I am going by memory, and it's been a long time since I've studied these things, so I could be wrong...

[Johonebesus]

For the Romans, taking your pleasure from a man as you would a woman was just fine. Being the bottom wasn't frowned upon because it was for slaves, but because it was the feminine position. A respectable man could penetrate anyone he wanted, but to be penetrated was to be made a woman, and was very shameful. Actual love affairs between men were considered wrong, and too much homosexual activity was generally frowned upon as inappropriate Greek hedonism. Hadrian had a Greek lover in the Classical tradition, and it was considered a minor scandal amongst conservative Romans. The boy was either murdered or committed suicide because he was growing up and the relationship was getting weird even for a Greek.

Actual romantic relationships between same sex peers is almost unheard of in any society. You must remember for most peoples sex, love, and marriage had nothing to do with each other. The Ancients held that love was a madness to be cured, not celebrated. Marriage was a social institution necessary for procreation and inheritance. A man was not expected to marry a woman he was in love with. The idea that he was supposed to be monogamous with her would be absurd. Sex was just a pleasurable activity, and it didn't make much difference if the slaves or prostitutes the man screwed around with were make or female, as long as the husband was never penetrated. Homosexual play amongst peers was tolerated amongst the Greeks, in general, as long as the friends maintained an equal position. The proposition that a gay man shouldn't marry a woman would be incomprehensible to the Greeks, and in fact still is to most Japanese.

The closest thing to gay marriage would be the Theban Band, a military unit made up of gay couples. The theory was that they would fight exceptionally hard, both to impress and to protect their lovers. Even the Romans commented on their courage, after slaughtering them on the battle field. That does highlight an important point. The Greeks were divided into many little nations, for each city-state had its own customs and values. What was true in Athens might not be true in Corinth or Thebes or Mycenae. Then you have the fact that we're talking about hundreds of years of history, so the values of 600 B.C. might be very different than the values of 100 B.C.

In some places there have been traditions whereby a woman might take the place of a man and marry another woman. In Taiwan it was acceptable under certain circumstances, but it was a legalistic construct only for unmarriable women to preserve family property. Such marriages were arranged, and the "husband" was never expected to consummate the marriage. Children would be produced with a suitable surrogate, preferably a close male relative.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

As part of a project I am doing for school I have to find out around what period gays were accepted into mainstream society. I looked up the sexual revolution in the 60's but I discovered that even then they were still treated as 'icky' by most people. Was it an officially recognized thing or did it just sort of gradually grow within the culture?

Assuming you're talking specifically about USA, then yes, it was a 'gradual' process. It definitely came after the sexual revolution. As a Canadian (Albertan), it seems to me that acceptance started to become mainstream in the late 80s and into the 90s (though in Alberta, it can be argued that it hasn't yet become mainstream as evidenced by this province's shameful crusade against same-gender marriage laws).

Though it was gradual, you should be able to find milestones to aid your project. For example, in many cities (even in Alberta), the mayors give official sanction to a local Gay Pride day. You should be able to find out when this was first done in your area and in other major centers across the USA. Likewise, laws for and against same-gender marriages are also useful indicators that are easily researched.

But I can't see that you'll be able to make a definitive assertion in your project. All you can do is show how attitudes have changed and are still continuing to change (and how some resist that change).

[petesampras]

Actual romantic relationships between same sex peers is almost unheard of in any society. You must remember for most peoples sex, love, and marriage had nothing to do with each other. The Ancients held that love was a madness to be cured, not celebrated.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't ancient Greek myths, which heavily influenced the Romans, full of praise for romantic love? The Odyssey was essentially a story about a guy trying to get home to be with his wife.

[Kitsune]

It sounds like until the late Nineteenth century that homosexuality was really a concern.....

[pucky18]

It sounds like until the late Nineteenth century that homosexuality was really a concern.....

On the contrary, homosexuals were extremely discriminated against in Europe after the spread of Christianity (can't say about anything before that) and, as evident from the Bible, were also frowned upon in parts of the Middle East.

[Kitsune]

On the contrary, homosexuals were extremely discriminated against in Europe after the spread of Christianity (can't say about anything before that) and, as evident from the Bible, were also frowned upon in parts of the Middle East.

The main laws in England against were signed by Queen Victoria and she had removed the ones about female homosexuality not believing it possible....

From what I had read, homosexuality was mostly just ignored or pretended that it did not exist.

[Zixinus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't ancient Greek myths, which heavily influenced the Romans, full of praise for romantic love? The Odyssey was essentially a story about a guy trying to get home to be with his wife.

I don't know about praise. My mythology is a bit rusty, but it was more of a description of gods and the like fucking around.

As for Odysseus, he didn't just want his wife, but his land and kingdom and son. Also, he committed infidelity at least once during his wanderings (or has been strongly suggested that he has done so).

[Broomstick]

As part of a project I am doing for school I have to find out around what period gays were accepted into mainstream society.

They've been accepted? When? Did I miss this recently?

Yes, in some areas homosexuals are tolerated, even more rarely accepted, but I assure you there are still large segments of the population who do not tolerant, do not approve, and consider them either mentally ill, immoral, criminal, or all of the above.

I looked up the sexual revolution in the 60's but I discovered that even then they were still treated as 'icky' by most people. Was it an officially recognized thing or did it just sort of gradually grow within the culture?

I didn't see growing acceptance/tolerance until the very late 1980's or mid-1990's. Of course, I'm straight so my observations may not be accurate. Yes. I'd say it was gradual.

[Rye]

On the contrary, homosexuals were extremely discriminated against in Europe after the spread of Christianity (can't say about anything before that) and, as evident from the Bible, were also frowned upon in parts of the Middle East.

The main laws in England against were signed by Queen Victoria and she had removed the ones about female homosexuality not believing it possible....

From what I had read, homosexuality was mostly just ignored or pretended that it did not exist.

Being found guilty of buggery right back to Henry VIII was a death penalty offence (attempted buggery was 2 years). Enforcement and the dedication of rooting it out varied through time and space as such things do.

[Ariphaos]

It's important to remember that until relatively recently, specific actions were regarded as homosexual, not necessarily the perpetrators themselves. So it's somewhat nonsensical to ask what society's attitudes toward "gays" were when "gay" as an abstract label for a type of person didn't really exist back then.

If by relatively recently you mean a couple thousand years. One of Plato's writings talks about Socrates being entertained at a party by a man who espoused a rather unusual theory, that originally, there were double men, double women, and half men/half women, and that they were separated, and each seeks their partner.

They were very much aware of 'gay' in the ancient Greek era. Though that site presents it as if Plato believed that specific myth (either that or I'm remembering my readings horribly wrong).

[Alyrium Denryle]

As part of a project I am doing for school I have to find out around what period gays were accepted into mainstream society. I looked up the sexual revolution in the 60's but I discovered that even then they were still treated as 'icky' by most people. Was it an officially recognized thing or did it just sort of gradually grow within the culture?

You are joking right?

We are not accepted in society. Just a couple months ago two of my fraternity brothers got hate-crimed at a bar. They were beaten up by straight people for being gay. We have had a rash of anti-gay hate crimes lately, and politicians at all levels of government get their votes by demonizing us. We are second class citizens in most states, and the biggest percentage of homeless youth are GLBT. We are made mockery in television shows and movies (this is why I do NOT like Will and Grace)

Do you want to know what the percentage of us is who are sexually assaulted in our teens? How about the percentage of gay teenagers who fit the criteria for PTSD?

The idea that we are accepted by society is a fucking joke.

[Zablorg]

I apologize for the misunderstanding. By "accept" I sort of meant the period of time when it stopped being politically correct to label gays as monsters.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I apologize for the misunderstanding. By "accept" I sort of meant the period of time when it stopped being politically correct to label gays as monsters.

Someday, to drive Ben's point home, I should post pictures of the scars from defensive wounds on my hands. I consider myself basically unscathed from such violence, and yet even I have them. The definition of "unscathed" changes a bit for us.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I apologize for the misunderstanding. By "accept" I sort of meant the period of time when it stopped being politically correct to label gays as monsters.

It still is

[Rye]

A better phrasing of the question would be when were most sodomy laws redacted, when did sexuality become a legally recognised human rights issue, etc.

[Ryan Thunder]

I apologize for the misunderstanding. By "accept" I sort of meant the period of time when it stopped being politically correct to label gays as monsters.

It still is

Where are you, Hicksville?

Move to Canada, if you get the chance. We'll treat you like a human being.

[Aaron]

Where are you, Hicksville?

Move to Canada, if you get the chance. We'll treat you like a human being.

Not if you live outside any major city. Come tool around the Ottawa Valley, rural Quebec or places like Fort McMurry in Alberta, all chalk full of rednecks, religious nutcases and the usual folk who hate gays (white trash).

[The Duchess of Zeon]

There's that promised picture of those scars. They were incurred in shielding myself from someone swinging a shovel at me. That person happened to be my own mother.

[Zixinus]

What about other countries that had little effect from Christianity? Like Japan.