Flier upset over removal of nipple rings at security

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Flier upset over removal of nipple rings at security

Post by chitoryu12 »

Ouch
LOS ANGELES (March 27) - A Texas woman who said she was forced to remove a nipple ring with pliers in order to board an airplane called Thursday for an apology by federal security agents and a civil rights investigation.

"I wouldn't wish this experience upon anyone," Mandi Hamlin said at a news conference. "My experience with TSA was a nightmare I had to endure. No one deserves to be treated this way."

Hamlin, 37, said she was trying to board a flight from Lubbock to Dallas on Feb. 24 when she was scanned by a Transportation Security Administration agent after passing through a larger metal detector without problems.

The female TSA agent used a handheld detector that beeped when it passed in front of Hamlin's chest, the Dallas-area resident said.

Hamlin said she told the woman she was wearing nipple piercings. The women then called over her male colleagues, one of whom said she would have to remove the jewelry, Hamlin said.

Hamlin said she could not remove them and asked whether she could instead display her pierced breasts in private to the female agent. But several other male officers told her she could not board her flight until the jewelry was out, she said.

She was taken behind a curtain and managed to remove one bar-shaped piercing but had trouble with the second, a ring.

"Still crying, she informed the TSA officer that she could not remove it without the help of pliers, and the officer gave a pair to her," said Hamlin's attorney, Gloria Allred, reading from a letter she sent Thursday to the director of the TSA's Office of Civil Rights and Liberties.

Hamlin said she heard male TSA agents snickering as she took out the ring. She was scanned again and was allowed to board even though she still was wearing a belly button ring.

"After nipple rings are inserted, the skin can often heal around the piercing, and the rings can be extremely difficult and painful to remove," Allred said in the letter.

Hamlin filed a complaint, but the TSA's customer service manager at the Lubbock airport concluded the screening was handled properly, Allred said.

Allred said she might consider legal action if the TSA does not apologize.

On its Web site, the TSA warns that passengers "may be additionally screened because of hidden items such as body piercings, which alarmed the metal detector."

"If you are selected for additional screening, you may ask to remove your body piercing in private as an alternative to a pat-down search," the site says.

Hamlin would have accepted a "pat-down" had it been offered, Allred said.

Hamlin was publicly humiliated and has "undergone an enormous amount of physical pain to have the nipple rings reinserted" because of scar tissue, Allred said.

"The conduct of TSA was cruel and unnecessary," Allred wrote. "The last time that I checked a nipple was not a dangerous weapon."

TSA spokesman Dwayne Baird said he was unaware of the incident. There is no specific TSA policy on dealing with body piercings, he said, "as long as it doesn't sound the alarms."

If an alarm does sound, "until that is resolved, we're not going to let them go through the checkpoint, no matter what they're wearing or where they're wearing it."

People routinely pass through security wearing wedding rings without problems, and it might take a larger bit of metal to trigger an alarm, Baird said.
Because painfully removing piercings from a woman's nipple is oh-so funny. :roll:
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Post by Morilore »

Hamlin said she heard male TSA agents snickering as she took out the ring. She was scanned again and was allowed to board even though she still was wearing a belly button ring.
Why do so many people never grow past the age of twelve? :roll:
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Post by Darth Wong »

I wonder how much education the average TSA agent has.
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Post by Vohu Manah »

Darth Wong wrote:I wonder how much education the average TSA agent has.
From my experience most of them have various levels of college education. I wouldn't be looking at the individual officers though but the management that makes the rules.
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Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Aren't nipple-rings, belly-button rings and other piercings generally surgical-grade steel? I seem to recall being told that the type of steel that is generally inserted into the human body doesn't show up on metal detectors and isn't magnetically sensitive. I remember because when I had major surgery and spent a month with a foot-long steel staple in my chest, I had to take a flight and had no trouble with the metal detectors.

On a related note, do people who wear metal earrings ever run into the same problem?
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Post by Darth Wong »

This is 2008, not 1985. "College" vs "Not college" doesn't mean dick any more. The question is what they took. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that anyone who can't do math can't think straight. If they get something right, it's only because they chose the right person or movement to follow. At best, they know enough to be sympathetic to the weak.
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Post by Ma Deuce »

I seem to recall being told that the type of steel that is generally inserted into the human body doesn't show up on metal detectors and isn't magnetically sensitive.
It's non-magnetic when freshly produced, though it can become magnetic when worked (as a ring would be).
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Post by Thanas »

Darth Wong wrote:I wonder how much education the average TSA agent has.
Well, considering my latest experience with TSA agents....not much.

My story wasn't that painful, but here's what happened. I was flying from the US to Europe, and I had several documents with me. You know, the usual stuff you'd expect to see a historian to have - several parchments, diplomas, letters, some plans of fortresses and ships. Some bought in the USA, some I had brought with me from Europe. They were all neatly nestled between clothes for protection.

Now, I check in, and of course, my luggage gets searched (guy takes one look at foreign passport, I get searched. Nice). I promptly warn them that I have sensitive documents in there. What happens next? Some Ape of a guy (who looked like he had an IQ of 60) goes through my luggage without any consideration whatsoever, moving around bits and pieces - and of course wrinklling several parchments and papers in the process. Those who know old books and documents know that the material is very, very thin and tears easily. Sure enough, the first two documents had very large tears and were wrinkled as hell.

Not wanting to let them destroy any more documents, I try to intercede. Heck, I even offered to pull the documents out themselves so that they can ascertain that spanish/latin/french are not some secret code for terrorists and that a plan of the fortress of San Augustine was not in fact a plan of the pentagon. No avail.

End of the story: Over 12 facsimiles got ripped, wrinkled or otherwise damaged. Almost 400$ lost.

Never again will I fly into the US carrying any kind of document except if it has been scanned and resides in digital form on my HDD. Luckily they weren't originals.
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Post by Broomstick »

First - for that kind of documents shipping I'd have them go via "overnight" carrier like FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc.

Second - WTF? You leave body jewelery in until it's embedded? I always thought that shit had to be removed and cleaned daily.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Broomstick wrote:First - for that kind of documents shipping I'd have them go via "overnight" carrier like FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc.

Second - WTF? You leave body jewelery in until it's embedded? I always thought that shit had to be removed and cleaned daily.
Regular salt water rinse is the usual thing, but they can heal such that removal is basically tougher than getting them in in the first place.
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Post by Xisiqomelir »

Standard. TSA agents are on an educational and experiential par with Wal-Mart floormoppers. Practically every TSA "security procedure" is a social placebo.
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Post by Aaron »

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Aren't nipple-rings, belly-button rings and other piercings generally surgical-grade steel? I seem to recall being told that the type of steel that is generally inserted into the human body doesn't show up on metal detectors and isn't magnetically sensitive. I remember because when I had major surgery and spent a month with a foot-long steel staple in my chest, I had to take a flight and had no trouble with the metal detectors.

On a related note, do people who wear metal earrings ever run into the same problem?
Either they are or they become magnetic later, the plate in my arm sets off the hand-wand but not the uprights.
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Post by aerius »

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Aren't nipple-rings, belly-button rings and other piercings generally surgical-grade steel? I seem to recall being told that the type of steel that is generally inserted into the human body doesn't show up on metal detectors and isn't magnetically sensitive. I remember because when I had major surgery and spent a month with a foot-long steel staple in my chest, I had to take a flight and had no trouble with the metal detectors.

On a related note, do people who wear metal earrings ever run into the same problem?
Metal detectors don't rely on magnetism to detect metal, that's why titanium, aluminum, non-magnetic steels, copper, gold and all other metals will still show up in detector. Airport metal detectors find metals by inducing eddy currents in metal objects, and then picking up the magnetic fields created by the eddy currents. That's why aluminum popcans and foil wrapped cucumbers will set off the alarm.

The fun part is that metal detectors have to have a threshold, else there will be too many false alarms from zippers, buttons, dentalwork, rings, and other such objects. Someone has to calibrate all the machines and keep them dialed in, and that's where the problem is. Some places have their machines set on a hair-trigger, others are rather generous. You might get through one airport clean and then set off all the alarms at the next one.
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Post by Aaron »

aerius wrote: The fun part is that metal detectors have to have a threshold, else there will be too many false alarms from zippers, buttons, dentalwork, rings, and other such objects. Someone has to calibrate all the machines and keep them dialed in, and that's where the problem is. Some places have their machines set on a hair-trigger, others are rather generous. You might get through one airport clean and then set off all the alarms at the next one.
I take it that's why I can walk through the uprights fine but when they run the wand over my arm it goes off? In Ottawa and Vancouver anyways, I went through at Calgary and set off both.
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Post by Thanas »

Broomstick wrote:First - for that kind of documents shipping I'd have them go via "overnight" carrier like FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc.
And run the risk of having them arrive late/damaged? Maybe I should have explained more in detail in my previous post, but the situation was simply that I was staying for just one week in that particular location, plus there is the fact that I didn't have a confirmed address until three days before I arrived, and I needed the documents ASAP.

Furthermore, the fees were outrageous, and I assumed they would have been save in the suitcase, since I had previously travelled to Austria, Italy and France without a problem in the same manner.
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Post by Broomstick »

Thanas wrote:
Broomstick wrote:First - for that kind of documents shipping I'd have them go via "overnight" carrier like FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc.
And run the risk of having them arrive late/damaged?
Back when I was employed by Corporate America, post 9/11 we started routinely shipping a LOT of stuff people had previously carried with them through the airport. Domestically, both FedEx and UPS seemed to work well most of the time, and from the US to Europe or Asia we used FedEx. It was quite rare anything arrived late, and that was usually due to weather which would have affected air travel of any sort. I can recall only two instances in all that time when anything was lost, as in never recovered.

I will also say that DHL did a very good job of shipping a piano for me, as well. The delivery person even helped us pull it out of the box and get it positioned.

So yes, there is some risk - but clearly there is a risk in going through airport (in)security as well. Clearly, shipping will not work in all instances and yes, it does cost some money. Opting for less than overnight service (2-day, 3-day, etc.) will often reduce costs considerably. It is an option, not a mandate.
Maybe I should have explained more in detail in my previous post, but the situation was simply that I was staying for just one week in that particular location, plus there is the fact that I didn't have a confirmed address until three days before I arrived, and I needed the documents ASAP.
Yes, that would definitely work against shipping.
Furthermore, the fees were outrageous, and I assumed they would have been save in the suitcase, since I had previously travelled to Austria, Italy and France without a problem in the same manner.
Unfortunately, you found to the contrary. I'm sorry you had to find out by having actual damage occur.
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Re: Flier upset over removal of nipple rings at security

Post by FSTargetDrone »

A few things from the OP I am unclear on:
On its Web site, the TSA warns that passengers "may be additionally screened because of hidden items such as body piercings, which alarmed the metal detector."

"If you are selected for additional screening, you may ask to remove your body piercing in private as an alternative to a pat-down search," the site says.

...

TSA spokesman Dwayne Baird said he was unaware of the incident. There is no specific TSA policy on dealing with body piercings, he said, "as long as it doesn't sound the alarms."

If an alarm does sound, "until that is resolved, we're not going to let them go through the checkpoint, no matter what they're wearing or where they're wearing it."
So what is the justification for asking anyone to remove any body jewelry, especially when it's obvious that it cannot easily be removed in the first place? Is it simply an issue of metal=bad? Is it not enough for a visual inspection to see that the nipple rings are probably not lethal weapons? I don't know, Maybe these genius security types were concerned the piercings were attached to explosives hidden in her breasts?

Seriously though, if it isn't an issue of the piercing somehow being dangerous, well, why else does it need more than a cursory inspection?

I mean, if it's a question of the piercing somehow being a danger to passengers or the flight crew, well, they better not allow people to carry magazines on board. Someone might pull an Ash and attempt to kill a seat mate with a tightly rolled-up periodical.
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Re: Flier upset over removal of nipple rings at security

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

FSTargetDrone wrote:A few things from the OP I am unclear on:
On its Web site, the TSA warns that passengers "may be additionally screened because of hidden items such as body piercings, which alarmed the metal detector."

"If you are selected for additional screening, you may ask to remove your body piercing in private as an alternative to a pat-down search," the site says.

...

TSA spokesman Dwayne Baird said he was unaware of the incident. There is no specific TSA policy on dealing with body piercings, he said, "as long as it doesn't sound the alarms."

If an alarm does sound, "until that is resolved, we're not going to let them go through the checkpoint, no matter what they're wearing or where they're wearing it."
So what is the justification for asking anyone to remove any body jewelry, especially when it's obvious that it cannot easily be removed in the first place? Is it simply an issue of metal=bad? Is it not enough for a visual inspection to see that the nipple rings are probably not lethal weapons? I don't know, Maybe these genius security types were concerned the piercings were attached to explosives hidden in her breasts?

Seriously though, if it isn't an issue of the piercing somehow being dangerous, well, why else does it need more than a cursory inspection?

I mean, if it's a question of the piercing somehow being a danger to passengers or the flight crew, well, they better not allow people to carry magazines on board. Someone might pull an Ash and attempt to kill a seat mate with a tightly rolled-up periodical.
Take this with a grain of salt, but I get the feeling that this is a classic case of a bureaucratic entity executing process for the sake of the process, instead of whatever the process was designed to attempt to prevent or remedy. When the policy was written, they probably had this image that if a given piercing was big enough to set off the detectors, it might be useful as a weapon . . . but they would leave it to the agents on the ground to make the final determination.

Except there's always a tendency to take a perfectly useful policy or process and make following the letter of it more important than the spirit. (After all, if we let those non-management snots have too much freedom, they might make a call that'll get his or her management in deep shit. Not to mention, there are those dreadfully pedantic people with zero capacity for independent critical thinking who will do precisely what the rules and regs say to do and treat it as gospel.) Instead of leaving things in the hands of local agents, those higher up will instead say "Thou Shalt Do This, Because it is Policy." followed by a "If Thou Do Not, Then Thou Shalt Verily Be Fired!"

So it eventually stops being a matter of protecting people from people with weapons getting onto airplanes, and more a matter of not doing anything to violate the letter of the regs. So by God, if the regs say remove it if it sets off the detectors, we'll make them remove it, no matter how obviously inoffensive it is because we'll get into deep shit if we don't.

As an example of how pervasive this sort of thinking is: Where I work, they originally had a policy for corporate-owned laptops to have antivirus and encryption installed. Originally, the aim was to protect company data, and the employees from harm from malware, and the penalties for slipping up were appropriate to this aim. And then it mutated into this jackbooted mandate of "You will do this because we told you to, or we will fire you." In some cases it's become a positive pain in the ass, because on some machines you either can't install the latest antivirus and encryption either because the machine is supposed to be used for testing and you want the software environment to be as clean as possible, or it's equipment on-loan from customers or contractors, or the equipment is simply too outdated, but has to be kept out of contractual obligations.
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Re: Flier upset over removal of nipple rings at security

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FSTargetDrone wrote:So what is the justification for asking anyone to remove any body jewelry, especially when it's obvious that it cannot easily be removed in the first place? Is it simply an issue of metal=bad? Is it not enough for a visual inspection to see that the nipple rings are probably not lethal weapons? I don't know, Maybe these genius security types were concerned the piercings were attached to explosives hidden in her breasts?
OH, but don't you know? They could have been the pins for grenades hidden in her BREASTS!

They just HAD to be SURE!

:roll:
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Post by J »

Darth Wong wrote:I wonder how much education the average TSA agent has.
I had a TSA agent confiscate a rock, that's right, a rock, attached to which was an engraved label which read "California State Mining and Mineral Museum". They probably thought the chunk of iron pyrite was real gold or something...
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Post by aerius »

Cpl Kendall wrote:I take it that's why I can walk through the uprights fine but when they run the wand over my arm it goes off? In Ottawa and Vancouver anyways, I went through at Calgary and set off both.
The wands are more sensitive since they're used at a much closer distance to your body compared to the walk-through machine. Basically, the walk-through detector tells the operator that there's metal on the person, the wand tells the guy where the metal is.
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Post by Zed Snardbody »

I'm an LTSO - Lead Transportation Security Officer.

The procedure for body piercings and what not basically goes like this. In the beginning, officers used to pat down the breast area in the course of our searches. Because of allegations of improper conduct the procedure was changed.

As a result of that change, certain alarms are unresolvable such as penile piercings, and nipple rings because we can not touch these areas to confirm the absence of a threat item, be it a blade, detonator, ammunition, or something else that may be concealed.

The procedure as written, probably by someone who never had a piercing is that the person is escorted to the private screening room or area. We clear the area first then leave them in there to take it out. We confirm that nothing prohibited is left in the room. Then the person is re-screened and hopefully there is no longer an alarm in the suspect area.

They are also given the option of leaving the check point and doing whatever and coming back through.

What happened here sounds like a half assed application of the policy with moron officers that I wouldn't let near my checkpoint.
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