Goth killers convicted

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Rye
To Mega Therion
Posts: 12493
Joined: 2003-03-08 07:48am
Location: Uighur, please!

Goth killers convicted

Post by Rye »

Just saw this on NWT, I posted a thread on this before, so this is an update, technically.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lanc ... 316601.stm
A 15-year-old boy has been found guilty of murder after he kicked a woman to death because she was a Goth.

Brendan Harris set upon Sophie Lancaster, 20, in a Lancashire park after he and four other youths assaulted her boyfriend Robert Maltby.

Ryan Herbert, 16, had already admitted murdering Miss Lancaster in Stubbylee Park, Bacup, last August.

Det Supt Mick Gradwell, of Lancashire Police, said it was one of the most violent murders he had seen.

He said that Herbert and Harris, who were named when the judge at Preston Crown Court lifted an order banning their identification, did not recognise how violent the attack was.

Mr Gradwell also criticised some of the parents of the boys involved, saying their attitude had been "appalling".

Miss Lancaster, a gap year student, died from serious head injuries two weeks after the incident while 21-year-old Mr Maltby survived.

Prosecutor Michael Shorrock had told the court the gang, who had been drinking, had turned on the young couple simply because they were Goths and were dressed differently.

Harris admitted punching Mr Maltby once in the face, but claimed he played no further part in the attack.

Both Harris and Herbert pleaded guilty to causing grievous bodily harm to Mr Maltby, along with three other males, two aged 17 and one 16, who still cannot be named.

Judge Anthony Russell QC praised the families of both Miss Lancaster and Mr Maltby for their dignity "during what must have been a very, very harrowing ordeal".

He also thanked witnesses who had helped the victims and had given evidence in court. He ordered them to be awarded £250 each.

The judge said that he was duty bound to give Harris and Herbert life sentences but that he would set the tariffs on 28 April.

In a statement released after the verdict, Sylvia Lancaster said her daughter's death was a tragedy to both the family and wider society.

She said: "First, obviously, I have lost an adoring and adorable daughter. She was intelligent, brave, courageous and had a social conscience beyond her years.

"Her death has also ruined the lives of those responsible as well as the lives of their families.

"On a wider scale, it is a tragedy for a society which, in the past, has prided itself on its tolerance.

I am convinced Sophie was killed simply because of the way she looked. She did not necessarily conform to the ideals of those who took her life."

Det Supt Gradwell said it was one of the most violent murders he had come across in his lengthy career.

He said: "It was a totally unnecessary and appalling set of circumstances.

"I do not think Herbert and Harris have recognised how violent the attack was.

"They have just done it without thinking but they have seemed to have enjoyed it and carried on remorselessly kicking at two very defenceless people who were unable to protect themselves because of the level of violence inflicted upon them.

"There was a total lack of parental control.

"I am very critical of some of the parents involved. I really don't think they have taken completely seriously how repulsive this incident was."

He said that when Harris was initially interviewed about the assaults he was "laughing and joking" with his mother.

Goths emerged as a youth subculture in the early 1980s.

Although initially used to describe a form of music, it has evolved to encompass literature, art and fashion, with its exponents typically dressing in dark clothing.
Also, no prizes for guessing the social group of the killers:

Image

The local news had a bigger section on the family and a fairly long interview with the boyfriend. The boyfriend said, "I hope they never stop suffering for what they've done." I'm glad he didn't forgive them publically. Regarding the "appalling" behaviour of the chav parents, the local news went into more detail. Apparently, one of the lads' parents just laughed when they heard about it and that their child had been arrested for it.
EBC|Fucking Metal|Artist|Androgynous Sexfiend|Gozer Kvltist|
Listen to my music! http://www.soundclick.com/nihilanth
"America is, now, the most powerful and economically prosperous nation in the country." - Master of Ossus
User avatar
Gullible Jones
Jedi Knight
Posts: 674
Joined: 2007-10-17 12:18am

Post by Gullible Jones »

Every time I find myself disgusted by the behavior of "gangstas", I remember Britain and its chavs.

And then I spend an hour trying not to throw up.
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

and people kept saying goths were the violent ones 12 years ago....
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
Frank Hipper
Overfiend of the Superego
Posts: 12882
Joined: 2002-10-17 08:48am
Location: Hamilton, Ohio?

Post by Frank Hipper »

:x

That.

Fucking.

Haircut.

It's the 21st century mullet, I cannot disassociate it from the phrase "The Jerry Springer Show".

Scum of the earth... :evil:
Image
Life is all the eternity you get, use it wisely.
User avatar
DPDarkPrimus
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 18399
Joined: 2002-11-22 11:02pm
Location: Iowa
Contact:

Post by DPDarkPrimus »

And the victim's parent comes right out and says what we always think - that shitty parents produce shitty kids.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest
"Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
User avatar
Darth Servo
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8805
Joined: 2002-10-10 06:12pm
Location: Satellite of Love

Post by Darth Servo »

What a bunch of worthless scum. Throw away the key. Can the parents of such trash be charged with being accessories to the crime or something?
"everytime a person is born the Earth weighs just a little more."--DMJ on StarTrek.com
"You see now you are using your thinking and that is not a good thing!" DMJay on StarTrek.com

"Watching Sarli argue with Vympel, Stas, Schatten and the others is as bizarre as the idea of the 40-year-old Virgin telling Hugh Hefner that Hef knows nothing about pussy, and that he is the expert."--Elfdart
User avatar
El Moose Monstero
Moose Rebellion Ambassador
Posts: 3743
Joined: 2003-04-30 12:33pm
Location: The Cradle of the Rebellion... Oop Nowrrth, Like...
Contact:

Post by El Moose Monstero »

An article on this really got to me, I think it was a linked piece with the testimony of the boyfriend; I was quite choked up by the end of it. I still can't believe that people get murdered over what they wear on the street.

If there'd even been any sign of remorse, it would be an improvement, but the article said that the kid had tried to claim that he'd only started it, and that others had taken it too far, when witnesses had him in the middle of it all. Shit heads.
Image
"...a fountain of mirth, issuing forth from the penis of a cupid..." ~ Dalton / Winner of the 'Frank Hipper Most Horrific Drag EVAR' award - 2004 / The artist formerly known as The_Lumberjack.

Evil Brit Conspiracy: Token Moose Obsessed Kebab Munching Semi Geordie
User avatar
Big Orange
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7108
Joined: 2006-04-22 05:15pm
Location: Britain

Post by Big Orange »

Video of the mother and boyfriend. :(

Brave fucking sods viciously abusing strangers at random because they either look fat, gay, goth, small, posh, old, tall, "lame", mentally ill, or "Paki". :roll:

The neighborhood I'm in has gone to the dogs, with two pubs closed down for months due to them being used by drug dealers, plus the pikey scum typically get cars as soon as possible, so they could get to the nicer Chav-free areas outside the boundries of their esates (Hanham being relatively close on foot to Kingswood doesn't help).
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

It's people like these that make me think deterrance is by far the most important consideration for prisons.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

NecronLord wrote:It's people like these that make me think deterrance is by far the most important consideration for prisons.
I would think that crimes like this would be proof that deterrence is limited in how well it works, because it presumes that the animals in question are thinking about what they are doing before they do it.

Around here, half the time something like this happens (which normally doesn't result in murder), it's a bunch of drunk frat guys who decided one night to roll a "faggot" on the street, or some other slur. The problem with deterring them with harsh jail time is they either aren't thinking about it at all or thinking that they aren't doing anything wrong and will get away with it. I think there was a beating incident that happened a couple years back where they guys in question tried to defend themselves by pointing out that they thought the victim was gay... and lo, when their parents became involved, they defended the guys by saying that their sons shouldn't go to jail and have their lives ruined for merely sending a gay guy to the hospital while drunk.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Post by Thanas »

Is there some kind of ethic class British schools? One that teaches sociopaths that it really would be in their better interest to stop acting like that scum.

If not, why not? If there is one, I have to wonder why the British school system fails so miserably (Yeah, I know, their parents are scum as well, but the same is true for the USA and the rest of Europe as well) on a wide scale as to actually produce some sort of "chav" (whatever that word means anyway) epidemia.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Gil Hamilton wrote:I would think that crimes like this would be proof that deterrence is limited in how well it works, because it presumes that the animals in question are thinking about what they are doing before they do it.
Assuming those pictures were taken by the police, the goons look remarkably composed and contemptuous for people being charged with murder...
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
FSTargetDrone
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7878
Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Goth killers convicted

Post by FSTargetDrone »

"I do not think Herbert and Harris have recognised how violent the attack was.

"They have just done it without thinking but they have seemed to have enjoyed it and carried on remorselessly kicking at two very defenceless people who were unable to protect themselves because of the level of violence inflicted upon them.
The bolded part seems to say it all. They may look composed, but it seems to me that it 's just more of them simply not thinking. Not thinking about what they've done, not thinking about what's to come. Simply not thinking, at all. You've got a pair of empty skulls there.
Image
User avatar
Darth Ruinus
Jedi Master
Posts: 1400
Joined: 2007-04-02 12:02pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by Darth Ruinus »

I think those guys probably like looking at their mug shots, just to see how "tough" they look.

But seriously, this is pretty disgusting. What are these "chavs" anyways?
"I don't believe in man made global warming because God promised to never again destroy the earth with water. He sent the rainbow as a sign."
- Sean Hannity Forums user Avi

"And BTW the concept of carbon based life is only a hypothesis based on the abiogensis theory, and there is no clear evidence for it."
-Mazen707 informing me about the facts on carbon-based life.
User avatar
Darth Raptor
Red Mage
Posts: 5448
Joined: 2003-12-18 03:39am

Post by Darth Raptor »

Darth Ruinus wrote:But seriously, this is pretty disgusting. What are these "chavs" anyways?
It's what the British call their white trash.
User avatar
Darksider
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5271
Joined: 2002-12-13 02:56pm
Location: America's decaying industrial armpit.

Post by Darksider »

Does anyone remember that "chav hunt" video that some high-class british school kids made a while back? i'm thinking that might be a suitable punishment for these two assclowns.

shit like this really puts my hatred of american "wiggers" in perspective. They may be annoying as hell, but at least they don't beat people to death because they're different.
And this is why you don't watch anything produced by Ronald D. Moore after he had his brain surgically removed and replaced with a bag of elephant semen.-Gramzamber, on why Caprica sucks
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Re: Goth killers convicted

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

FSTargetDrone wrote:
"I do not think Herbert and Harris have recognised how violent the attack was.

"They have just done it without thinking but they have seemed to have enjoyed it and carried on remorselessly kicking at two very defenceless people who were unable to protect themselves because of the level of violence inflicted upon them.
The bolded part seems to say it all. They may look composed, but it seems to me that it 's just more of them simply not thinking. Not thinking about what they've done, not thinking about what's to come. Simply not thinking, at all. You've got a pair of empty skulls there.
It's also the pack factor, Rape and assualts by groups are always more vicious and with less restriant then they would possess otherwise.
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Darksider wrote:Does anyone remember that "chav hunt" video that some high-class british school kids made a while back? i'm thinking that might be a suitable punishment for these two assclowns.

shit like this really puts my hatred of american "wiggers" in perspective. They may be annoying as hell, but at least they don't beat people to death because they're different.
Chavs pretty much are British wiggers, and I don't know if there are stupid but placid ones to compliment the violent ones, but I've definitely been confronted by violent wiggers who have a problem with metalheads, and I live in Canada. I can only imagine what kind of tryhard violent white assholes subscribing to gangsta culture there are in America.

Either way, is anyone surprised? These kids have been partaking in something unprecedented in popular culture. While there has always been darker aspects of youth counterculture since the 60's made love and peace look futile, I can't think of anything analogous to gangsta culture ever taking place in popular culture before. It encourages sociopathic behavior and indiscriminate violence as a badge of manhood in ways unseen since we were hucking spears at one another.
Image
User avatar
Darth Raptor
Red Mage
Posts: 5448
Joined: 2003-12-18 03:39am

Post by Darth Raptor »

American wiggers are more often the spawn of dumbshit, suburban, upper middle class families who have more money than sense. They're similar when it comes to fashion and the whole sports obsession, but they're not the dregs of the dregs like British chavs are. They were the apex predators at my high school, for instance. More likely to kill you drunk driving than murdering you like an animal.
User avatar
Superman
Pink Foamin' at the Mouth
Posts: 9690
Joined: 2002-12-16 12:29am
Location: Metropolis

Post by Superman »

Has Brittain ever passed any type of anti gang legislation that would affect those idiots? In the US for example, some cities have taken steps to combat gang activity; like make it illegal for known gang members to congregate in public.
Image
User avatar
Setesh
Jedi Master
Posts: 1113
Joined: 2002-07-16 03:27pm
Location: Maine, land of the Laidback
Contact:

Post by Setesh »

Reading this brought this shit from south of the border to mind.
Anti-Emo Riots Break Out Across Mexico
By Alexis Madrigal
Riot police have taken to the streets of several cities in Mexico to ... defend emo kids?

A series of attacks on dyed-hair, eye-makeup-wearing emo kids began in early March when several hundred people went on an emo-beating rampage in Querétaro, a town of 1.5 million about 160 miles north of Mexico City.

The next week, shaggy-haired emo teenagers were harassed again by punks and rockabillys in the capital, prompting police protection and a segment on the TV news. Most recently, a Mexican newspaper reported that metal heads and gangsters have warned Tijuana's emo kids to stay away from the town's fair next month.

But the so-called emos are organizing, too. Last week, they demonstrated against the violence, pictured above, and Wednesday some met with police in Mexico City.

"They're organizing to defend their right to be emo," wrote Daniel Hernandez of LA Weekly on his personal blog, which has provided stellar coverage of the whole affair.

Music-based subcultures have permeated Mexico's major cities for decades, fueled by constant migration from rural cities. But only in the past year have emos begun to make their presence felt in the streets. In response, many of the established so-called tribus urbanas like punks and metalheads are responding with violence. The emo-punk battles are reminiscent of earlier subculture fights among various factions, like the Hell's Angels fighting hippies at the Altamont Music Festival or the Mods taking on the Rockers.

But while videos of Mexican teenagers with pompadours advancing on equally baby-faced emo rockers seem like scenes from a south-of-the-border version of John Waters' Crybaby, there are ugly undercurrents to the story.

First, by some accounts, the emo subculture is identified with homosexuality in Mexico. As Mexico City youth worker Victor Mendoza told Time.com: "At the core of this is the homophobic issue. The other arguments are just window dressing for that."

Gustavo Arellano, the author of Ask a Mexican and an editor at OC Weekly, said that the sexual ambiguities cultivated by emo fashion helped set the group up for targeting by more macho groups.

"What do you do when you are confronted with a question mark about sexuality in Mexico?" Arellano said. "You beat it up."

Forum posts show similar sentiments. One person wrote on a government youth-website forum, "detesto a los emosexuales," which translates as "I hate emosexuals." Emosexual is an obvious play on homosexual, especially in Spanish, where the H is silent.

Many of the attacks have been planned, or at least fomented, on violently anti-emo websites like Movimiento Anti Emosexual, which features videos of physical violence sprinkled liberally with anti-gay sentiment. Last.fm's Anti Emo Death Squad group has almost 4,000 members.

But Arellano said he thought the riots could have a positive impact here in the US.

"It's a great clusterfuck for the American mind's idea of Mexico," Arellano said. "This teaches the rest of the world that Mexico is not just a bunch of cactuses and sombreros."
"Nobody ever inferred from the multiple infirmities of Windows that Bill Gates was infinitely benevolent, omniscient, and able to fix everything. " Argument against god's perfection.

My Snow's art portfolio.
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Post by ray245 »

I don't get it why people hate emo-people so much.

I mean it's their own right to be sad or happy....

Sigh.
User avatar
Aaron
Blackpowder Man
Posts: 12031
Joined: 2004-01-28 11:02pm
Location: British Columbian ExPat

Post by Aaron »

ray245 wrote:I don't get it why people hate emo-people so much.

I mean it's their own right to be sad or happy....

Sigh.
Because their different, not the majority. Not part of the tribe. Take your pick, it's the same thing.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Image
Crazy_Vasey
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1571
Joined: 2002-07-13 12:56pm

Post by Crazy_Vasey »

Superman wrote:Has Brittain ever passed any type of anti gang legislation that would affect those idiots? In the US for example, some cities have taken steps to combat gang activity; like make it illegal for known gang members to congregate in public.
We have Anti-Social Behaviour Orders which can be used to prohibit people from doing, basically, whatever the court feels like prohibiting them from doing. They're semi-controversial in that quite a few people feel that prohibiting people from doing things that are normally perfectly legal is just not cricket. They're also of somewhat dubious effectiveness and seem to be a way for the government to punish people without doing anything that would require any real resources, but that may just be my cynicism speaking.
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Post by Vendetta »

Superman wrote:Has Brittain ever passed any type of anti gang legislation that would affect those idiots? In the US for example, some cities have taken steps to combat gang activity; like make it illegal for known gang members to congregate in public.
Trouble is they're generally not in gangs, other than the loose collection of mates that hang out together. They're just scumbags with little comprehension of or care for the consequences of their actions, and utter disregard for other people.
Post Reply