Medical benefits of the foreskin?

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Kitsune
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Post by Kitsune »

ArmorPierce wrote:Maybe for christians and Europeans. For my people it started so sand wouldn't get under the foreskin and be an irritant and then evolved into a religious thing.
Actually, during the Spanish Inquisition, that is one way they identified the
"Judizers" among the conversos. The "Judizers" were circumcised. It is relatively new in the Western World.

Your argument seems to be "Well, it was done to me and I feel fine"
That does not make it any more right than butchering a girls sex organs...
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Post by ArmorPierce »

It got torn apart as being biased hack that should lose her licensefrom many here however no one was able to substanuate that claim. Considering that the Doctor that conduced the experiment is ANTI-CIRCUMCISION she is a lot less biased than an experiment conducted from by someone funded by a anti-circumcision group. Her basis for being anti-circumcision is that it is barbaric and without consent, which is all the reason that needs be.
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Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Post by ArmorPierce »

Kitsune wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:Maybe for christians and Europeans. For my people it started so sand wouldn't get under the foreskin and be an irritant and then evolved into a religious thing.
Actually, during the Spanish Inquisition, that is one way they identified the
"Judizers" among the conversos. The "Judizers" were circumcised. It is relatively new in the Western World.

Your argument seems to be "Well, it was done to me and I feel fine"
That does not make it any more right than butchering a girls sex organs...
I am ANTI-CIRCUMCISION. What I am against is people making unsubstantiated claims, claiming that I am deficient or less at sex or any of the wide range of claims being made. The reason that I am anti-circumcision has little to do with all these reasons that people pull out of the top of their head, it has to do with it being an unneeded, not necessary surgery without consent of the person that you are doing it to.
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Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Post by Kitsune »

The person who stated that they can sense an impending orgasm better was a many who had his foreskin restore. He is also the same one who his wife stated that he had to thrust less hard. Granted, it is a testimonial but it is what we have.
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Re: Medical benefits of the foreskin?

Post by Junghalli »

wautd wrote:Offcourse, turns out he is circumsised during childhood. I think most of these people shield themselves so that they can't see why it's unethical. Because if they would, they have to realize they've been screwed over.
I find that quite probable, I have noticed most circumcision apologists I've run into are circumcised themselves.

Or sometimes I get the impression it's a weird manhood thing. They get disturbed by what they percieve as other people telling them "my cock is better than yours".
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Post by ArmorPierce »

As you stated, anecdotal. I have never in my life had any trouble to sense and orgasm coming and stoping if I don't want it to come. I have no idea that anyone could normally have that problem unless they were suffering some kind of condition.
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Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Post by Junghalli »

FSTargetDrone wrote:I don't necessarily buy all of this "so Johnny looks like the other boys in school" argument either.
The issue certainly never came up for me. Besides, I've never been a fan of that argument anyway. "Let's mutilate people because ignorant fools think it's normal and we don't want them to be different!"
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Re: Medical benefits of the foreskin?

Post by Kitsune »

Junghalli wrote:I find that quite probable, I have noticed most circumcision apologists I've run into are circumcised themselves.
Or "Medical Professionals" who make money of it
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Post by Kitsune »

ArmorPierce wrote:As you stated, anecdotal. I have never in my life had any trouble to sense and orgasm coming and stoping if I don't want it to come. I have no idea that anyone could normally have that problem unless they were suffering some kind of condition.
You are stating the same thing.....you claim that you have no trouble sensing an orgasm but that is anecdotal. Even worse, you have no comparison to work from. Even if with his restored foreskin, he does not have full sensitivity, he has increased sensitivity and appears to be able to sense better. Youdon't even have a comparison.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
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Post by ArmorPierce »

Kitsune wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:As you stated, anecdotal. I have never in my life had any trouble to sense and orgasm coming and stoping if I don't want it to come. I have no idea that anyone could normally have that problem unless they were suffering some kind of condition.
You are stating the same thing.....you claim that you have no trouble sensing an orgasm but that is anecdotal. Even worse, you have no comparison to work from. Even if with his restored foreskin, he does not have full sensitivity, he has increased sensitivity and appears to be able to sense better. Youdon't even have a comparison.
And this is why anecdotal evidence doesn't work out. You say one thing and I say another. You state he don't have full sensitivity but you really don't know that, is there a study that has compared restored foreskin to non restored? Fact is that I am able to tell when I am about to reach climax and never had any difficulty doing so. You asserted that I wouldn't be able to do this:
First, the man being more sensitive with a foreskin is suppose to be able to tell when he is about to reach a climax.
Perhaps it was just your friend that had this problem?
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Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Post by Cairber »

Hey, I just got back from a weekend of protesting circumcision in washington, dc on the Capitol lawn :)


Anyway...info for you:

The functions of the foreskin:

functions
functions

A video on the functions of the foreskin (prepuce):
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision. ... epuce.html
(medical, penises shown)

I also have tons of info on the frenulum, ridged band and Meissner's corpuscles if you would like them, just send me a PM because I don't feel like dressing 30 links :lol
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Post by Cairber »

Also, a big argument to make is about meatal stenosis. The foreskin protects the glans in infancy in a big way. about 7-10% of the time, circumcised boys suffer meatal stenosis because of lack of protection. This often requires surgical correction:

what is meatal stenosis?
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Post by Cairber »

ArmorPierce wrote:It got torn apart as being biased hack that should lose her licensefrom many here however no one was able to substanuate that claim. Considering that the Doctor that conduced the experiment is ANTI-CIRCUMCISION she is a lot less biased than an experiment conducted from by someone funded by a anti-circumcision group. Her basis for being anti-circumcision is that it is barbaric and without consent, which is all the reason that needs be.
The study you speak of is pathetic because it does not even consider the foreskin. She claims the sensitivity is the same, yet she only measures areas common to both circumcised and intact men. Had she measured more areas, including foreskin, frenulum, ridged band, etc...I dare say she would see different results.

Of course, she couldn't do this and still claim to be studying both groups equally, as the group that has suffered genital cutting lacks these areas.
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Post by ArmorPierce »

Well I am talking about the supposed keternization and desensitization caused by it on the head that the study refutes. I'm not talking about anything else. You'd obviously have more sensitivity somewhere compared to someone that had the part removed.
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Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Post by Cairber »

I am not sure we have enough information to accept her study as one that refutes the keternization idea.

Circumcisions are varied as far as how much foreskin is taken off. We have no information on what kind of glan coverage the men she tested had. I also believe, at least going by memory here, there was no information provided on specific ages of the participants.

I also question whether or not her methods could actually show sensation on the head as opposed to the recent Semmes-Weinstein monofilament touch-test study, which showed significant differences in the glans of the intact and circumcised men.
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Post by Dark Flame »

FSTargetDrone wrote: I don't necessarily buy all of this "so Johnny looks like the other boys in school" argument either.
Sorry to jump in late, but I can't stand this argument at all. But in a completely different way than you. :P

I've said this before, but I used to shower with other guys daily for several months out of the year. We saw each other, whether we wanted to or not. We're not shy about it anymore, we all know every detail of each other's bodies. And nobody is shy about sharing that info. My entire school knows that I am one of the approximately 3 uncircumcised people in the school. And you know what? I deal with it. I'm different, oh well. Everybody is different, I'm just different in a (IMO) better way.

And honestly, most of the people who continuously point out my little "difference" are obviously less than confident about themselves and have the arguing technique of going "LALALALALA I can't hear you so I win!"
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Post by Kitsune »

One ite I note with the pages agrees with a statement I made previously:
Circumcision was virtually unknown in the United States during the early years of the Republic Doctors began to promote it, beginning in the 1850's, as a cure for masturbation.
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Post by Kitsune »

ArmorPierce wrote:And this is why anecdotal evidence doesn't work out. You say one thing and I say another. You state he don't have full sensitivity but you really don't know that, is there a study that has compared restored foreskin to non restored? Fact is that I am able to tell when I am about to reach climax and never had any difficulty doing so. You asserted that I wouldn't be able to do this:
If you read the material kindly provided by Cairber, you will note that the effects are variable. Some people are effected more than others. Some people may have more loss than others. Some also have more of the prepuce taken than others. It would be interesting to get information from someone who got circumcised in later life to see what they state about sensitivity if you can get an honest answer from them

One question I have and not for you but perhaps any parent who might have had it done to the child unknowingly is how long did it take before it completely healed? Basically how long was it for it to no longer be either and open wound or scabbed over andd be flesh?
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"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
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Post by Cairber »

One question I have and not for you but perhaps any parent who might have had it done to the child unknowingly is how long did it take before it completely healed? Basically how long was it for it to no longer be either and open wound or scabbed over andd be flesh?
If the circumcision itself is not tragic enough, the healing period, at least in the USA, is just down right disgusting. The initial healing takes about a week or two, depending on the device used (note the plastibell method takes a few-5 days for the cone to even fall off the penis). During this time we see dramatically decreased rates of breastfeeding; the AAP has come out and said that trauma and pain can affect the breastfeeding relationship; we definitely see this in circumcised boys.

And just when you think the wound is healed, the subject of adhesions comes up. 70% of circumcised boys in the USA suffer adhesions as the remaining skin attempts to heal itself by reattaching to the glans.

In the USA, doctors tell parents to rip these adhesions back and to, each day 1-3 times a day, push the remaining skin back behind the head of the penis (and sometimes the direction to add a barrier cream is also given- such as vaseline). These directions last anywhere from 6 months to 2 years (yes, mothers and fathers manipulating their son's penis for years after his circumcision to prevent adhesions)

1% of these boys will be given a second circumcision because the parents feel "not enough skin was taken off"

Others will suffer from scar tissue from repeated trauma while others will have skin bridges that either need to be released surgically or taken care of later in life (or left alone and serve as just another sign of how circumcision can deform the penis)
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Post by Eulogy »

This is why we need stem cell research done. The thought of having permanently deformed genitals due to ignorance and/or maliciousness is downright horrifying.

Not to mention it's a very good way to get the boy to loathe his parents for the rest of his life.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

It would be interesting to get information from someone who got circumcised in later life to see what they state about sensitivity if you can get an honest answer from them
I'm here.

It totally reduces sensitivity of the upper glans, due to keratinization and full-time pressure and rubbing against cloth. It doesn't reduce the sensitivity of the corona, not as far as I could see.

I had extreme hypersensitivity though which is a medical condition, extreme to the point of being unable to have sex, even under anesthesia. So perhaps I'm not the best person to ask this.

Massively decreased glans sensitivity was salvation for me, but it might be damning for an otherwise healthy person.

Also, decreased sensitivity (at least for me) allows for better control of orgasm, be it masturbation or sex.
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Post by ArmorPierce »

Kitsune wrote:
ArmorPierce wrote:And this is why anecdotal evidence doesn't work out. You say one thing and I say another. You state he don't have full sensitivity but you really don't know that, is there a study that has compared restored foreskin to non restored? Fact is that I am able to tell when I am about to reach climax and never had any difficulty doing so. You asserted that I wouldn't be able to do this:
If you read the material kindly provided by Cairber, you will note that the effects are variable. Some people are effected more than others. Some people may have more loss than others. Some also have more of the prepuce taken than others. It would be interesting to get information from someone who got circumcised in later life to see what they state about sensitivity if you can get an honest answer from them

One question I have and not for you but perhaps any parent who might have had it done to the child unknowingly is how long did it take before it completely healed? Basically how long was it for it to no longer be either and open wound or scabbed over andd be flesh?
That is something that I can agree to. Some people complain that they are unable to masturbate without lube whilst I definitely never had this problem which tells me that their circumcision took off some more skin than was taken out for me.

I wouldn't know how to answer your question since I was a baby. Either way circumcision is a pretty horrific, painful, unnecessary procedure that could leave you with a wide assortment of medical conditions. Definitely no reason to do it bar some medical reason. "Being like everyone else" is a stupid reason and the "women like it better cut" is another stupid reason which probably has more to do with familiarity rather than actually liking one more than the other.
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Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Post by Cairber »

kinda off topic but not really--

I was in washington this weekend demonstrating on the capitol lawn about circumcision and I was really pleased with the responses we got. Sure, we got a few morons and hecklers ("circumcision doesn't kill people, you should be protesting Iraq!" "Are you only protesting this because it's a Jewish thing?" "what about abortion?! I hope you are prolife!") but, overall, people were really receptive.

And I was pleasantly surprised at the many people who told us about leaving their sons intact or men telling us they were intact. Also the school groups were very receptive to our message, especially if someone among them came out and said they were intact...that really got the others listening.

There were a lot of highlights, but I think my favorite was a woman, who was not American though I am not sure where she was from, who asked me to explain what circumcision was. She was horrified and couldn't believe Americans did this to their children. I feel like that would be the reaction of anyone who was not tainted by the past/propaganda on the subject.
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Post by Justforfun000 »

It totally reduces sensitivity of the upper glans, due to keratinization and full-time pressure and rubbing against cloth. It doesn't reduce the sensitivity of the corona, not as far as I could see.

I had extreme hypersensitivity though which is a medical condition, extreme to the point of being unable to have sex, even under anesthesia. So perhaps I'm not the best person to ask this.
I find it odd that so many people focus on the issue of the head anyway. I think it's arguably better in THAT one sense because I find the head is a bit too sensitive naturally. It isn't the best area to be working on anyway. It's the skin directly under it which of course would also include the foreskin if it was there.

Now I was cut as a baby too and even IF lets say there was little difference in a 'better' sensation in having the foreskin with it's bits like the frenulum, ridged bands, and the meisner's corpuscles which are cells that give you the tickly sensation when you run a fingernail over the palm of your hand. That's lost when you're cut.

I of course don't believe this for a second, but for sake of argument, lets pretend there is no difference.

There is STILL a big difference for another obvious reason. The person with an intact penis can pull back the skin, and the inner skin stretches down a fair degree. I'd estimate anywhere between an inch and a half to two sometimes. When cut particularly high like I was, the inner skin only stretches down about half an inch. Then you hit the scar line and the normal shaft skin which doesn't have that much sensitivity. So the area of pleasure is drastically reduced and you have far less 'fun' skin to be stimulated.

So it's a bad deal no matter how you slice it. No pun intended.

The other issue here is that people cut as adults are cut in many ways and it's usually nowhere near as brutal as the infant ones since they don't have to rip the damn skin off the glands. plus the frenulum is usually preserved somewhat which would make it FAR more like an uncut penis since many claim it's the best part.

Lastly I've spoken to many men who were cut late in life and with the exception of the ones who had trouble pulling it back, every single one said it was definitely a far reduced sensation and on top of that the natural gliding motion of the foreskin while masturbating was a fantastic sensation that was lost forever.

So there it is. I still feel bitter and will never quite get over the fact that I'll likely never know what I should have had by birthright.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

The other issue here is that people cut as adults are cut in many ways and it's usually nowhere near as brutal as the infant ones since they don't have to rip the damn skin off the glands.
That is true. Besides, most adults do it for medical reasons, not just for fun.
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