When were homosexuality accepted in society?

[Adrian Laguna]

What about other countries that had little effect from Christianity? Like Japan.

Actually, they were affected by Christianity in the late 19th Century, though indirectly. Basically, the Nipponese saw that the Europeans were powerful, and decided to emulate them as closely as possible, unfortunately this also included adopting some of their attitudes toward sexuality. Though it really only made things less open. The really big change was when a deeply Christian and conservative country occupied them in the late 1940s, imposing sexual morality on their society.

Even without those factors, the attitude toward homosexuals has never been entirely accepting in Japan, you were always supposed to get married and have children as a matter of duty. Today in Japan, it's really hard to get taken seriously if you reach 30 and remain unmarried, but they don't have same sex marriage last I checked. You get an odd dual attitude, there are few social problems from having a gay lover, provided you also have a spouse.

[Zixinus]

If I take it from that viewpoint, I think that then the better description is then bisexuality rather then homosexuality.

But what about countries like India, China and Tibet?

[AniThyng]

If I take it from that viewpoint, I think that then the better description is then bisexuality rather then homosexuality.

But what about countries like India, China and Tibet?

India - If one accepts that the british brought significant cultural change to india during thier colonial dominance, I think it's fair to say "open tolerance of gays" was not one of them.

China - much like Japan, no one will make a fuss if you have a gay lover on the side, but you still have to be seen to be a family man. But thats ancient china. Modern China doesn't tolerate it, at least not the open tolerance people are aspiring to.

[Kitsune]

Being found guilty of buggery right back to Henry VIII was a death penalty offence (attempted buggery was 2 years). Enforcement and the dedication of rooting it out varied through time and space as such things do.

I meant more specifically what I had read occurred in the United States during the Nineteenth century.

[Zixinus]

India - If one accepts that the british brought significant cultural change to india during thier colonial dominance, I think it's fair to say "open tolerance of gays" was not one of them.

What about before the British came with their fancy moustaches?

[Kitsune]

Being found guilty of buggery right back to Henry VIII was a death penalty offence (attempted buggery was 2 years). Enforcement and the dedication of rooting it out varied through time and space as such things do.

I meant more specifically what I had read occurred in the United States during the Nineteenth century.

I also want to add that I understood the situation in England that it was similar.....

[Ryan Thunder]

Where are you, Hicksville?

Move to Canada, if you get the chance. We'll treat you like a human being.

Not if you live outside any major city. Come tool around the Ottawa Valley, rural Quebec or places like Fort McMurry in Alberta, all chalk full of rednecks, religious nutcases and the usual folk who hate gays (white trash).

\

Dammit. Is there any country that's generally reasonable in this world?

[Broomstick]

Dammit. Is there any country that's generally reasonable in this world?

No

[Aaron]

Dammit. Is there any country that's generally reasonable in this world?

No, Canada is just better than most. There was a teen in the Vancouver area whose was brutally sodomised with a broom handle because he was gay, that's pretty uncommon now (that was early 90's). It's gotten better and better as time goes on but there's always an asshole around somewhere when homosexuality is involved.

[Justforfun000]

Canada is a whole hell of a lot better then many places, but it's true..the rural areas are still set in their redneck ways. Of course this also applies equally well to race and other "differences". It takes urban living to truly foster a sense of inclusiveness. People fear or just simply dislike things different then their norm. It's probably biological in essence, but we have the intellect to overcome that so there really isn't any excuse. But at the same time society is completely to blame because religious bigots and racist pricks that stop things like homosexuality being taught unbiased in schools, and at the very least silently condone insults like faggot or nigger are part of the problem. The old generation is always the worst.

Thankfully the newer ones generally rebel and these days the introduction of gay culture into the general media means the visibility is much greater then the past. In my teens, you NEVER saw it on TV or discussed in school except as an insult or a very very light hearted joke like Billy Crystal on "Soap" or John Ritter on "Three's Company".

Actually the Scandinavian countries are probably the best parallel in the old world to Canada's growing tolerance, as well as the Netherlands. It IS getting better, there is no doubt of that, but the religious assholes that truly despise us for simply existing are the ones fanning the flames of hatred the most. They would give ANYTHING to prove it's truly a choice and not natural even though nature has completely settled that issue. Far too many animals indulge.

[Gullible Jones]

If I take it from that viewpoint, I think that then the better description is then bisexuality rather then homosexuality.

But what about countries like India, China and Tibet?

Well, the stuff on the physical characteristics of the Buddha is decidedly on the homoerotic side..

[Ryan Thunder]

It IS getting better, there is no doubt of that, but the religious assholes that truly despise us for simply existing are the ones fanning the flames of hatred the most. They would give ANYTHING to prove it's truly a choice and not natural even though nature has completely settled that issue. Far too many animals indulge.

Well, even if it were a choice, they still wouldn't be justified in spewing the sort of hatred that they do, not even in the theological sense.

You know, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone [...]" and all that fun stuff that people of religious "authority" all too often seem to conveniently forget.

[Justforfun000]

Well, even if it were a choice, they still wouldn't be justified in spewing the sort of hatred that they do, not even in the theological sense.

You know, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone [...]" and all that fun stuff that people of religious "authority" all too often seem to conveniently forget. Rolling Eyes

Well, this is true, but I find that they just love using that specific word "unnatural" as if it was a divine judgment leaving no room for argument and it really pisses me off. The fact that it IS very natural is a huge blow to their insinuation that it is against the 'proper' order of things. Hell as most of us here understand now, there isn't any such THING as the proper order of things. That implies a sentient creator and controller.

But that's why it's a powerful argument back to the people that are convinced that there is a God and that life is purposeful. They really can't argue convincingly when a scientist can prove that hundreds of species have same sex relations and in some cases fully mated pair-bonds. The ones that do have absolutely no grasp of logic and they're fucking hopeless anyway. Mike has the right idea. Those people deserve every bit of mockery and scorn you can throw their way. If they insist on acting so arrogantly certain that their unsubstantiated beliefs should be seriously considered and in fact MANDATED by law when they can force them in, then screw them sideways with a pogo stick. I'm DONE appeasing bigots. It's time to stand up and shout them down. Thankfully Dawkins and the other atheist authors are finally being listened to.

Now for all we know, there COULD be the chance of a God, and the truth might be somewhere in the completely unknown middle of the two spectrum's, but I can be pretty damn sure that no major mainstream religion is correct. They're all so full of holes you could drive a truck through them.

[Omeganian]

BTW, about Odysseus. That's Greek mythology, memories of a time when the woman was still somewhat equal to a man AND compensation for the actual situation in classic Athens. However, after the developement of a polis, in time the situation arrived to such a point (especially in Athens), that a male had to seek the company of other men (or a hetaira). You could not talk with your wife about any decent topic nor before nor after. Too uneducated.

[PainRack]

India - If one accepts that the british brought significant cultural change to india during thier colonial dominance, I think it's fair to say "open tolerance of gays" was not one of them.

Its interesting to read memoirs by British officers, because a good number mention gay sex with their Indian attaches.