O-Wing & C-Wing

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-21 08:56pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Kenny_10_Bellys wrote: ...suitably levened with my admiration for the O-Wing, which I am modelling now. He's a good lad, he can handle it, and I can't think of anything constructive to say about the C-wing, sorry.
He was (is?) in the British armed forces. There's no doubt he can take worse.

*sobs* I'm fine, I can take *breaks down in tears* Waaaah.

Enlightenment wrote: Its just that there are so few people here posting original stuff and I'd like to keep the environment reasonably friendly (by SD.net standards at least) so as not to scare off any SD newbies or beginners. Bunnies in light is way too much but 'frankly I don't like that.' or 'I don't like that because _______' is a lot nicer than 'that sucks.'

Fair enough, I take the view with my own stuff that "If you can't take the criticism, don't post it.", but I know what you saying.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-21 09:24pm

OK, let slip the dogs of war....

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owing.jpg

This is about half an hour of modelling, and now it's time for bed. The lighting and textures are shite, but then it's late and there's far to go, young apprentice. Don't go by the crap on my site, I haven't updated that thing in nearly 5 months and my stuff now is a tad better. That's the thing with Lightwave, you keep having these epiphanies every few weeks and suddenly you reach a new level as you learn a new technique. A bit like my Kung Fu class, actually.

Let me know what's needing changed and I'll see what i can do. The wing size is purely arbitrary, it's not specified on your drawing. The body is almost exactly 9 metres long though, so judge it from that. Of course as it's a Star Wars ship, it'll need a shitload of pipes and detailing to get it looking ok, but for now stick to the gross stuff and we'll work on the small stuff later.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-21 11:08pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:OK, let slip the dogs of war....

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owing.jpg

This is about half an hour of modelling, and now it's time for bed. The lighting and textures are shite, but then it's late and there's far to go, young apprentice. Don't go by the crap on my site, I haven't updated that thing in nearly 5 months and my stuff now is a tad better. That's the thing with Lightwave, you keep having these epiphanies every few weeks and suddenly you reach a new level as you learn a new technique. A bit like my Kung Fu class, actually.

Sounds fun (the Lightwave and the Kung Fu).

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:Let me know what's needing changed and I'll see what i can do. The wing size is purely arbitrary, it's not specified on your drawing. The body is almost exactly 9 metres long though, so judge it from that. Of course as it's a Star Wars ship, it'll need a shitload of pipes and detailing to get it looking ok, but for now stick to the gross stuff and we'll work on the small stuff later.

Very small list as the fundamentals are there structurely, The bottom 1/3 of the cockpit needs to go, if you look at the Second drawings I did, the cockpit ends well before the nose. I love the look of the scallops in the wings, but with the rear guns on the sides instead of top and bottom the cutaway needs to be on the side rather than the top. Could the Engines and the longest trailing edge of the wing end at the same point as the Main body, or just a more subdued overhang? The angled sides look good, is there a way to give them a curve where the angles meet to reduce the edges, and reduce the width of the top half so there is a less pronounced overhang? For the detailing of the rear of the body, it's the Hyperdrive unit so the back is the same textures as an X-wings rear. The distance between the Front edge of the wing and the rear of the cockpit could be halved (as in the piece of fuselage just gets chopped out, not the wing extended) you could get a reduction in length and still have room for the R8 unit (R8 is 60-70 cm in Diametre) with room to spare. From the front view, I think the Wing needs to come in a bit, as the landing gear would have to be too long to reach the floor with the current diametre. Other than that, Yeehaa.

Thanks again for taking the time to do this, I appreciate it.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-22 02:38am

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owing.jpg

To tell you the truth...

It looks like an early Starfleet warp shuttle. Seriously.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-22 05:18am

What warp shuttle? Anything like these...

Anyway, on to the O-Wing...

Rotate the wing cutouts............Check
Shorten the forward body.........Check
Match the wing/body ends.........Check
Cockpit change........................Check
Hyperdrive rear like X-Wing......Check
More rounded fuselage edges....Check

As for the other stuff, we need to talk. I can't make the top half of the fuselage any thinner, no one but those weird cloner aliens would fit inside it if i did, including your R8 droid. The top is currently about 0.8 metres across anyway, so i think it'll have to stay the way it is. As for the wing size, I'd prefer to make it larger and stand further from the body personally, if i move it closer in it's going to be more of a spoiler than a wing and your fighter is going to come out of this shaped like a brick.

With the wing as it is now (or larger) you are quite right about the landing gear, it would look dumb, but to be honest it'll look spindly even on a smaller wing, it has to reach so far. I'd prefer a solution similar to the X-Wing myself; stick landing gear in/on the two lower engine pods and have one long forward gear in the underside of the nose. Much more stable and believable, and easier to animate.

Once we have the gross details sorted out, it's on to adding the real nitty gritty, pipes, panels, guns, scorch marks, pilot, colours, etc.

Dirty Harry · Post by **Dirty Harry** » 2003-01-22 10:19am

Your ships look fine to me Rob. just about all of the ships I've scribbled have been influenced been by one Sci-fi thing or another ( usually by wing commander). Sorry Kenny , but the ships in that just look cool

.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-22 11:08am

I don't really have a problem with the ships as such, it's just the games were excecrable. The Kilrathi stuff is a bit crappy, I was never particularly into the asymmetric stuff, but the human ships are ok I suppose. X-Wing moved properly, looked good and had the best damn music anyone could ask for in a flying game, while WC games had cardboard cutout ships moving very jerkily, followed by interminable boring cutscenes. No contest.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-22 01:15pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:What warp shuttle? Anything like these...

I mean a pre-Starfleet shuttle, like the hypothetical ones on EAS's History section. Not like the shuttles from ENT.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-22 02:03pm

Hmm, most of the pre-TOS shuttle designs I've seen looked like balloon animals, not my favourite stuff. I never could figure out why we'd be flying around in Flash Gordon style stuff in the 21st/22nd Century when we have better design aesthetics in this time. Anyway...

Check this one out Rob and let me know your opinion. There's a good chance I'll be in the pub or at the Kung Fu tonight, but I'll do what I can when I get the word from you. As I said before, once the shape is to your liking I'll begin the real work of turning it into a real fighter. It's softer and more rounder and kinder to your hands, and I've shifted the wing, etc. The rear will be like the X-Wing hyperdrive detail and the guns will be pretty similar to your sketch.

You'll also be pleased to hear I had yet another epiphany making the new body

Now I know how to use Bandglue in the post MetaNURB freezing stage to drastically reduce poly counts and non planars. WooHoo!

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-22 05:13pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote: Check this one out Rob and let me know your opinion. There's a good chance I'll be in the pub or at the Kung Fu tonight, but I'll do what I can when I get the word from you. As I said before, once the shape is to your liking I'll begin the real work of turning it into a real fighter. It's softer and more rounder and kinder to your hands, and I've shifted the wing, etc. The rear will be like the X-Wing hyperdrive detail and the guns will be pretty similar to your sketch.

You'll also be pleased to hear I had yet another epiphany making the new body Now I know how to use Bandglue in the post MetaNURB freezing stage to drastically reduce poly counts and non planars. WooHoo!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owing1.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owing2.jpg

*Drooooool* I love it! I have to admit though, looking at the way it looked with the Long wing edges at the side, I think having that long extention on the sides as well as the top and bottom would look fantastic, The rear gun could be mounted on the rear face of the main body (it's only a small turret) like on a LAAT/i, that also gives you a longer surface on the sides for mounting the main Guns.

I agree on the Landing struts in your other posts, perhaps a pair of housings on the bottom of the ring, mounted flush to the inside edges of the bottom engines. I hadn't realised how thin the overall profile would be so I'm happy with your suggestion to keep it at it's present width. The body shape and the contouring is fantastic, the whole thing looks better than I thought it would.

I forgot to say last time, that I love the engine outlet shaping, it looks like it could do some serious vectored thrust maneouvres (which for a dogfighter is pretty essential), so for atmosphere hotdoging it's got the Repulsors all over the Ring and in space it uses it's ability to offset its exhaust to pull tight turns (almost like a Handbrake turn, with the rear sliding round - maybe small reaction ports in the nose to pinwheel that part round - though not a spin-on-axis turn of a B5 fighter), marry that to a small profile from nearly any angle and a rear gun preventing a tail-on approach, and you have the enemy trying for high deflection shots on a target that's constantly jinking around like a Mouse on speed!

Thanks!

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-22 05:17pm

Dirty Harry wrote:Your ships look fine to me Rob. just about all of the ships I've scribbled have been influenced been by one Sci-fi thing or another ( usually by wing commander). Sorry Kenny , but the ships in that just look cool .

You've never had my 10-12 year old ST ship designs inflicted on you.

As to Wing Commander, there was something aesthetically pleasing about the larger Kilrathi designs, I never liked the Terran ships looks (loved the sheer firepower though

).

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-22 05:21pm

My only gripe with the O-Wing is that I can't see the guns.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-22 05:22pm

Crayz9000 wrote:
Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owing.jpg
To tell you the truth...

It looks like an early Starfleet warp shuttle. Seriously.

Well the front of it (before the leading edge of the wing) in the first rendering could almost be a Worker Bee from the Motionless Picture, or the transport pod with Kirk and Scotty in it. Is that what you meant?

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-22 05:23pm

HemlockGrey wrote:My only gripe with the O-Wing is that I can't see the guns.

He hasn't added them yet, he's getting the structural stuff out the way before the weapons and other details I presume.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-01-22 05:53pm

If you think about it, the term "O-wing" has a certain... erotic... sense to it...

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-22 06:05pm

SPOOFE wrote:If you think about it, the term "O-wing" has a certain... erotic... sense to it...

Only if you have a lisp (cue kojikun's Elmer Fudd fixation

).

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-22 07:26pm

Your right, no point sticking guns on it till we've got something to hang the guns from, so I'll redesign the wing a little and see how it looks first, then mount the weaponary. You guys must be starved of decent models if you think this is in any way finished, we've only just begun!

You are also right about the cockpit of the prototype, it does resemble the ST Workbee from the Slow Motion picture. See, no getting away from all the previous designs out there that we've seen and unconciously absorbed.

As for the turret, I'd rather mount it dorsally or ventrally at the tail and leave the indentation area free for the hyperdrive/engine detailing like the X-wing has. It's a small fighter, I'd hate to hang a fuggin big turret on it's ass where a smaller one would do the job. If it's so damned maneouverable then there's little point in putting something large back there, it'll never see a target long enough. Something to give them a fright and put off attacks should do the trick without spoiling the lines.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-22 07:36pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:Your right, no point sticking guns on it till we've got something to hang the guns from, so I'll redesign the wing a little and see how it looks first, then mount the weaponary. You guys must be starved of decent models if you think this is in any way finished, we've only just begun! You are also right about the cockpit of the prototype, it does resemble the ST Workbee from the Slow Motion picture. See, no getting away from all the previous designs out there that we've seen and unconciously absorbed.

Never worked with models before.

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:As for the turret, I'd rather mount it dorsally or ventrally at the tail and leave the indentation area free for the hyperdrive/engine detailing like the X-wing has. It's a small fighter, I'd hate to hang a fuggin big turret on it's ass where a smaller one would do the job. If it's so damned maneouverable then there's little point in putting something large back there, it'll never see a target long enough. Something to give them a fright and put off attacks should do the trick without spoiling the lines.

Woah, I don't want a large turret, I'm thinking something the size of the rear gun on a LAAT/I you can just see it in the picture on this page (the small piece of light in the shadow at the back). It's a small blaster to deter pursuers (both physically and mentally) and deal with incoming missiles/torps.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-22 08:05pm

Small turret, no problem, it'll fit somewhere at the rear. The main bother is this damn wing. Check the revised pictures below and see if it's what you imagined. If you have a better design in mind I think you'll have to sketch it, it's too damn difficult to describe any other way. I'd just end up making an arse of it again and we'll get nowhere. Remember to try and visualise long weapons pods attached to the sides of the wing when you do this, otherwise once I add them you might change yer mind again. Let me know what revisions this one needs and we'll see what happens.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owingnew.jpg

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-22 09:13pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:Small turret, no problem, it'll fit somewhere at the rear. The main bother is this damn wing. Check the revised pictures below and see if it's what you imagined. If you have a better design in mind I think you'll have to sketch it, it's too damn difficult to describe any other way. I'd just end up making an arse of it again and we'll get nowhere. Remember to try and visualise long weapons pods attached to the sides of the wing when you do this, otherwise once I add them you might change yer mind again. Let me know what revisions this one needs and we'll see what happens.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owingnew.jpg

Make the top and bottom trailing edges of the wing the same as the side ones and your sorted.

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-23 07:53pm

Ok, it's update time again. This time I've begun gross detailing work on the body and engines as well as making the changes requested to the main wing. No real texturing work done, but I think a sandy colour scheme suits it, so maybe a sort of AoTC look overall, eh? Maybe a little rocket firing animation when it's done would be fun, cos next I'm going to begin modelling the side weapon pods and the torpedo launchers. I'm thinking may just one torpedo launcher inboard on the body, rather than one dorsal AND ventral as your first drawing suggests Rob. For preference I'd like to stick a little rocket launching device on the outboard weapons pods but you can veto that if you don't like it I suppose, it'll just look groovier in animations.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owing6.jpg
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/kenny7/Owing7.jpg

Kenny_10_Bellys · Post by **Kenny_10_Bellys** » 2003-01-23 07:57pm

Hey, a thought just occurred to me while testing the picture links...

How about hollowing out the rear trailing sections of the main wing, the tapering points? Cut out squares so that rather than being solid all the way to the end there'd be a 'window' that stretches from the end of the main area of the wing until almost the end of the wing?

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-23 09:31pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote:Hey, a thought just occurred to me while testing the picture links...

How about hollowing out the rear trailing sections of the main wing, the tapering points? Cut out squares so that rather than being solid all the way to the end there'd be a 'window' that stretches from the end of the main area of the wing until almost the end of the wing?

Do a test pic and lets see.

The colour scheme is excellent, as to the torp mags, just the one on the bottom should be fine; the missiles pods on the wings, do you mean a rocket pod like a Zuni? Perhaps for unguided rocket attacks as an add-on for CAS missions.

You've not steered me wrong so far, so go for it, BTW I love the canopy finish here. The whole things looking brilliant.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2003-01-23 09:34pm

Kenny_10_Bellys wrote: it'll just look groovier in animations.

Animation?

*begins running in circles making little yippee noises, and jumping*

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-23 09:52pm

So how long did it take you to acquire these Lightwave skills?