Outlaw Star and Firefly/Serenity similarities

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Outlaw Star and Firefly/Serenity similarities

Post by Warsie »

I know this has been discussed elsewhere what what about here. When I saw Serenity 2 yrs ago, I noticed the similarities in comparison to Outlaw Star, the fusion of English(or American lol) and Chinese, the space settings, etc.

there's this thing this persn wrote too; noticed this a while ago:
[edit] Firefly and Outlaw Star

There are many similarities between elements of Firefly and anime series Outlaw Star.

* Comparing and contrasting River Tam of Firefly and Melfina of Outlaw Star
o Both are transported in a cargo box taken on by a transport hired by the box's possessor, who doesn't reveal the box's contents. River's brother Simon Tam hires Malcolm Reynolds and Serenity for their voyage. "Hot Ice" Hilda hires Jim, Gene, and the Outlaw Star to unknowingly transport Melfina.
o Both women are revealed in their series' first episode cliffhanger conclusion, during or shortly after a gun fight. River is uncrated by Mal after a Mexican standoff with an undercover Alliance officer looking for the fugitive girl. Melfina awakens in the middle of a battle with the Kei Pirates who are trying to recover her.
o Both fugitives have unusual abilities that are programmed in by the military government in their universe. River is a genius child whose brain was experimentally altered by the Alliance, Firefly's military government. Melfina is a bio-android built by the "Space Forces", Outlaw Star's military government.
o Both girls are stolen by a party not heard from after their thievery. River was taken by a terrorist organization mentioned only in dialogue in the Firely episode "Ariel" and over radios in Serenity (Serenity also slightly alters the original cannon from "Ariel", having Simon actually take River as opposed to taking her from the terrorist group that took her, according to his "Ariel" dialogue). Melfina is taken by Hilda who dies in the second episode and while her death spurs Gene on to discover the mysteries of the Outlaw Star and Melfina, Hilda has no further appearances in the series.
o Both are aided for the majority of the series by someone who didn't originally steal them from the government, and both helpers have sworn to unlock the girls' secrets. Simon promises to unlock what the Alliance did to River's brain (according to the "Ariel" speech Simon didn't actually steal River, he merely orchestrated it). Gene promises Melfina he will figure out why she was made (River's alterations can be seen as re-making her, for a true analogy).

* Other similarities:
o Both series present vicious opponents who commit horrific acts of violence. Firefly's feral Reavers have no order, creed, or code of any kind and exist "on the edge of space", outside of the control and even awareness of Alliance law enforcement. Outlaw Star's Space Pirates are broken into ordered clans who live in "Pirate Territory", outside the influence of the Space Forces.
o Both series are centered around the activities of outlaws. Just as Serenity's crew performs illegal salvage and smuggling along with the occasional honest transport job to get by, the Outlaw Star crew, part of the "Outlaw" clan, supplements its illegal activities through legal Starwind and Hawking Enterprises jobs.
o Both ships are regarded as an additional character to their series, with its own "personality". Serenity is referred to by the cast and crew as "the 10th character", even warranting its own special feature on the DVD release of Firefly. The Outlaw Star has the more literal personality of the in-ship AI, Gilium.
o Both ships have a thick-headed, muscle-bound warrior who seeks monetary reward using the fugitive. Jayne Cobb wants to turn in River (and Simon) for a reward, while Aisha Clan-Clan (crewmember of the Outlaw Star) desperately wants the valuable treasure she believes the Galactic Leyline to be, which can only be reached with Melfina's navigational abilities.
o Both ships have mysterious, spiritual warriors on board with unknown backgrounds who come and go. Shepherd Book is a Christian monk who demonstrates incredible fighting abilities and an unexplained knowledge of criminal activity. "Twilight" Suzuka is a mysterious assassin with an unknown past (who often quotes Buddhist/Confucianist wisdom).
o Both ships have childlike engineers who have an oft-adversarial relationship with the captain, but always make up with him in the end. Kaylee Frye is Serenity's young engineer, whose upbeat attitude and innocence often clashes with the captain's realism and dangerous plans. Jim Hawking is an actual child, a mechanical expert who often fights with Gene over their finances or the latter's wild plans.
o Both series feature ominous villains who will stop at nothing to catch the fugitives. River is pursued by the murderous Blue Gloves, an insane mercenary (Jubal Early), and in the movie Serenity, a cruel person known as The Operative. In Outlaw Star, Melfina is pursed by a vicious pair known as the MacDougall Brothers.
o Both series feature a repeating character who the captain dislikes, but is forced to visit for supplies. In Firefly, Mal finds Adlai Niska disgusting because he is violent, but takes jobs from him. Mal also frequently works for Badger, who he consideres a "psychotic lowlife." In Outlaw Star, Fred Luo is a rich buisnessman with a homosexual attraction to Gene Starwind which Gene finds disgusting, but Gene is forced to take jobs and supplies from him.
o The title of Firefly is the class of the main character's ship. The title of Outlaw Star is the name of the main character's ship.
o In both the captains help out otherwise enemies belong in the militaries that would arrest them from salvaging from wrecks only to help them defeat the reavers/pirates.

* Thus, we can see the following connections:
o River Tam = Melfina
o Malcolm Reynolds = Gene Starwind
o Kaylee Frye = Jim Hawking
o Jayne Cobb = Aisha Clan-Clan
o Shepherd Book = "Twilight" Suzuka
o Serenity = Gilium (AI of the Outlaw Star)
o The Operative, Jubal Early, and repeatedly Blue Gloves = MacDougall Brothers
o The Alliance = The Space Forces
o Reavers = Space Pirates (particularly the Kei Pirates)
o Illegal salvage and smuggling operations = The Outlaws
o Full understanding of what the Alliance did to River = The Galactic Leyline (each solves the mysteries of River/Melfina)
o Adlai Niska/Badger = Fred Luo

[edit] Serenity (film) and Outlaw Star

The movie continuation of Firefly contains some further connections to Outlaw Star that cannot be ignored.

* The climax of the film involves a massive battle including the three main parties of the series as a whole, the Reavers, Alliance, and Firefly. The climax of Outlaw Star involves a space battle between the Kei Pirates, the Space Forces, and the Outlaw Star.
* The climactic battle in Firefly took place above Mr. Universe's planet, which had a severely ionic atmosphere so one could see what was on one side from the other. The climactic battle in Outlaw Star took place above the Galactic Leyline planet, which had a severely ionic atmosphere so no one could see what was on one side from the other.
* In Serenity' River is the only person on Serenity who knows where the final planet (Miranda) and knows there's anything worthwhile there. In Outlaw Star Melfina is the only person on the Outlaw Star who knows where the Galactic Leyline is, and that there's anything there.
* The Name of the planet where the mystery in Serenity is Miranda which is the same as the password to the coordinates to find the Galactic Leyline.
* The title of Serenity is the name of the main character's ship. The title of Outlaw Star is the name of the main character's ship.
* Finding Serenity is part of a song that Melfina sings towards the end of the series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Staxringold/Firefly

So do you think Josh Whedon intentionally ripped this off?
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Post by Warsie »

I forgot this:
http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/CategoryShips

see the ship diagram and how similar it seems to some Grappler Ships/Outlaw Star ships.
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Post by Ford Prefect »

Do I think Joss Whedon ripped off an anime featuring a spaceships that coudl wrestle with each other and outright mystical plot involving space wizards, where the main character made use of a gun that fired enchanted bullets? ZOMG they both have climatic battles! Holy crap, they both have a character that was experimented on by the government! They both have characters that conform to comfortable tropes that have existed in media since time immemorial!

Seriously, the fact that Outlaw Star has the Kei Pirates and the Galactic Leyline and Firefly has nothing even remotely comparable. When it comes down to it, River was only experiemnted on tas part of a super-soldier experiment, while Melfina was designed in order to find the Space Holy Grail.
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Post by Stark »

Firefly doesn't have suspiciously Outlaw Star characters: it has amazingly cliched characters.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Honestly, I think the only thing Whedon could genuinely be accused of "ripping off" from Outlaw Star is that both shows' Mysterious Female Characters are introduced awakening from a cryostasis trunk.

Otherwise, they're just two shows barely within the same subgenre (Space Western) that don't have much of anything to do with each other.
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Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

Warsie wrote:So do you think Josh Whedon intentionally ripped this off?
What are you kidding?

No he didnt rip off Outlaw Star, as much as i love both shows they're breathtakingly different. Sitting and listing them all would take far too long but long story short, this is like saying that George Lucas ripped off Star Trek because both shows are set in the future and have spaceships. Yeah, sure, thats true...but otherwise they're so utterly different in tone and structure that any comparison brakes down at a cursory glance.

Though i did get a serious feeling he wrote Firefly after watching a few episodes of Cowboy Bebop, another show i love.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Outlaw Star and Firefly seem to drink from the same well, rather than Firefly being a rip-off (even if Melfina and River's appearance ARE remarkably similar and I'm pretty sure Joss Whedon would have been aware of Outlaw Star).

People have been saying Firefly ripped off Outlaw Star from day one, but really it's a pretty superficial comparision. It just happens that both are pretty cliche and derivative. :)
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Post by Stark »

Yeah Gil's got it: they're both intentionally cliched western-style shows. Of course they're going to rip off the same stuff! :)
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Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

Interestingly, they both are shows where, imo, the characters were developed far better and felt far more "real" and personable than other shows that go for some imagined "gritty realism" and come off as insufferable and nihilistic (i'm looking at you, Battlestar Galactica).

More to the point, however, both shows managed to be quite well liked by the viewing public, in spite (or, IMO, because of) their more optimistic, heroic outlook and eschewing of the alleged "gritty realism" that's become a prevailing force in nearly all media today.


Now Cowboy Bebop on the other hand...is just as gritty and nihilistic as they come, so i guess thats just good writing.
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Post by UCBooties »

I see where the impression comes from. I saw the trailer for firefly while OS was still on the air. Cowboys in space and at the end a girl comes out of a suitcase. I was actually pretty pissed off at the time because it looked like they'd ripped it off lock stock and barrel. Thing is, that impression evaporated immediately as soon as I actually saw some of Firefly. Totally different characters and totally different tone. Sure there are similarities but as other people have pointed out, it's not like those things aren't common archetypes and cliches anyway.

I will always remain slightly suspicious of the whole River in a briefcase thing but other than that it's a completely hollow argument that I was only able to buy into when I had never seen one of the shows in question.
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Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

I think, actually, the "girl in the box" thing is just kind of a given. To me anyway.

Look, both River and Mel are very small, slim, waif like things and you need to transport them secretly and quietly ina way that can be easily concealed as something more mundane. A suitcase or box of some sort seems obvious to me...more so, both shows ripped off, if anything, the urban legend of the guy who packed himself in a crate and mailed himself home to save money on a plane ticket. That one has been around for ages...like i said, it's kind of an obvious idea and one i'm sure innumerable people have had over the years.
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Post by UCBooties »

Ghetto Edit: You have got to be fucking kidding me. I just read through that list again instead of skimming it. Badger and Niska = Fred Lowe?! :lol:

Riiiiiiight. One's a nancing Queen who will bend over every which way to help the main characters (but I'll still be taking our cut thank you very much) and this is the same as a cockney drug runner whose awfully quick to betray and a black market sociopath?

Wow... well done.

Since they've clearly got the tinfoil hat turned all the way up to "Roswell Aliens conspired with Elvis and the CIA to cause 911" one has to wonder that their not harping on the fact that reaver ships have grapplers and magnet thingies to ensnare other ships. You'd think they'd be all over that.
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Post by UCBooties »

18-Till-I-Die wrote:I think, actually, the "girl in the box" thing is just kind of a given. To me anyway.

Look, both River and Mel are very small, slim, waif like things and you need to transport them secretly and quietly ina way that can be easily concealed as something more mundane. A suitcase or box of some sort seems obvious to me...more so, both shows ripped off, if anything, the urban legend of the guy who packed himself in a crate and mailed himself home to save money on a plane ticket. That one has been around for ages...like i said, it's kind of an obvious idea and one i'm sure innumerable people have had over the years.
I'll be the first to admit that it's entirely possible that two people had the same idea and they were both implemented independently with no knowledge of the other. In fact, it's not just possible, I'm pretty sure it happens all the time.

I know that it's wholly subjective but I just get a funny feeling when I see the River waking up scene. It's not just that it's the same idea but that it was done in the same way. Same type of scene, similar shots, similar reactions. It's all subjective and I'm not going to harp on it, but it always gives me a pause and makes me thing "wow, this is just like that scene in outlaw star."
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Post by Ford Prefect »

To be honest, I'm not even sure why people consider Outlaw Star a space western. There are more space pirate wizards than there are cowboys, and it's got more in common with Taoism than anything. It's no more a space western than Cowboy Bebop is.
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Post by Warsie »

UCBooties wrote: Since they've clearly got the tinfoil hat turned all the way up to "Roswell Aliens conspired with Elvis and the CIA to cause 911" one has to wonder that their not harping on the fact that reaver ships have grapplers and magnet thingies to ensnare other ships. You'd think they'd be all over that.
I believe they did mention it in there on the article. Maybe I accidentally skimmed it off but I remember they mentioned it.
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Post by Warsie »

18-Till-I-Die wrote:. A suitcase or box of some sort seems obvious to me...more so, both shows ripped off, if anything, the urban legend of the guy who packed himself in a crate and mailed himself home to save money on a plane ticket. That one has been around for ages...like i said, it's kind of an obvious idea and one i'm sure innumerable people have had over the years.
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Ford Prefect wrote:To be honest, I'm not even sure why people consider Outlaw Star a space western. There are more space pirate wizards than there are cowboys, and it's got more in common with Taoism than anything. It's no more a space western than Cowboy Bebop is.
It's basically life in the frontier regions and the like. It's not exact; as in there are Pirates rather then other Outlaws.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Whedon's gone on the record saying he had never seen or hear of Outlaw Star or Cowboy Beebop before he conceived of Firefly, and I believe him.
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Post by Stark »

Ford Prefect wrote:To be honest, I'm not even sure why people consider Outlaw Star a space western. There are more space pirate wizards than there are cowboys, and it's got more in common with Taoism than anything. It's no more a space western than Cowboy Bebop is.
Well, Firefly has Space Jedi and Space Fascists and Space Southerners, so it's not entirely western either. :)
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Post by Joviwan »

I always assumed that Firefly was ripped straight out of Traveler. Outlaw star? What on earth can be found similar aside from generic tropes? Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother.
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Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Joviwan wrote: Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother.
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Post by Ohma »

I forget, what was the justification for the whole grappler thing in OS?
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Post by Ryushikaze »

Ohma wrote:I forget, what was the justification for the whole grappler thing in OS?
Originally, they were used for gathering mined materials from asteroids. Then someone got it into their head to hold gladiator style combat between ships with grappler arms on them. Then things kept escalating until it became the preferred method of arming relatively small non military spacecraft. A good reason? Not really, but I can still see people doing it.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Whedon's gone on the record saying he had never seen or hear of Outlaw Star or Cowboy Beebop before he conceived of Firefly, and I believe him.
I'm still kind of convinced that he nicked River's introduction from Melfina's, because they're seriously exactly the same.
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