Grey Knight Versus Crimson Guardsmen

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Grey Knight Versus Crimson Guardsmen

Post by white_rabbit »

They appear in the Squall (Crimson Empire) But the large gaping pits have been filled in to prevent any nasty accidents.

Both Combatants are fully rested and psyked up for the fight and are armed with their standard weapons.(sort of)


Crimson Guardsmen (i.e. one of the Royal Guardsmen)

Minor force powers probably lowlevel reflex/speed enhancements and telekinesis, enough to lift a Nagitana style weapon from what I can tell from CE:1 Infinities also indicates jedi-style jumps.

Trained to the extreme, standard stormy training or "flash imprinting" if the Stormies all become clones as well as elite training on Yinchorr

Blaster pistol (probably similar to Hans blaster pistol, it looks the same, is described as a "heavy" pistol and is suitably powerful)

Normal Melee weapon is a Force pike, which is a Vibro weapon/shock weapon, but it looks a bit crap in comparison to the Nagitanas in CE so assume the Guardsmen has one of those.

Wears Stormy style armour, but is vastly more resiliant according to most sources, is designed not to inhibit movement but appears to sacrifice protection of certain areas for freedom of movement.

Probably incorporates all the standard toys of Stormy armour i.e. visual enhancements auto-targetting etc.



Grey Knight

From the 40k Universe, a Grey Knight is a Space Marine, i.e. genetically enhanced human.

Basic physical enhancements are organ redundancies, sub-dermal armour, stronger bones..good teeth :wink: speed strength , rapid healing (i.e. minor-medium wounds close/cease bleeding in seconds) multiple organ redundancies immune system enhancements, uber endurance and toughness blah blah blah.

Training for a normal marine is at least the equal of a Crimson guardsmen, multiple combat diciplines in a wide variety of weapons and environs a typical marine "day" when they are elevated to full marine status has around an hours worth of time in which they are not training or "sleeping" (marines dont sleep, max time without regen 312 hours IIRC)

Grey Knights are considered Elite among marines, much like the CGuardsmen are among Stormies.

Armaments.

Nemesis Force Halberd. Large Glaive like weapon with one Blade, can be used one-handed or two handed by the marine, the weapon is surrounded by an energy field generated by the Grey Knight which enables it to slice effortlessly through anything unfortunate enough to be in the way, (also has the side effect of being able to hurt Daemonsbut thats not relevent)

Dual Bolter gauntlet, has a Gauntlet mounted weapon that has two linked bolters or a Stormbolter, fires explosive armour piercing 20mm rounds on semi-full auto.

Grey Knights can wear either specialised Tactical Dreadnaught armour suits or advanced Power Armour suits which enhance speed and strength of the marine as well as protecting them.

Marine armour includes multiple visual enhancing abilities i.e. thermal, magnification, night-vision(marines have superior NV anyway, ) etc, also has an auto-targetting capability that can target multiple objects and include sensor readouts on said targets, the targetting system is linked with the targetting systems of the bolter gauntlet.


For the debate the Marine is using power armour.


Both combatants start outside the Squall, but the fight can move into the ruins as well.

Weather is cold, and windy, with likelyhood of rain.


Who wins ?
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

As I recall most common deployment for the Grey Knights was by teleport using Terminator armour....

It'd be a tough one to call....the Grey Knights are trained to deal with demons etc, so the low end force powers of the Crimson Guard would come as no suprise.....
The explosive ammunition of bolter weapons would probably be fairly good against the stormtrooper style armour (if for no other reason than momentum), since you said power armour is to be used, as I recall it has heat dissipation systems for dealing with las/plasma style hits and servo stabilisation to keep the marine standing......the CG's force enhanced reflexes would be a big advantage....but as I also recall from the older 40k stuff the grey knights did have basic psi training as they are the militant branch of the inqusition.....
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Post by white_rabbit »

Keevan_Colton wrote:As I recall most common deployment for the Grey Knights was by teleport using Terminator armour....

It'd be a tough one to call....the Grey Knights are trained to deal with demons etc, so the low end force powers of the Crimson Guard would come as no suprise.....
The explosive ammunition of bolter weapons would probably be fairly good against the stormtrooper style armour (if for no other reason than momentum), since you said power armour is to be used, as I recall it has heat dissipation systems for dealing with las/plasma style hits and servo stabilisation to keep the marine standing......the CG's force enhanced reflexes would be a big advantage....but as I also recall from the older 40k stuff the grey knights did have basic psi training as they are the militant branch of the inqusition.....

Shit, forgot the psionics.

As for Grey Knights deployment, the new DaemonHunters Codex expands upon the GKs, The First Company of the GK deploys in special suits of Terminator armour, which is very different looking compared to standard Termy armour, its shape is more humanoid, and looks a lot better for moving about in, which would fit in with the fact that GK are routinely called to do some serious close-combat. They have inbuilt protection against psionics i.e. Aegis suits, which allows them to negate psychic powers and/or area effects from said powers, added to which they have legendary mental fortitude, not a single GK has ever fallen to chaos.

Other marines of the GK deploy in rather cool-looking power armour which also has an Aegis suit built in, they use either force Halbeards or Force swords.

All Grey Knights possess psionic powers, and their resiliance level is equal to that of Primaris psykers and Librarians, Their powers are used to "enhance their own native skill and physical abilitys" as well as to co-ordinate and use higher level psychic powers....I believe Holocaust is the standard GK power not sure if they can still cast it though
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Post by NecronLord »

Grey Knight. Five of them plus an inquisitor took down Cherubael. AKA Mr Titan Killer.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

I quit 40k after second edition....I do remember my good 'ol inquisitor though....power armour, a needle sniper rifle, two plasma pistols and a power sword for the real messy stuff....add in vortex the staple of the old inquisition powers and you have one hell of a troop killer....
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Post by white_rabbit »

NecronLord wrote:Grey Knight. Five of them plus an inquisitor took down Cherubael. AKA Mr Titan Killer.

Have you seen the shots from the Codex ?

An Inquisitor and a squad of Grey Knights halting a Daemonic Incursion.

Full A3 picture

at least 3 Greater Daemons of Khorne fully in view, with several suspiciously large axes being waved by somethings mostly out of view, plus at a bare minimum 150 Bloodletters and Flesh Hounds.


ouch.
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Post by NecronLord »

No, not yet. Is it on the net?
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

white_rabbit wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Grey Knight. Five of them plus an inquisitor took down Cherubael. AKA Mr Titan Killer.

Have you seen the shots from the Codex ?

An Inquisitor and a squad of Grey Knights halting a Daemonic Incursion.

Full A3 picture

at least 3 Greater Daemons of Khorne fully in view, with several suspiciously large axes being waved by somethings mostly out of view, plus at a bare minimum 150 Bloodletters and Flesh Hounds.

I once used a squad of 5 plus an inquisitor in terminator armour....they were the army in and of themselves....against a chaos horde....with my lucky dice they took out a Bloodthirster and a Great Unclean One as well as most of a chaos horde.....this was in a big game so there were a bunch of guardsmen as munch-munch fodder....

ouch.
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Post by NecronLord »

I once used a squad of 5 plus an inquisitor in terminator armour....they were the army in and of themselves....against a chaos horde....with my lucky dice they took out a Bloodthirster and a Great Unclean One as well as most of a chaos horde.....this was in a big game so there were a bunch of guardsmen as munch-munch fodder....
MWAHHAHA :twisted:
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Post by white_rabbit »

NecronLord wrote:No, not yet. Is it on the net?

they were but got taken down.

I however happen to have DLed the shot....so give me ya e-mail and I'll send it ya.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

The Royal Guardsmen carry heavy disruptor pistols.
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Post by weemadando »

Grey Knights, this is precisely the kind of thing they are trained for, and they have the kit to pull it off.
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Post by white_rabbit »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Royal Guardsmen carry heavy disruptor pistols.

everything Ive seen points to "heavy blasters"

wheres this from ?
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Post by 2000AD »

Grey Knight vs Royal Guard is about as one sided s Culture vs Just about everyone else. The Grey Knights are the best of the best of the best genetically engeneered soldiers from the best of the normal people. *breathe*

If their in the squall we can probabl;y say they ar eonly using H-t-H weapons. The GK is just as fast (if not fastr) than the RG and is much stronger. Even if the RG hits there is still the question of whether or not he penetrates the armour. Even if it does penetrate the armour, chances are the force pike (or whatever they use) will probably not kill the marine in one go. (unless it goes through his head)
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Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

white_rabbit wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Royal Guardsmen carry heavy disruptor pistols.

everything Ive seen points to "heavy blasters"

wheres this from ?
In "Crimson Empire" Kir Kanos shoots a TIE pilot through the ships window with his blaster. But in the Wraith Squadron novels, multiple shots from a blaster rifle are useless against its window.

So, we come to the conclusion that his gun couldn't have been a normal blaster, but rather a much more powerful disrupter.
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Post by white_rabbit »

2000AD wrote:Grey Knight vs Royal Guard is about as one sided s Culture vs Just about everyone else. The Grey Knights are the best of the best of the best genetically engeneered soldiers from the best of the normal people. *breathe*

If their in the squall we can probabl;y say they ar eonly using H-t-H weapons. The GK is just as fast (if not fastr) than the RG and is much stronger. Even if the RG hits there is still the question of whether or not he penetrates the armour. Even if it does penetrate the armour, chances are the force pike (or whatever they use) will probably not kill the marine in one go. (unless it goes through his head)


Yeah, well, An Iron Warriors Terminator takes two powerswords (Energised 40k "cut through all sorts of shit " weapon") through the abdomen and while its rather painful his reaction is a violent smashing of powerfist into the guy who impaled him and then to pull the sword out and take the legs off another guy.

And these were Space marine blades, we are talking 3-5 inch wide blades minimum, which totally impaled the guy and were surrounded by an energy field.

Admittedly the blades took out his lungs and main heart, plus some general damage, but jesus!
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Post by white_rabbit »

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Royal Guardsmen carry heavy disruptor pistols.

everything Ive seen points to "heavy blasters"

wheres this from ?
In "Crimson Empire" Kir Kanos shoots a TIE pilot through the ships window with his blaster. But in the Wraith Squadron novels, multiple shots from a blaster rifle are useless against its window.

So, we come to the conclusion that his gun couldn't have been a normal blaster, but rather a much more powerful disrupter.

Ummm, while the Essential Tech guide may be a little crap, I cant believe that they got Hans pistol picture wrong.

Crimson empire open in front of me here, and the Blaster Kanos uses is nigh on an exact match for Hans Dl-44(is this right ?)
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Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

white_rabbit wrote: Ummm, while the Essential Tech guide may be a little crap, I cant believe that they got Hans pistol picture wrong.

Crimson empire open in front of me here, and the Blaster Kanos uses is nigh on an exact match for Hans Dl-44(is this right ?)
It wouldn't be impossible for you to fit a disrupter into a Dl-44 case would it?

And if you so believe that itisa regular blaster pistol, how do you dismiss the Wraith Squadron example?
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Post by Balrog »

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
white_rabbit wrote: Ummm, while the Essential Tech guide may be a little crap, I cant believe that they got Hans pistol picture wrong.

Crimson empire open in front of me here, and the Blaster Kanos uses is nigh on an exact match for Hans Dl-44(is this right ?)
It wouldn't be impossible for you to fit a disrupter into a Dl-44 case would it?

And if you so believe that itisa regular blaster pistol, how do you dismiss the Wraith Squadron example?
err, could be a blaster on steroids..... ;)
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Post by white_rabbit »

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
white_rabbit wrote: Ummm, while the Essential Tech guide may be a little crap, I cant believe that they got Hans pistol picture wrong.

Crimson empire open in front of me here, and the Blaster Kanos uses is nigh on an exact match for Hans Dl-44(is this right ?)
It wouldn't be impossible for you to fit a disrupter into a Dl-44 case would it?

And if you so believe that itisa regular blaster pistol, how do you dismiss the Wraith Squadron example?

I dont dismiss it....but if, it looks like a blaster pistol, its called a heavy blaster pistol, I would tend to think it [/i]was a heavy blaster pistol...i.e. the Dl-44

As for the E-11s..*shrugs* maybe they turned them down.

And I have no idea as to whether you could fit a disruptor into a blaster casing.


I can understand Kanos having a disruptor in a blaster casing so he could sneak it about, but then, he also has to sneak that pointy stick and the red armour around....cue another *shrug*
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Post by white_rabbit »

And anyway, the Crimson Guardsmen earlier in the comic have different Blaster pistols to Kanos, whether its a Disruptor, or a disruptor in a Dl-44 costume or a Dl-44.

So...Heavy Blaster pistol...
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Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

white_rabbit wrote:I dont dismiss it....but if, it looks like a blaster pistol, its called a heavy blaster pistol, I would tend to think it [/i]was a heavy blaster pistol...i.e. the Dl-44
looks can be decieving.

As for the E-11s..*shrugs* maybe they turned them down.[/quotes] LETS KICK SOME IMPERIAL ASS! *cranks power waaaaaaayyyyyyy down on rifle* THIS'LL SHOW 'EM!!!
/sarcasm

And anyway, the Crimson Guardsmen earlier in the comic have different Blaster pistols to Kanos, whether its a Disruptor, or a disruptor in a Dl-44 costume or a Dl-44.

So...Heavy Blaster pistol...
Wha? Different blaster pistols to Kanos? Is this english? I don't even know wat the rest of your sentenc is....
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Post by white_rabbit »

Wha? Different blaster pistols to Kanos? Is this english? I don't even know wat the rest of your sentenc is

The Crimson Guardsmen EARLIER in the COMIC have DIFFERENT GUNS TO KANOS. INFACT KANOS HIMSELF HAS A DIFFERENT GUN!

SO WHATEVER HE HAS LATER IS PRETTY MUCH IRRELEVENT TO THIS DEBATE!

Clear enough ?


[/quote]looks can be decieving.

Indeed they can, but your evidence isnt very convincing as to why a weapon that looks like a Dl-44 should be considered a disruptor.

Internal inconsistancy is unfortunate, but exists, although Dl-44s are generally considered rather powerful.

plus I believe disruptors are supposed to frag the entire person, or a large portion of them, Kanos' shot doesnt, although the fact it blasted through the screen may be a mitigating factor in that regard.

And IIRC there were several screens that had to be blasted through in the Wraith Squadron incident...not one.
LETS KICK SOME IMPERIAL ASS! *cranks power waaaaaaayyyyyyy down on rifle* THIS'LL SHOW 'EM!!!
/sarcasm
They do that a lot in the films :lol:


Now thats done with....can you address the thread issue ?
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Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

white_rabbit wrote:The Crimson Guardsmen EARLIER in the COMIC have DIFFERENT GUNS TO KANOS. INFACT KANOS HIMSELF HAS A DIFFERENT GUN!

SO WHATEVER HE HAS LATER IS PRETTY MUCH IRRELEVENT TO THIS DEBATE!

Clear enough ?
Indeed. But I fail to see why, just because Kanos had a different gun earlier, as did the guards, that this somehow makes his gun later NOT a disrupter.
Internal inconsistancy is unfortunate, but exists, although Dl-44s are generally considered rather powerful.
Yes it does, and that's why its up to us, the fans, to try to explain it, that's what I'm doing. And I highly doubt that the DL is powerful enough to a blast through a TIE cockpit when an E-11 isn't (was it an E-11?).
plus I believe disruptors are supposed to frag the entire person, or a large portion of them, Kanos' shot doesnt, although the fact it blasted through the screen may be a mitigating factor in that regard.
That's the idea.
They do that a lot in the films :lol:
Really? Care to explain where?

Now thats done with....can you address the thread issue ?
Sorry, this thread hijack is now in full working order. It is in fact far from finished, as well.
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Post by Vejut »

It was not an E-11. It was a Probe Droid's blaster cannon. Dunno what the relative power there would be...
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