Anybody seen Signs?(commentary on one of its elements)

[Guardsman Bass]

This is a commentary on a basic "theme" of the movie, which appears to be a belief in fate watching over us(blah blah blah) For example,


SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







When the alien is standing over Mel Gibson's "son", it squirts him with some form of toxic gas. However, the boy's lungs happened to be closed at the time because of his asthma, so no gas got in. Basically, it was fate for the boy's lungs to be closed so that he would survive. Or that the girl would leave her water glasses everywhere so that they would spill on the alien, killing it.

I personally think it is nonsense. For example, the boy survives because his lungs were closed. But if his lungs hadn't been closed, then he would have never been layed on the couch, and the alien would never have grabbed him, so he never would have been squirted with the poison.

I am curious as if M. Night Shymalon is a god-fearing man, or at least a believer in fate. Does anybody know?

[Majin Gojira]

Night suffered through catholic schooling (Sadly, the same one I attended). That should be a sufficent answer.

[RedImperator]

I didn't completely agree with his theme, but M. Knight is a good enough filmmaker I'm willing to set things like that aside and just enjoy the movie. Speaking of logic, did anybody bother trying to SHOOT the aliens? Like, your know, with guns and stuff? Because they seem tough compared to a human, but they get cut by knives, can't break through walls, and Joaquain...Jochoain...the guy who played Emperor Commodus whooped one's ass with just a baseball bat (a wooden one at that). So I'd think a .44 caliber hollowpoint slug would drop one of them cold.

[Master of Ossus]

You are correct, that is an inconsistency. BTW, that poison gas was weak as hell. Other people were standing in the room, at the time, and the gas had no effect on them, despite being squirted on the kid for several moments. And it should not have mattered whether or not the kid's lungs were closed, the gas still came into contact with mucus membranes, didn't it?

It is a good movie, but its philosophy (and many other elements of it) are badly flawed.

[Tanith]

The aliens themselves were bloody stupid to come down to raid a planet where just about every household carried easily available substances that were deadly to them and harmless to humans. Ie. tap water.

You'd think that a simple layer of spandex or cloth or *whatever* would have taken care of that particular vulnerability... but no. Those critters had to come down to Earth in their *naked vulnerable flesh*. With absolutely *no* weapons (for stunning/catching runners or breaking down doors) except those dinky bio-gas tubes. Were they just looking to get whacked or something?

[Mr Bean]

Good thing they did not send in the Marines, otherwise we'd be in possesion of thier planet right now

[Master of Ossus]

How can an inter-planetary race be so stupid? They made tactical and strategic blunders from the start.

[Shadow WarChief]

Well you could actually jam in a reaon for the stupidity if you look hard enough.

In Africa, there are Bush-men, who in order to be considered men, must go out and kill a lion with their bare hands.

The aliens could be doing something like this.

Send out their "children" to a primitive world to harvest the primitives. Those that come back, become "men"

It's not so much a legitimate attack as a rite of passage.


Anyone else think this could be possible?

[Master of Ossus]

No. It is implied in the movie that inter-planetary travel, while possible, still takes a significant amount of time. There is little reason to believe that the aliens would have been willing to devote such time to "rites of passage" rituals, and there appeared to be little basis for that, anyway, since rituals always start somewhere.

Incidentally, because blood contains so much water, the Monty Python question, "What are you going to do, bleed on me?" Takes on new meaning if asked by a "Signs" alien.

[Tanith]

Not just blood. Sweat contains a lot of water too, and that little boy had been frantically struggling with asthma for hours... he's got to be soaked in sweat. And yet the alien didn't burn his own hands touching the kid.

*shakes head*

Riiiight.

[Raxmei]

Well you could actually jam in a reaon for the stupidity if you look hard enough.

In Africa, there are Bush-men, who in order to be considered men, must go out and kill a lion with their bare hands.

The aliens could be doing something like this.

Send out their "children" to a primitive world to harvest the primitives. Those that come back, become "men"

It's not so much a legitimate attack as a rite of passage.


Anyone else think this could be possible?

This solution was also suggested on rec.arts.sf.science. The readers decided it was the only way to make the movie even close to plausible.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I didnt see the movie and was not planning on it. Mabye if I had not seen the guys on tv showing how they made crop circles I go.

Anyway, so the aliens are hurt by tap water? Is it just water that hurts them or something in tap water, like chorline or flouride.

I can see it now, "THIS IS MY SUPERSOAKER, THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT, THIS ONE IS MINE! MY SUPERSOAKER IS MY BEST FRIEND."

[VilliageIdiot]

Not just blood. Sweat contains a lot of water too, and that little boy had been frantically struggling with asthma for hours... he's got to be soaked in sweat. And yet the alien didn't burn his own hands touching the kid.

*shakes head*

Riiiight.

Tanith, you forgot to mention that these aliens were also immune to the water vapor in the atomosphere and were intelligent enough to park their little mobiles in, of all things, clouds, which happened to be filled with water droplets. Oh, right, and they breathe our atmosphere just fine. Well, remember the golden rule in films:

If it's alien, it doesn't have to be explainable.

[Emperor Norton II]

Slightly inebriated English artists might equal an alien invasion in some circles, but I am not sure water can stop them.

I recently re-watched the NOVA episode about crop circles on PBS…I think I’ll avoided Signs. After talking to friends that have seen it: it will be cheaper to rent it on video.

[Master of Ossus]

Well you could actually jam in a reaon for the stupidity if you look hard enough.

In Africa, there are Bush-men, who in order to be considered men, must go out and kill a lion with their bare hands.

The aliens could be doing something like this.

Send out their "children" to a primitive world to harvest the primitives. Those that come back, become "men"

It's not so much a legitimate attack as a rite of passage.


Anyone else think this could be possible?

This solution was also suggested on rec.arts.sf.science. The readers decided it was the only way to make the movie even close to plausible.

But the explanation doesn't make sense, either. Read my above post to figure out why.

[Tanith]

Hi V.I., again.

[VilliageIdiot]

Hey Tanith. Again.

[oberon]

I saw a great copy that had DO NOT DUPLICATE across the bottom of the screen, a black line across the top, and red slashes crossing the screen every 90 seconds or something. I thought it was a great movie NOW, I had to scratch my chin and say "maybe what we should take away from this flick is just the drama as shown", that is, how it would be to be in that situation, questioning your faith, being totally cut off from anyone else who could help, and not knowing how pussy these aliens were because of that. Then it's just a nice little scary movie. I was expecting a different direction for this film, what with the way they emphasized crop circles in the previews. I didn't know what to expect, but I was highly disappointed at the War of the Worlds Lite direction. gHeY

[Priesto]

It was to help Mel gibson in his faith, that was the point.Great movie by the way.

[Nick]

It was to help Mel gibson in his faith, that was the point.Great movie by the way.

Well, Graeme Hess, rather.

For mine, the movie veered a little too far in the direction of loss of faith equating to loss of joy in life. (like faith and morality, the two are not correlated, except for people who choose, or are indoctrinated, to tie their self-identity into their faith).

As someone suggested - the movie is quite enjoyable if you ignore the plausibility issues (they can operate in vacuum, but not in a hazardous chemical environment? WTF?), and the possible thematic suggestions above.

Enjoy it for the personal story of Gibson's character (someone who has obvious reasons to perceive a connection between his own faith and his joy in life), and for some of the very good moments of suspense. There are also some good moments relating to their discussion of real-world crop circles (yay, some good sense in a Hollywood movie!), as well as the way the alien invasion relates to the people in the story. As for the plausibility problem - a weird coming-of-age ritual for a species with a mind-buggeringly long lifespan is the most reasonable rationalisation I can see (sure it still has problems - but it's a damn sight better than the alternatives)

All in all, it is far from being a must-see movie (my first comment was 'I think I'm offended' - see my problem with the possible themes above). Which is a shame - the basic plot idea had the potential to make a great flick.

[Crown]

You are correct, that is an inconsistency. BTW, that poison gas was weak as hell. Other people were standing in the room, at the time, and the gas had no effect on them, despite being squirted on the kid for several moments. And it should not have mattered whether or not the kid's lungs were closed, the gas still came into contact with mucus membranes, didn't it?

Incorrect. The alien only squirted Mel's son, after Jaquin (?) picked up the baseball bat. It wasn't for several minutes, more like one second. Also the squirt was very tiny, every poison requires some kind of presence in the blood stream, parts per million/billion, before it's leathal, so there is no reason to assume that one tiny squirt would have had any kind of affect on the others in the room. It would have dissapated, and been relatively harmless.

Your point about mucus membranes though does make sense to me aswell. Perhaps though because lack of respertory activity the poison wasn't inhaled in that direction and again just dissapated in the currents in the room? Don't know if that makes any sense...

[Nick]

Your point about mucus membranes though does make sense to me aswell. Perhaps though because lack of respertory activity the poison wasn't inhaled in that direction and again just dissapated in the currents in the room? Don't know if that makes any sense...

The point about mucous membranes doesn't actually hold. There are plenty of different poisons which can be administered in different ways - the 4 major categories are: contact, inhalable, digestible and injection.

Contact poisons can get into your system through the skin. I don't understand the mechanism (I suspect their are several), but some, such as mercury, can get in anywhere. Other poisons might not get in through toughened skin (such as the soles of your feet) but would easily get in through mucous membraces such as those in the eyes, nose and mouth.

Digestible poisons need to go in via the stomach and intestines and injected poisons need be fed directly into the bloodstream before they are dangerous.

Inhalable poisons actually have to get into the lungs - if they could get into your system via the mucous membranes in your nose, mouth and throat, they'd be more like a sort of contact poison. Your lungs are designed expressly to transfer gases from the air to your bloodstream - poisons which have no effect in any other part of your body can have deadly effect here. A good example is carbon monoxide - the nasty thing about that stuff is that your bloodstream will pick it up in preference to the oxygen you actually need. Death from oxygen starvation follows shortly after. If, however, you have a sealed air supply and the CO never gets into your lungs, you'd be fine (although I still wouldn't recommend sitting around in the CO too long, just on general principles). I have a feeling a single good lungful of CO can actually be fatal - I don't think it diffuses back out of your bloodstream the way carbon dioxide does, so the oxygen in your lungs stops getting absorbed properly. Regardless, the point is that it IS reasonable for a poison gas to have to get into your lungs in order for it to take effect. Not all poison gases will behave that way, but some do.

[Crown]

Inhalable poisons actually have to get into the lungs - if they could get into your system via the mucous membranes in your nose, mouth and throat, they'd be more like a sort of contact poison. Your lungs are designed expressly to transfer gases from the air to your bloodstream - poisons which have no effect in any other part of your body can have deadly effect here. A good example is carbon monoxide - the nasty thing about that stuff is that your bloodstream will pick it up in preference to the oxygen you actually need. Death from oxygen starvation follows shortly after. If, however, you have a sealed air supply and the CO never gets into your lungs, you'd be fine (although I still wouldn't recommend sitting around in the CO too long, just on general principles). I have a feeling a single good lungful of CO can actually be fatal - I don't think it diffuses back out of your bloodstream the way carbon dioxide does, so the oxygen in your lungs stops getting absorbed properly. Regardless, the point is that it IS reasonable for a poison gas to have to get into your lungs in order for it to take effect. Not all poison gases will behave that way, but some do.

Well that answers that! Thanks Nick

[Crown]

Master of Ossus My apology if my reply was a bit harsh, I mis-read moments for minutes.

[Captain Cyran]

I didn't completely agree with his theme, but M. Knight is a good enough filmmaker I'm willing to set things like that aside and just enjoy the movie. Speaking of logic, did anybody bother trying to SHOOT the aliens? Like, your know, with guns and stuff? Because they seem tough compared to a human, but they get cut by knives, can't break through walls, and Joaquain...Jochoain...the guy who played Emperor Commodus whooped one's ass with just a baseball bat (a wooden one at that). So I'd think a .44 caliber hollowpoint slug would drop one of them cold.

And lets remember when that Ray character actually tossed one into his pantry, shut the door, and braced it before it did anything. When one of the actors had said "every race has a weakness" My friend leaned over to me and said "So their weakness is pantry doors?"