Admiral Valdemar wrote:And I figured Blackwater were more akin to OCP. So that's Weyland-Yutani and OCP down, who's next?
Umbrella?
I guess Blackwater could only be exactly like the OCP mercenaries from RoboCop 3 if they were a fully owned subsidiary of General Electric, with GE in turn owned by Mitshubishi (a Zaibatsu with it's own private army of robo-ninjas ). IG Farben and it's offspring, Beyer, would definitely both be Umbrella.
I wonder why Blackwater is allowed to be such an undisciplined paramilitary outfit with no formal officer corps, but while mercenary soldiers are disproportionately more dickish than professional soldiers, Blackwater has a pretty high profile reputation for badness and misconduct when other similar PMCs are seemingly much more professional; Britain has a mercenary corps for oddball specilized missions (like VIP protection).
brianeyci wrote:I wonder why the State Department can't use its governmental clout, hire a shitload of ex-military and create their own security service. With government money they can outbid any private company for mercs, with the added bonus of having total and full control of the situation.
They already do. It's called the Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS for short). Which is why I don't really get why they're having to contract out with Blackwater. Maybe DS (like a lot of government agencies nowadays) is underfunded.
brianeyci wrote:I wonder why the State Department can't use its governmental clout, hire a shitload of ex-military and create their own security service. With government money they can outbid any private company for mercs, with the added bonus of having total and full control of the situation.
They already do. It's called the Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS for short). Which is why I don't really get why they're having to contract out with Blackwater. Maybe DS (like a lot of government agencies nowadays) is underfunded.
Ah that's what I was looking for. I vaguely remembered diplomatic SOMETHING then keyed in dhs, usss, etc., but couldn't find what I wanted.
I wonder if Blackwater really has State by the balls, or if State is too in bed with blackwater. I would think a government employee would be more willing to die for the flag than a mercenary, but that's just me. If I was in State, I would find a way to quietly train my own men, then spring it on Blackwater one day that they're no longer needed, but the time for that seems past. Five year contracts sound retarded: it's like five year cell phone plans, stupid to the extreme.
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Kind've failed then, unless you signed the OSA and are now five minutes from having a knock on the door from Little Sister and a trip to Thames House.
Don't get smart with me, Valdemar.
You guys still have Crimean War era records embargoed under various secrecy acts, because even though more than a century and a half have passed; those records would be highly embarassing to various nobility (mainly having to do with how shit-tastic the supply effort for the war was)
And it took me some looking around to jog my memory about the 2040 record issue.
In June 1940, the Lancastria was sunk by German aircraft while evacuating troops and civilians from France - HMG will not release the full government report, including the definitive death toll until.....2040.
Go UK secrecy.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong
"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
The reason Diplomatic Security isn't doing the job is that they don't have nearly enough personell (or the budget). I think the agency as a whole has only a few hundred people to cover the whole world. Basically Diplomatic Security agents in Iraq are attempting to supervise protective details in Iraq that use Blackwater people. Basically they used to sit in the embassy monitering radio traffic. Now I think since the massacre one of their guys goes out with every convoy.
Diplomatic Security, just like the whole State Department, has no money pretty much. Right now the State Department as a whole can only fill about 80% of its posts overseas. Unlike defense projects, money for the State Department doesn't go back to a Congressman's District. Getting support for their projects can therefore be a bitch. Another reason I've heard that Diplomatic Security wasn't massively expanded is that it was assumed the war would be short, so contracters would be the best choice. Then there is also the mantra in Western governments of late that says privitization is the best solution for any possible problem.
Most of the excuses don't really fly, not that I'm criticizing you for stating other people's opinions as clarification. They could hire mercenaries one by one as independent contractors, rather than contracting out to a company. The paperwork might be insane, but this is the damn government and they better know their paperwork. State could have directly pulled former US servicemen, rather than relying on Blackwater and security companies where every other guy lies about being from the SAS. If that doesn't work, go to cops.
State just got on Bush's bad side since Colin Powell. It is a pity that Colin Powell wasn't more of a politician. He chose the worst of both worlds. If he wanted to make a statement, he should have resigned on the eve of the Iraq invasion, or on the conclusive proof that WMD was not present in Iraq. If he wanted to stay to "temper" Bush, he should have sucked cock, and I mean deepthroated Bush, all the while beefing up State with as much funding as possible. But he stayed and did... nothing. Then he resigned and said... nothing.
Not to deviate but why do we still need this sort of protection five years after 'mission accomplished'? If Baghdad was safe enough for McCain to walk around the markets in open daylight then why the security need?
Hell, why don't we just make Erbil the new capitol and put the embassy and State workers there. At least those guys are serious about moving forward and making something work.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
brianeyci wrote: State could have directly pulled former US servicemen, rather than relying on Blackwater and security companies where every other guy lies about being from the SAS. If that doesn't work, go to cops.
It's interesting that you talk or recruiting from ex army and police forces, because that is pretty much exactly what Blackwater does, as well as Diplomatic Security. I think this is one of those areas of government where there is a lot of crossover from the contractors to the government agencies that hire them. The people in DS and Blackwater all come from the same Special Forces outfits. Their very well could be a conflict or interests, as ex DS agents easily get jobs in the private security market.
brianeyci wrote: State could have directly pulled former US servicemen, rather than relying on Blackwater and security companies where every other guy lies about being from the SAS. If that doesn't work, go to cops.
It's interesting that you talk or recruiting from ex army and police forces, because that is pretty much exactly what Blackwater does, as well as Diplomatic Security. I think this is one of those areas of government where there is a lot of crossover from the contractors to the government agencies that hire them. The people in DS and Blackwater all come from the same Special Forces outfits. Their very well could be a conflict or interests, as ex DS agents easily get jobs in the private security market.
I know that, but the government should win any and all bids by offering more money. If Blackwater or private companies offered more money, they'd fast find themselves with a shitload of guys doing nothing, and making no money.
The advantage is you remove the middle man. Blackwater must have more overhead than if State hired directly, and the only issue I see is liability, which should not be a problem if they're hired as independent contractors and not government employees. Plus, the law doesn't apply in Iraq .
MKSheppard wrote:
Don't get smart with me, Valdemar.
I'm afraid I can't stoop to your level, so you'll have to make do, Shep.
You guys still have Crimean War era records embargoed under various secrecy acts, because even though more than a century and a half have passed; those records would be highly embarassing to various nobility (mainly having to do with how shit-tastic the supply effort for the war was)
And it took me some looking around to jog my memory about the 2040 record issue.
In June 1940, the Lancastria was sunk by German aircraft while evacuating troops and civilians from France - HMG will not release the full government report, including the definitive death toll until.....2040.
Go UK secrecy.
And you can blow me. I imagine America has no secrets whatsoever and has never overseen an atrocity that it found prudent to cover up in the interests of national security. So enough of this "Brits don't hang their dirty washing out in public" bullshit, thanks. Just as a reminder, I don't actually feel compelled to cut Whitehall any slack either. I find the governments on both sides of the Atlantic to be pretty despicable, so your highlighting of these actions, which I already am aware of, is pretty redundant, unless you're trying to get a rise out of me.
At least we aren't telling an outfit like Blackwater to have free reign. The notoriety of all other PMCs pales in comparison to what these guys have been doing to Iraqis and your own people.
we declared war on spain over the destruction of a warship, that forensically appears to have been caused by faulty wiring, or by other forms of ship board negligence on our part. The official story from the pentagon, is that it was the result of an external explosion, even though the hull buckled outwards not inwards.
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
Raj Ahten wrote:The reason Diplomatic Security isn't doing the job is that they don't have nearly enough personell (or the budget).
Then they should hire more instead of paying exorbitant rates for mercenaries.
"I have also a paper afloat, with an electromagnetic theory of light, which, till I am convinced to the contrary, I hold to be great guns."
-- James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) Scottish physicist. In a letter to C. H. Cay, 5 January 1865.
As much as I would like to see the US government wash its hands of those mercs, i.e., prosecute them for committing what are de facto war crimes, I don't see how it has a choice. Thanks to Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld's stupidity, there just aren't enough US military service members around to do whatever the hell it is that the State Department hired Blackwater to do. In fact, I can see MORE mercenaries being hired to fill a need as thousands of American soldiers, marines, etc., worn out by repeated deployments to Iraq, say, "Fuck this!" and leave the military.
I wonder if third world governments will offer their militaries for rent by first world nations whose citizens are unwilling to tolerate high casualties, e.g., the US paying the Burmese government to deploy soldiers to Iraq?
Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.
They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
). IG Farben and it's offspring, Beyer, would definitely both be Umbrella.
.
