nBSG Episode 401: "He That Believeth In Me"

[Admiral Drason]

I'm going to throw out a prediction.

Head Six is God.

[Thanas]

And you base this on...what, exactly?

Besides, Head Six has always claimed she is "just" an "angel" fulfilling the will of the one true god. That kinda kills your idea right there, methinks.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I'm glad they lose ships. In oBSG, they never lost anything but the occasional red shirt Viper. Or Voyager, where any damage was magically fixed by the next episode.

This ep was worth it just for the opening scene. I know spit all about astronomy, but when Starbuck said she'd been to Earth and back in six hours, and then mentioned a planet with rings, my first thought is she found a wormhole, with one entrance on the planet she "died" on, and the exit on Jupiter.

So the great Red Eye is in fact an intergalactic gateway? Quick, somebody tell Virgin Airlines or NASA...

or Clarke's Estate...

Starbuck found DAVE BOWMAN!!!!

[Anguirus]

They didn't stop them. What happened is that Galactica put up a flak barrier and the raiders broke formation to avoid that flak barrier. And if Anders wasn't scanned, the fleet would be toast.

Gaeta says the Vipers stopped the thrust. Galactica used flak effectively as always but their pilots are explicitly credited with stopping the Raiders. I suppose their new-ish tactic of missile-spamming with Raptors continues to yield some very positive results.

Anyone else kinda' wince a bit when the Pixis bit it? They've been losing an awful lot of ships lately.

I did, even though I knew it was coming. I'm surprised that it was the only ship that was totally destroyed, to be honest.

[Uraniun235]

This was looking to be the destruction of the Fleet, yet nuclear weapons are still not deployed or even mentioned.

I cant recall if it was the beginning of this ep or the ending of the finale. but while the main focus was on Tigh the background chatter had Adama ordering Gaeta to ready nuclear weapons.

I just re-watched the entire battle and did not hear Adama issue any orders to Gaeta pertaining to the nuclear weapons. Maybe I'm missing it, but you'll have to be more specific as to when exactly that occurs.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Four stars for me. The opening was amazing, as others have said, the effects were spot on and show what a chaotic clusterfuck that battle was going to really become once the Base Stars moved in (and I, too, winced when Pixis bought it). Had it not been for the Raider being spooked by Sam, for whatever reason, they'd have lost it. I still don't buy that Sam, Tigh and so on are the Final Five. But that's not to say they aren't important in another way, as the theory of them being useful in some other way can't be discounted, not after Tigh, at least, was held on New Caprica.

The mental killing of Adama was also a "FUCK ME!" moment. For a second, I almost believed it was real. It just shook me that much in its suddenness, until rational thought kicked back in (and Adama still requesting what the frak was up with Tigh helped too).

Starbuck is a conundrum. On the one hand, it is clear she isn't telling the whole truth of the matter, or at least, she isn't privy to a great deal e.g. the brand new Mk. II Viper, the lack of navicom data or the time dilation. She did pass the good doctor's test and she seemingly isn't a Cylon in other respects, but who knows? If she was one from the start, it may explain some nuances of her personality. That she feels so strongly about Earth's location and being suspected of not being the full shilling is only feeding into her paranoid desperation leading to, of course, a gun facing El Presidente. She has lost it.

On Baltar, you've gotta hand it to him. There is nothing he can't get out of, including being surrounded by delusional women of excellent breeding stock, as it were. And even though he is no longer Jesus Baltar in looks, he did somehow cure a kid of viral encephalitis. He's just that good. I'm curious to see how this pans out, because if the new Cylon one true God thing is real, it makes me wonder what the Final Five thing is really about and whether some supernatural entity really is playing games with the humans and the Cylons together like the old Greek mythologies.

We also don't know what caused the power outage prior to the Cylon fleet jumping in, do we? It wasn't Tigh et al, so who was it?

[Gaidin]

Starbuck is a conundrum. On the one hand, it is clear she isn't telling the whole truth of the matter, or at least, she isn't privy to a great deal e.g. the brand new Mk. II Viper, the lack of navicom data or the time dilation. She did pass the good doctor's test and she seemingly isn't a Cylon in other respects, but who knows? If she was one from the start, it may explain some nuances of her personality. That she feels so strongly about Earth's location and being suspected of not being the full shilling is only feeding into her paranoid desperation leading to, of course, a gun facing El Presidente. She has lost it.

Regarding if she was a cylon, it brings up one question. For the entire series they've been spot on for having their agents have great undercover stories. Why would they suddenly stop that with starbuck if she's a cylon? Why not ding up the viper a bit. Why not forge some navicom data that gives a legitimate amount of travelling that says "Hey she's been places for two months and yea...she got mindfucked and thinks it was 6 hours"?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Regarding if she was a cylon, it brings up one question. For the entire series they've been spot on for having their agents have great undercover stories. Why would they suddenly stop that with starbuck if she's a cylon? Why not ding up the viper a bit. Why not forge some navicom data that gives a legitimate amount of travelling that says "Hey she's been places for two months and yea...she got mindfucked and thinks it was 6 hours"?

All of which makes me question the thing being as clear cut as her being or not being a Cylon. There may be a third option, something related to Earth or the Final Five or something we've not yet considered. Her story is too lousy to be a Cylon cover legend, but doesn't mesh with the Earth artefacts Roslin is following. Could she be purposely put in that situation to confuse?

[SpacedTeddyBear]

The cluster of 3 stars could be Orion's belt.

[Admiral Drason]

And you base this on...what, exactly?

Besides, Head Six has always claimed she is "just" an "angel" fulfilling the will of the one true god. That kinda kills your idea right there, methinks.

Head Six has been manipulating Baltar to manipulate the Colonials to do what ever her plans are

Head Baltar has been manipulating Caprica Six in similar directions.

My theory is that both Caprica and Baltar are being manipulated by the same God.

We can't take her word that she isn't god as the end all be all. Baltar might not need to know that he has been talking with God the entire time. Thus he is lead to believe that he is crazy, talking to an angel, ect.

[CaptJodan]

I just re-watched the entire battle and did not hear Adama issue any orders to Gaeta pertaining to the nuclear weapons. Maybe I'm missing it, but you'll have to be more specific as to when exactly that occurs.

End of the last season, Tigh is just walking into CIC after discovering his Cylon-ness and that is when Adama orders all nuclear weapons armed. It's there.

[CaptJodan]

Gaeta says the Vipers stopped the thrust. Galactica used flak effectively as always but their pilots are explicitly credited with stopping the Raiders. I suppose their new-ish tactic of missile-spamming with Raptors continues to yield some very positive results.

As a completely unprovable theory, it could be that, along with the missile spam Raptor combination, we might be seeing greater effectiveness with sensor jamming on the standard Raptors. We did see some pretty erratic Cylon missiles; many missed their intended targets (or seemed to). Others looked like they had to reacquire their targets. The Colonials may just be getting better at decoying missiles. The Cylons put all their fire on Galactica in Exodus, but here they were splitting their fire (and about time, too).

Having said that, I agree with the opinions on just how unbelievable it was that the fleet took such little damage. Most amazing of all was the very few times that Galactica rocked from a hit, given that 25+ missiles were on their way, and the flak barrier concentrating on missiles going for the civie ships. The only way I can think that they didn't get hit more often was simple jamming from the Raptors, or good shooting from the Viper pilots (which should have been almost exclusively concentrating on incoming missiles to the fleet, or incoming fighters).

[Gaidin]

As a completely unprovable theory, it could be that, along with the missile spam Raptor combination, we might be seeing greater effectiveness with sensor jamming on the standard Raptors. We did see some pretty erratic Cylon missiles; many missed their intended targets (or seemed to). Others looked like they had to reacquire their targets. The Colonials may just be getting better at decoying missiles. The Cylons put all their fire on Galactica in Exodus, but here they were splitting their fire (and about time, too).

Having said that, I agree with the opinions on just how unbelievable it was that the fleet took such little damage. Most amazing of all was the very few times that Galactica rocked from a hit, given that 25+ missiles were on their way, and the flak barrier concentrating on missiles going for the civie ships. The only way I can think that they didn't get hit more often was simple jamming from the Raptors, or good shooting from the Viper pilots (which should have been almost exclusively concentrating on incoming missiles to the fleet, or incoming fighters).

Since I won't be getting the recording for at least two weeks, can anybody confirm whether the vipers broke the Raider push before or after the missiles were launched for the fleet?

Another simple but important idea is the fact that, with the exception of the trainees flying in the emergency, the pilots they have are pretty much the best of the best due to the simple fact that they've survived this long. It's not a big stretch to see that since they're deploying raptors in active combat now, they could also be jamming. As long as they're not jamming the frequencies the raptors are using for their guidance system, the cylon missiles can be left to go haywire unless they got lucky and happen to be on a frequency that isn't jammed.

[Deathstalker]

Did anyone else think for just a moment that Tigh himself was going to head for the hanger deck when Adama told him to order everyone who knew how to fly to get into space? It would have been totally implausible, but it would have been the height of awesome to have an old, one-eyed, washed up, alcholic, human model Cylon strap into a Viper.

[Elessar]

Just saw this. I'm agreeing with majority that the second half of the show definitely seemed to drag on, but then again, I didn't realize how quickly time had passed and the cliffhanger genuinely surprised me.

In terms of neglected characters, I'm really glad Helo got a ton of lines, and Tyrol definitely got his share in too. Unfortunately, Athena got the shaft. I thought it was immensely odd that no one thought of asking her or Caprica Six about Starbuck. Considering how often we see Adama confide in Athena, that was a big shock... less Grace Park.

It did make sense that Roslin couldn't believe Starbuck, even with all the destiny prophet mumble-jumbo floating around her head. Fact is that Roslin is one of the most strong-willed characters when regarding any Cylon. She was probably fighting the urge to toss Starbuck out of an airlock, much less give any credence to this ridiculous 'feeling' for where Earth is. I have a feeling that's something that the writers just didn't have screentime for. They have so many good characters and tons of loose ends, that anytime something ridiculous happens (fleet-wide loss of power), there's just no screentime to devote to explaining the situation. And seriously, the second-half of the episode was slow enough, we don't need people explaining themselves.

What we need is more Jesus Baltar.

[Elessar]

As a completely unprovable theory, it could be that, along with the missile spam Raptor combination, we might be seeing greater effectiveness with sensor jamming on the standard Raptors. We did see some pretty erratic Cylon missiles; many missed their intended targets (or seemed to). Others looked like they had to reacquire their targets. The Colonials may just be getting better at decoying missiles. The Cylons put all their fire on Galactica in Exodus, but here they were splitting their fire (and about time, too).

Having said that, I agree with the opinions on just how unbelievable it was that the fleet took such little damage. Most amazing of all was the very few times that Galactica rocked from a hit, given that 25+ missiles were on their way, and the flak barrier concentrating on missiles going for the civie ships. The only way I can think that they didn't get hit more often was simple jamming from the Raptors, or good shooting from the Viper pilots (which should have been almost exclusively concentrating on incoming missiles to the fleet, or incoming fighters).

Since I won't be getting the recording for at least two weeks, can anybody confirm whether the vipers broke the Raider push before or after the missiles were launched for the fleet?

Vipers broke the initial raider push almost immediately into the battle (but 'reserves broke through'). This was before Tigh-mindfuck and before Anders gets into his Viper. After that, the Pixis goes down and then the missiles are fired.

[Johonebesus]

And you base this on...what, exactly?

Besides, Head Six has always claimed she is "just" an "angel" fulfilling the will of the one true god. That kinda kills your idea right there, methinks.

No, actually, first she claimed to be a normal Cylon communicating through a bug she'd implanted in his brain before the attack. When he finally got scanned and learned there was no chip, she led him to think he was just crazy.* Eventually she claimed to be an angel. I don't see any reason she couldn't be Iblis.

I just thought of something. The Cylon detector worked on Boomer, so did it work on Tigh? When they tested his wife, didn't they end up testing everyone in the room, and Baltar said something to the effect of, "no-one here is a Cylon". Then Head Six asked what the results really were, and he enigmatically said, "I'll never tell," with a creepy grin on his face, implying that maybe one of them was a Cylon. Did he see that Tigh was a Cylon and decide to keep quiet? Did he just not look at the results, out of the same fear that made him lie to Boomer? Did Tigh not register as Cylon? The first possibility seems awfully unlikely.

I rather liked the faith healing sub plot. Baltar seemed unaware that he was being watched when he prayed, and he did tell the father to kill him when he had no hope of escape. It's nice to see that he isn't a sociopathic bastard, but really does possess the ability to put others ahead of himself, just as at the beginning when he gave up the chance to lie and ensure his escape from Caprica. I really do feel sorry for him. The Cylons used him twice, Head Six played him while he suffered crippling guilt and self loathing, and now everyone thinks he was a willing collaborator and traitor when he really was in an impossible situation. Maybe he should have been noble enough to tell the Cylon to kill him instead of signing the death warrant, but would his resistance have saved any lives? He's definitely a self serving coward, and I certainly don't admire him, but I can't find it in my heart to really despise him either. He's just a pathetic little man who's been manipulated the whole time. Who knows, if not for the guilt from the initial attack and Head Six playing with him, he might not have been any worse than a mildly arrogant jerk.



* Of course, if a Cylon could pass for human even with the most sophisticated scans they had, he should have considered that the "chip" was biological, or close enough to fool their medical technology. I'd like to know why the Colonials' medical technology can't detect whatever structures allow Cylon to interface with fiber-optic cables and light up along their spines.

[Oddysseus]

To my mind it seems there are two groups as work manipulating events. The one that is messing with Baltar and Six, and the one that appeared to Starbuck before her "death," and "took her" to Earth and back.

It would seem one would be trying to help the colonials and one is trying to manipulate events for some end. There could be a debate about which, but it seems obvious that Starbuck will be the righteous and true and destined, and Baltar will just be a tool to a dark end. I just find it hard to believe that is not what they are going to go for. If it was the other way it would be interesting, but I doubt that is where they will go.

[Tsyroc]

I know that everyone keeps mentioning Count Iblis but is there any reason Lucifer couldn't be involved as well? If we're going to use characters from the original show to guess about what might be going on in the current show.

[Uraniun235]

I know that everyone keeps mentioning Count Iblis but is there any reason Lucifer couldn't be involved as well? If we're going to use characters from the original show to guess about what might be going on in the current show.

You just committed a Heresy.

[Tsyroc]

I know that everyone keeps mentioning Count Iblis but is there any reason Lucifer couldn't be involved as well? If we're going to use characters from the original show to guess about what might be going on in the current show.

You just committed a Heresy.

It'd be even better if Lucifer had the big light up head like the original show.

[Ford Prefect]

The nebula battle was hell of awesome. The CG detail in this episode really impressed me, particularly with the little man in the space suit walking along the broken ring in one of the exterior shots of the fleet.

The episode had some good moments, particularly Tigh's shooting of Adama, but Starbuck returns only to leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Call me crazy, but how can she believe she's been away for six hours? Did she not notice how much her hair had grown?

[RogueIce]

The episode had some good moments, particularly Tigh's shooting of Adama, but Starbuck returns only to leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth. Call me crazy, but how can she believe she's been away for six hours? Did she not notice how much her hair had grown?

It's not like she had looked into a mirror before they told her.

Or we could just chalk it up to an OOU "flub" in the documentary footage. Like how in other shows characters will wind up with totally different hairstyles between season finales and premiers, even though they're supposed to happen on the same day.

Personally, with the Cylon perspective next week, I'm hoping something will be mentioned about why they were there. Were they indeed lying in wait for the Colonials, or were they there on other business and they happened to meet and throw down?

[Thanas]

They didn't stop them. What happened is that Galactica put up a flak barrier and the raiders broke formation to avoid that flak barrier. And if Anders wasn't scanned, the fleet would be toast.

Gaeta says the Vipers stopped the thrust. Galactica used flak effectively as always but their pilots are explicitly credited with stopping the Raiders. I suppose their new-ish tactic of missile-spamming with Raptors continues to yield some very positive results.

Rewatching the episode, you are right in that they stopped the main thrust. Not knowing how huge that one is (could be anything from 100+) I don't really think we can say really that much about the Cylon performance.

[Anguirus]

^ Gaeta says it's "200+." Adama yells "Take 'em out!" Cut to VFX. Back to CIC. "The Vipers stopped the main thrust but the reserves have broken through to the fleet."

(Can you tell I've been watching this ep a bit on Sci-fi rewind?)

Did anyone else think for just a moment that Tigh himself was going to head for the hanger deck when Adama told him to order everyone who knew how to fly to get into space? It would have been totally implausible, but it would have been the height of awesome to have an old, one-eyed, washed up, alcholic, human model Cylon strap into a Viper.

I actually did! Especially because rumor has it that the elder Adama is going to jump in a Viper at some point during the season.

Had it not been for the Raider being spooked by Sam, for whatever reason, they'd have lost it. I still don't buy that Sam, Tigh and so on are the Final Five.

Not to dispute your crazy theory Valdemar (heck, I could see them somehow pulling a big fake-out on this), but then how do you explain Anders' eye glowing red?