Legal Prostitution Question

[Kitsune]

Watched a program which was in support of legalizing prostitution. Being honest, I always have been in support of making it legal because it can be controlled.

One claim was pretty extraordinary though. The girls in the legal brothels in Nevada have to get physicals once a month and checked for AIDS. The claim is that no girl has ever tested positive for HIV. Has anyone seen that same information from any other sources.

[Zixinus]

I cannot cite sources but it seems quite reasonable: if the client doesn't tell he has HIV he can get sued. If he tells, the girls can do preventative measures, like using condoms and not swallowing.

I am pretty sure that all the girls (and boys, if any) use condoms all the time and refuse to do anything without them and can even kick the costumer if they refuse to use it. In an illegal business, the girls better do what they are told to or be prepared to receive a good beating from the pimp.

So, its not a really high claim if you think about it.

[Kitsune]

Are condoms, when used properly, much less likely to break than some sources suggest?

[apocolypse]

Are condoms, when used properly, much less likely to break than some sources suggest?

Condoms, if used properly, should break very rarely. One of the main problems is that the substances some people use to lubricate (Vasoline, certain oils, etc) will greatly increase the risks of failure. IIRC some condom types are also more permeable than latex ones are.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Are condoms, when used properly, much less likely to break than some sources suggest?

In lab conditions, condoms have something like a .2-2% failure rate over a 1 year period... under field conditions that jumps to 14 due to improper use.

[Tolya]

Are condoms, when used properly, much less likely to break than some sources suggest?

In lab conditions, condoms have something like a .2-2% failure rate over a 1 year period... under field conditions that jumps to 14 due to improper use.

Can you elaborate? I was always curious how are those tests conducted. Do they put 1000 condoms on vibrators and keep them going for one year, or is this something more complex?

[Knife]

Watched a program which was in support of legalizing prostitution. Being honest, I always have been in support of making it legal because it can be controlled.

One claim was pretty extraordinary though. The girls in the legal brothels in Nevada have to get physicals once a month and checked for AIDS. The claim is that no girl has ever tested positive for HIV. Has anyone seen that same information from any other sources.

Sounds an aweful like the Bull Shit episode on prositution.

[Singular Intellect]

One of the positive things I've heard about legalized prositution (from someone who lived in a country where that was the case) is that hookers tend to look upon the police much more favorably. They aren't treated like criminals and can go to the police at any time if they're in trouble and the police will protect them like they would anyone else. The legal aspect also hinders attempts by police officers for 'free' prosititution when their activities are illegal to begin with.

[Stark]

Na uh, prostitution is bad because it takes advantage of women with pimps etc, so it HAS to be illegal... even if that is far less likely to happen if the prostitutes aren't criminals themselves. Look, Jesus!

[PainRack]

I find that unlikely, since Singapore has a long history of legalised prostitution and a policy of forced condoms and vigorous check-ups since the 90s, and we're still facing STD problems.

While HIV infection is classified, the fact that hetreosexual males visiting prostitutes is still the leading cause of HIV infection suggest that it isn't as effective, even if most of the suspected source are from other countries.

[Wicked Pilot]

Watched a program which was in support of legalizing prostitution. Being honest, I always have been in support of making it legal because it can be controlled.

One claim was pretty extraordinary though. The girls in the legal brothels in Nevada have to get physicals once a month and checked for AIDS. The claim is that no girl has ever tested positive for HIV. Has anyone seen that same information from any other sources.

If the hiv was making its rounds through the legal brothels you can be damn sure it would be made public knowledge. There are some very powerful interest groups in Nevada that would see to it.

[dragon]

Germany has had legal prostitution for a while now despite the fact that its a catholic country. And there is very little problem here with std. Matter of fact the girls pay taxes which means they get medical, retirement and all the other benefits. Plus since its a legal buisness there is almost no abuse of the girls or forced slavery.

[Jawawithagun]

Germany has had legal prostitution for a while now despite the fact that its a catholic country.

Germany is not a catholic country! It is more less a fifty-fifty split between catholics and protestants with a vast majority of people who couldn't care less about religion.

[Spin Echo]

Plus since its a legal buisness there is almost no abuse of the girls or forced slavery.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. While legalised prostituion means generally better conditions for the prostitutes from that country, it also makes the country more appealing for human traffickers. The trafficked girls usually know nothing of the country they are in nor the language. The traffickers keep them in line by using fear of the local police, threats to their family back home, drugs, and even supposed voodoo curses.

[Zixinus]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. While legalised prostituion means generally better conditions for the prostitutes from that country, it also makes the country more appealing for human traffickers. The trafficked girls usually know nothing of the country they are in nor the language. The traffickers keep them in line by using fear of the local police, threats to their family back home, drugs, and even supposed voodoo curses.

Which means regulation to counter that. I wonder how would that look like.

[Stuart]

Plus since its a legal business there is almost no abuse of the girls or forced slavery.

That would be a very rosy view of things. For a more realistic one, THIS is a more realistic view of the situation.

US State Department Report on Human Trafficking

Germany is a transit and destination country for men and women trafficked for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation and forced labor. Victims are trafficked primarily from Central and Eastern Europe (mainly Romania, Russia, and Bulgaria) as well as Africa and, to a lesser extent, Asia. A significant number of victims - almost 18 percent in 2005 - are trafficked internally. In 2005, 51 of the 642 victims identified were children trafficked to Germany for the purpose of sexual exploitation; 28 of those children were German nationals.

The Government of Germany fully complies with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking. In May 2006, Germany established a new inter-agency illegal migration analysis and strategy center, in part to coordinate law enforcement efforts against trafficking in persons. Government efforts to prevent sex trafficking during the World Cup Soccer Championship included state-federal law enforcement information sharing, increased police presence in red light districts, additional police inspections and raids, efforts to raise awareness among hotels, and enhanced cooperation with social institutions and counseling centers. The IOM concluded there was no significant increase in trafficking to Germany during the World Cup, crediting extensive prevention campaigns inside and outside of Germany and an increased police focus. Germany should consider amending its victim protection legislation to include psychological counseling and treatment. Germany should also explore ways, within the parameters of its judicial system, to increase prison sentences for convicted traffickers.

Prosecution
The German government demonstrated adequate law enforcement efforts during the reporting period. Germany prohibits all forms of trafficking; trafficking for sexual exploitation is criminalized in Section 232 of its Penal Code and forced labor is criminalized under Section 233. Other laws are also used to prosecute trafficking cases. Penalties prescribed for trafficking for both sexual exploitation and forced labor range from six months to ten years' imprisonment and are sufficiently stringent and commensurate with penalties for other grave crimes, such as rape. It is common practice for judges to suspend sentences of two years or less for all crimes, including trafficking. In 2005, the most recent year for which data is available, police concluded 317 trafficking investigations. German police launched 370 trafficking investigations in 2004. German authorities prosecuted 183 individuals for trafficking in 2005, compared to 189 prosecutions in 2004. In 2005, 136 traffickers were convicted, including nine under the juvenile justice system. In comparison, 137 adult and four juvenile traffickers were convicted in 2004. Only 42 of the 136 traffickers convicted in 2005 received prison sentences that were not suspended; in 2004, 47 of the 141 convicted traffickers' sentences were not suspended.

Protection
Germany continued to provide good victim assistance and protection over the reporting period. Approximately 25 counseling centers in Germany provided assistance and facilitated victim protection, including shelter. Police continued to effectively implement procedures for identifying victims and referred them to protective services. In 2005, authorities identified a total of 642 victims, of which 527 were from foreign countries. Foreign victims that are illegally present in Germany are granted a four-week reflection period; victims who assist law enforcement with investigations and prosecutions are eligible to stay in Germany for the duration of the trial. The government may grant permanent residence permits to those victims who face hardship or retribution upon return to their home country. Victims are not penalized for unlawful acts committed as a direct result of their being trafficked.

Prevention
Germany continued to demonstrate progress in its trafficking prevention efforts. During 2006, the government continued to fund a number of NGOs performing public awareness both in Germany and abroad. German embassies and consulates in certain source countries conducted outreach, including advocacy for strengthening laws against child sex tourism. The government funded child sex tourism identification training for Guatemalan law enforcement and migration officers. Germany also continued to co-fund an NGO that conducted domestic awareness programs on child sex tourism. Most public awareness campaigns associated with the World Cup received funding from federal, state, or local governments.

In short, the Germans are doing well and should be applauded for their efforts but there is still a problem there.

On the more general question, I believe prostitution should be legalized on severely practical grounds; it cuts the criminal element's influence down and raises tax revenue which we can then spend on worthwhile things like tanks and warships. Legalizing the industry also makes health control easier.

[Spin Echo]

In short, the Germans are doing well and should be applauded for their efforts but there is still a problem there.

I find the Norwegians stance on it frustrating. They know there is a human trafficking problem, particularly in Oslo, but they seem reluctant to deal with it for fear of pushing the trade underground.

[Ritterin Sophia]

On the more general question, I believe prostitution should be legalized on severely practical grounds; it cuts the criminal element's influence down and raises tax revenue which we can then spend on worthwhile things like tanks and warships. Legalizing the industry also makes health control easier.

Now the hippies and the warmongers can be happy! We can have our cake and eat it too! huzzah!