The Empire vs. the Zerg

[JohnM81]

Hello,

It is my intent to shed some light upon the question of what would an encounter between the galactic empire (at its height) and the Zerg would be like. Let me start off by explaining where I am coming from. First off in any discussion like this we need to establish what is canon. For Starcraft that is not an easy task. There are significant contradictions between the game, cut scenes, and novels. For the purpose of this discussion I am treating the game manual as authoritative canon and anything else like the novels as lesser canon. The lowest canon is the game itself. If this is not acceptable to you then I suggest you stop reading here.

Zerg and what they have:
I will start by listing the handicaps I am placing on the zerg. Some are backed up in the cut scenes and others are simply based off of my own preferences. First off the zerg can’t assimilate Jedi or sith. The notion of this is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that any Jedi or sith wouldn’t take their own life if they felt that they were doomed to assimilation or even if it was for the greater good that they weren’t around. Case and point, Obi-won and Vader in the first death star. Second handicap I am placing on the zerg is three larvae per hatchery. This is seen in the game and is fiercely denied by starcraft supporters. It is supported that a hatchery can spawn “hundreds” of larvae in Shadow of the Xel’Naga I want to error on the side of caution for the imperials. The other starting point is that the average generation maturation time is around a day on average for the zerg strains. Obviously this time frame is more for some (Ultralisk) and less for others (zerglings). This is also from novel Shadow of the Xel’Naga.

Empire and what they have:
I will admit I am not a starwars expert. There is a common agreement around these forums that at its height the empire has roughly 150,000 star destroyers of various classes. What my aim here is to consider if all the ships in the imperial navy were to line up and shoot all their turbo-lasers at a single target how much energy (power) output would be generated. The next problem I encountered is how many lesser cruisers the empire has. I found a lot less of an agreement on this issue. So to take in account all the lesser cruisers and fighter fire power I am going to simply double the number of star destroyers. And finally to take into account the number of super star destroyers I am going to increase the number of star destroyers by a factor of 10. So that brings the equivalent imperial might up to 3,000,000 star destroyers. The reason why I am trying to deal in the “currency” of star destroyers is because that is where Wong’s calculations exist. The next item to deal with is the death star. According to Wong, its super laser has an energy of around 2e23 GW (correct me if I am wrong). I am going to assume that every destroyer has 200 TL cannons at 100 billion GW and has a 100% accuracy rating (which we all know isn’t the case again trying to error on the side of caution for the imperials). With 3 million ships plus the death star we have a combined power output of: 2.00000060E+23 GW. It’s clear here that the death star’s fire power is by far the main contributor.

[JohnM81]

Zerg growth:
The advantage of a biological system is not technology as some may assume (stupid species 8472). Rather its population growth. If we have a ship yard that produces 1 ship a month. After 5 months it will have made 5 ships. There is a constant proportionality between the ship yard and its production. In mathematical terms this means it’s a linear relationship. However organic systems like the zerg don’t follow such a growth pattern. If I have 1 larvae through his life process (drone to hatchery to larvae) it will create 3 larvae. Those three larvae will create 3 more larvae and so on. In mathematical terms this is an exponential relationship. As time goes to infinity an organic growth pattern will far outpace a linear manufacturing process. If three larvae (alone and defenseless) land on a planet they will start out their life cycle as their instincts dictate. Now in the case of the zerg these three larvae don’t morph into drones and make three more drones. Rather two are used to make more drones and one will be used to produce combat strains or auxiliary organic structures so the hive can grow. The growth pattern of larvae will go like this 3, 6, 12, 24, 26, 48, and so on. This yields an exponential equation to model the growth pattern of:
y=3*e^(0.693t)
This is the growth pattern with time in units of days.

[JohnM81]

Zerg Fire power:
Upon reaching out with their senses the zerg will see that the occupants of this galaxy rely heavily upon space travel and with that the bulk of their fire power rests in the hands of capital ships. As any organic organism, the zerg will adapt itself to the environment. And in this galaxy I believe the zerg will rely upon scourge. According to the starcraft manual scourge ram their targets and explode into a ball of plasma. So here are my calculations for determining the power output of whatever chemical reaction that is taking place in their little bodies that yields enough energy to turn them into a ball of plasma.

Assumptions:
1. Scourge like most living beings are mostly water and so their physical properties will be roughly close to water. Being we know scourge actually have very dense hides to survive space this is again a conservative estimation that errors on the side of the imperials winning.
2. Assume a rough volume of 9 cubic meters
3. Assume that only 30% of the scourges body turns into plasma and the other 70% is just blown up on impact.
4. Assume that upon impact the reaction takes 1 second
density (kg/m^3) – 1000
volume (m^3) – 9
mass (kg) - 9000
c liq (J/Kg K) – 4181
dT (K) – 310 to 373 to 500
Latent heat (J/Kg) - 2260000
c vap (J/kg K) – 1840
time of reaction – 1 second

The energy required to do this is described by Q = mcdT +mL +mcdT
Assuming that only around 30% of the scourge’s mass is turned into plasma we can find the energy output of that whatever reaction is taking place in its body.

Q = 7444124100 joules
Power = 7.44 GW

Now I’m most of you are thinking 7.44 GW? that’s nothing compared to a single TL bolt that’s in the range of 100,000,000 GWs.

Now it’s important to understand, the zerg are not used to dealing with foes as advanced as the empire. And anyone who is honest has to admit that the zerg abilities don’t match up with the empires tech as well as they would with dominion or protoss. However, don’t write the zerg off yet.

The Zerg’s strength was never its ability to make a strain that in itself was powerful. Their strength is in their numbers. As seen in lesser canons and albeit taken with a grain of salt a single scourge’s damage is approximately five times the energy levels needed to kill it. With that I hypothesize that a scourge can withstand 1.48 GW to deliver a lethal blow. To put this into perspective, according to Wong’s calculations a single X-wing can put out enough punch to kill roughly 400 scourge in a single cannon blast!

What hope can there be for the zerg when facing such an enemy?

And yet there is hope.


Knowing a mathematical model to describe zerg population expansion we can see that within a short period of time the zerg can become so populous that they can become a threat to the empire. After building a spreadsheet I found that after 76 days (approximately 76 generations) the zerg will have a population of a resounding 2.32e23 organisms! Now assuming that these strains are as delicate as the scourge (which is not the case but again trying to error on the side of the empire) it would take…

2.32e23 x 1.488 GW = 3.45e23 GW

…to kill all the accumulated zerg biomass. And as was calculated before that power output doesn’t exist at this point. The problem at this point for the empire is that with the zerg growth rate having a huge population means that the next generation will be even more…HUGE. If the zerg have the ability to grow to such a population before action is taken by the empire there just simply won’t be enough fire power in the empire’s navy to eradicate the zerg infestation. And as the zerg continue to grow slowly but surely they will expand. What we are seeing here is the zerg are weak compared to the empire until they reach a “critical mass” and after which point sheer numbers will lead them to victory. Not by damaging their enemy to death but by being so populous that they can eat away at you while you don’t have the energy output to kill all of them.

If the empire finds out about the Zerg before they reach this critical mass then they will be easily eradicated. But if left unchecked they will form a swarm so great it will be unstoppable.

[JohnM81]

Counter points:

Question: But the death star can destroy many zerg with the zerg not being able to kill it. How can the zerg win?

Answer: If the zerg attempt to build its hatcheries on planets its foolish. The zerg can thrive on asteroids and so this is where they should build their nests. This makes using the death start impractical. If the zerg attack a planet and then the death star destroys a planet as its response it just created more habitat for the zerg.


Question: Ok so the empire can’t kill zerg faster than they are being born but the zerg scourge can’t scratch an ISD’s hull so do we have a stalemate?

Answer: Not really. Consider that the after 76 days we have enough scourge that if they all attack an ISD they could exert 1.73e24 GWs of power on the vessel. That’s enough to destroy a planet! Now, obviously not all are going to ram a single ISD and not all will hit at the exact time, but the point is simply to say that with enough scourge even an ISD will be destroyed. So what we have here is a circumstance where the imperials can’t destroy the zerg fast enough, the zerg are reproducing at a rate that dwarfs any linear manufacturing process, and the zerg are able to take down capital ships (or knock down their shields and infest them).


Question: But how will the zerg travel the distances that hyperspace allows?

Answer: According to cut scenes we do know that the zerg can open up worm holes for travel. With that said it’s really a moot point. Its more advantageous for the zerg to move slowly so they can reap the benefit of an exponential growth pattern. Consider what the zerg population would be after a four years… I couldn’t even tell you my excel spreadsheet craps out a #NUM! error if I try to calculate it.

[Thanas]

First, this is the wrong forum.

Second, you can't really base a versus discussion by comparing "complete firepower levels".

Third, the empire vs the zerg is a no contest scenario. The empire would curbstomp the zerg since the latter have no shields whatsoever and have never demonstrated even gigaton level firepower.

[Thanas]

Counter points:

Question: But the death star can destroy many zerg with the zerg not being able to kill it. How can the zerg win?

Answer: If the zerg attempt to build its hatcheries on planets its foolish. The zerg can thrive on asteroids and so this is where they should build their nests. This makes using the death start impractical. If the zerg attack a planet and then the death star destroys a planet as its response it just created more habitat for the zerg.

Are you fucking stupid? The Zerg are pretty well unable to survive the shattering of a planet. Heck, if their most valuable structure couldn't survive a carrier slamming into it...

Question: Ok so the empire can’t kill zerg faster than they are being born

The empire can kill zerg way faster than they are being born. All it would require is five seconds.

Like:
"target area xyz. Fire main battery."
"Target eliminated".

but the zerg scourge can’t scratch an ISD’s hull so do we have a stalemate?

No, because the empire can blow out any scourge attack whatsoever.

Answer: Not really. Consider that the after 76 days we have enough scourge that if they all attack an ISD they could exert 1.73e24 GWs of power on the vessel. That’s enough to destroy a planet!

Without even bothering you number, the idea that the zerg are somewhat able to get a drop on an ISD who just conveniently powers down his engines and weapons is laughable.

Prove that the Zerg have stealth capabilities equal to the Rebellion. Proof that the Zerg have the resources to built an army of scourges in secret.

Now, obviously not all are going to ram a single ISD and not all will hit at the exact time, but the point is simply to say that with enough scourge even an ISD will be destroyed.

No, you idiot. Because even if you somehow bring down its shields - which you cant - and avoid the flak barrier - which you can't - the ISD will simply jump away and return fire from a longer range.

So what we have here is a circumstance where the imperials can’t destroy the zerg fast enough, the zerg are reproducing at a rate that dwarfs any linear manufacturing process, and the zerg are able to take down capital ships (or knock down their shields and infest them).

WTF? Explain to me how the resource - hungry and cash-strapped zerg are able to reporduce at such magical rates. Hint: They can't, because otherwise the Protoss and Terrans would already be toast.

Question: But how will the zerg travel the distances that hyperspace allows?

Answer: According to cut scenes we do know that the zerg can open up worm holes for travel. With that said it’s really a moot point. Its more advantageous for the zerg to move slowly so they can reap the benefit of an exponential growth pattern. Consider what the zerg population would be after a four years… I couldn’t even tell you my excel spreadsheet craps out a #NUM! error if I try to calculate it.

Wank! Wank! Wank!.

This is complete and utter bullshit. (Because attacking in slow motion against someone with long range weapons is such a smart idea, idiot).

Fuck, the empire built a DS in two years. In secret. With a throwaway portion of the Budget. That exceeds any feat the zerg have ever done.

What are you, a troll or just a looser with no intelligence whatsoever?

[Thanas]

Zerg growth:
The advantage of a biological system is not technology as some may assume (stupid species 8472). Rather its population growth. If we have a ship yard that produces 1 ship a month. After 5 months it will have made 5 ships. There is a constant proportionality between the ship yard and its production. In mathematical terms this means it’s a linear relationship. However organic systems like the zerg don’t follow such a growth pattern. If I have 1 larvae through his life process (drone to hatchery to larvae) it will create 3 larvae. Those three larvae will create 3 more larvae and so on. In mathematical terms this is an exponential relationship. As time goes to infinity an organic growth pattern will far outpace a linear manufacturing process. If three larvae (alone and defenseless) land on a planet they will start out their life cycle as their instincts dictate. Now in the case of the zerg these three larvae don’t morph into drones and make three more drones. Rather two are used to make more drones and one will be used to produce combat strains or auxiliary organic structures so the hive can grow. The growth pattern of larvae will go like this 3, 6, 12, 24, 26, 48, and so on. This yields an exponential equation to model the growth pattern of:
y=3*e^(0.693t)
This is the growth pattern with time in units of days.

Bull fucking shit. You somehow assume there are magical amounts of resources. Besides, no animal reproduces exponentially.

Zerg Fire power:
Upon reaching out with their senses the zerg will see that the occupants of this galaxy rely heavily upon space travel and with that the bulk of their fire power rests in the hands of capital ships. As any organic organism, the zerg will adapt itself to the environment.

Oh yes. The Zerg will rteach out with their "senses"... care to proof how they are capable of that fact? And your magical adaptation process is just giant bullshit. There is no intantaneous adaption.

And in this galaxy I believe the zerg will rely upon scourge.

Oh yes, because using sublight kamikazes smaller than a torpedo is such a good idea in the Star Wars galaxy. Did you even watch starwars?

According to the starcraft manual scourge ram their targets and explode into a ball of plasma. So here are my calculations for determining the power output of whatever chemical reaction that is taking place in their little bodies that yields enough energy to turn them into a ball of plasma.

Hint: Plasma is just a fancy way of saying "cool scifi term of the week." Go to Mr. Wong site. He explains in detail why Plasma weapons are stupid.

Assumptions:
1. Scourge like most living beings are mostly water and so their physical properties will be roughly close to water. Being we know scourge actually have very dense hides to survive space this is again a conservative estimation that errors on the side of the imperials winning.
2. Assume a rough volume of 9 cubic meters
3. Assume that only 30% of the scourges body turns into plasma and the other 70% is just blown up on impact.
4. Assume that upon impact the reaction takes 1 second
density (kg/m^3) – 1000
volume (m^3) – 9
mass (kg) - 9000
c liq (J/Kg K) – 4181
dT (K) – 310 to 373 to 500
Latent heat (J/Kg) - 2260000
c vap (J/kg K) – 1840
time of reaction – 1 second

Your proof for those assumptions being true is where exactly?

Hey guys. I just assumed that the bismarck's guns had a firepower of 10.000 TNT. I ROX.

Now it’s important to understand, the zerg are not used to dealing with foes as advanced as the empire. And anyone who is honest has to admit that the zerg abilities don’t match up with the empires tech as well as they would with dominion or protoss. However, don’t write the zerg off yet.

Why not? They cannot even take down a single Imperial patrol craft. All they are good for is target practice for rookie TIE pilots.

The Zerg’s strength was never its ability to make a strain that in itself was powerful. Their strength is in their numbers. As seen in lesser canons and albeit taken with a grain of salt a single scourge’s damage is approximately five times the energy levels needed to kill it. With that I hypothesize that a scourge can withstand 1.48 GW to deliver a lethal blow. To put this into perspective, according to Wong’s calculations a single X-wing can put out enough punch to kill roughly 400 scourge in a single cannon blast!

Also note that the empire has far superior numbers and production capability.

What hope can there be for the zerg when facing such an enemy?

None. But wait, I see a quasi rhetorical answer coming....

And yet there is hope.

Bullshit.

Knowing a mathematical model to describe zerg population expansion we can see that within a short period of time the zerg can become so populous that they can become a threat to the empire. After building a spreadsheet I found that after 76 days (approximately 76 generations) the zerg will have a population of a resounding 2.32e23 organisms! Now assuming that these strains are as delicate as the scourge (which is not the case but again trying to error on the side of the empire) it would take…

You are fucking stupid. If the zerg are capable of such feats, why were they defeated by the Protoss and the Terrans on numerous occasions?

2.32e23 x 1.488 GW = 3.45e23 GW

…to kill all the accumulated zerg biomass. And as was calculated before that power output doesn’t exist at this point. The problem at this point for the empire is that with the zerg growth rate having a huge population means that the next generation will be even more…HUGE. If the zerg have the ability to grow to such a population before action is taken by the empire there just simply won’t be enough fire power in the empire’s navy to eradicate the zerg infestation. And as the zerg continue to grow slowly but surely they will expand. What we are seeing here is the zerg are weak compared to the empire until they reach a “critical mass” and after which point sheer numbers will lead them to victory. Not by damaging their enemy to death but by being so populous that they can eat away at you while you don’t have the energy output to kill all of them.

If the empire finds out about the Zerg before they reach this critical mass then they will be easily eradicated. But if left unchecked they will form a swarm so great it will be unstoppable.

THis is fucking stupid. I won't even bother responding to this gem.

See above: Why do the zerg suffer massive defeats at the hands of the terrans or protoss if they are capable of such feats?

[NecronLord]

Can't be bothered reading through. Just moving the thread.

From a quick skim, I'm guessing he's ignoring the Starcraft Manual numbers, though.

[Thanas]

Can't be bothered reading through. Just moving the thread.

From a quick skim, I'm guessing he's ignoring the Starcraft Manual numbers, though.

Not only that, he also believes that the Zerg are able of multiplying indefinitely in record time without needing any resources whatsoever. And that is just the start. His arguments make even less sense after that.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Fuck, the empire built a DS in two years. In secret. With a throwaway portion of the Budget. That exceeds any feat the zerg have ever done.

If you're talking about the DS from RotS that was just the prototype with the main reactor, gun, and the basic frame. If you're talking about the DS II, that was 60% complete in six months time, and substantially more massive than the prototype or the first one.

[Thanas]

Fuck, the empire built a DS in two years. In secret. With a throwaway portion of the Budget. That exceeds any feat the zerg have ever done.

If you're talking about the DS from RotS that was just the prototype with the main reactor, gun, and the basic frame. If you're talking about the DS II, that was 60% complete in six months time, and substantially more massive than the prototype or the first one.

This link says otherwise, speaking of two to four years.

Source, please.

[Ghost Rider]

Fuck, the empire built a DS in two years. In secret. With a throwaway portion of the Budget. That exceeds any feat the zerg have ever done.

If you're talking about the DS from RotS that was just the prototype with the main reactor, gun, and the basic frame. If you're talking about the DS II, that was 60% complete in six months time, and substantially more massive than the prototype or the first one.

This link says otherwise, speaking of two to four years.

Source, please.

Schatten is getting this from Shadows of the Empire wherein Xizor was ordered to begin materials to be sent to a location of where the DSII would be constructed and the six month span indicated that it was before RoTJ.

As for the yaboo up here. I enjoy he literally throws out his assumptions on the size of things and expects us to accept them as fact.

Let's see if he can come up with a fucking objective source first.

[Thanas]

If you're talking about the DS from RotS that was just the prototype with the main reactor, gun, and the basic frame. If you're talking about the DS II, that was 60% complete in six months time, and substantially more massive than the prototype or the first one.

This link says otherwise, speaking of two to four years.

Source, please.

Schatten is getting this from Shadows of the Empire wherein Xizor was ordered to begin materials to be sent to a location of where the DSII would be constructed and the six month span indicated that it was before RoTJ.

Does the source explicitly state that construction would start only after Xixor delivered the materials? Because it might just well be that Xixor was only used as extra hands. In fact, seeing as how Palpatine apparently wanted Xixor to leak the information to the rebel alliance, it is questionable his involvement was even necessary in the first place.

As for the yaboo up here. I enjoy he literally throws out his assumptions on the size of things and expects us to accept them as fact.

Let's see if he can come up with a fucking objective source first.

Since he can't even read the starcraft game manual, which explicitly states that Zerg evolution spanned millenia and he somehow got "the zerg will adapt to the GE immediately" (which vaguely reminds me of Borg wankers - I mean, "adapt to the GE"?) from that I wonder if he would be even able to understand the strange symbols on that unknown substance called paper.

[Academia Nut]

Considering that it states that Xizor and his smuggling company was the sole supply of raw materials for the DS II, yeah, it apparently took 6 months to complete 60% of the station using a highly limited method of getting resources to them. The station's growth curve was probably logistic in nature, slow in the beginning as most resources go towards building more construction droids, then rapidly accelerating as enough droids are present to work on the station and build more droids, before it would be projected to level off as the bulk work is finished and the biggest builders shut down and are converted back into construction materials and skilled technicians come in to finish up the detailed work. So the majority of the work was probably done in less than 6 months.

Of course, if you count all the design and prep work then the DS II would have easily taken the full two to four years to build. It is just that the actual construction phase took six months to do 60% while being done in secrecy.

[JohnM81]

"Are you fucking stupid? The Zerg are pretty well unable to survive the shattering of a planet. Heck, if their most valuable structure couldn't survive a carrier slamming into it... "

I never said the zerg can survive a planet being blown up. All I said the ensuing asteroids would be for a good home for the zerg.


"Without even bothering you number, the idea that the zerg are somewhat able to get a drop on an ISD who just conveniently powers down his engines and weapons is laughable.

Prove that the Zerg have stealth capabilities equal to the Rebellion. Proof that the Zerg have the resources to built an army of scourges in secret."

I never said the zerg have stealth capabilities at all. Nor did I ever say they can build in secret. In fact I made the point that its critical that the empire destroy them before they reach a reproduction rate based off of an exponential growth rate curve that makes them a significant threat. Try actually reading my posts ok?


"WTF? Explain to me how the resource - hungry and cash-strapped zerg are able to reporduce at such magical rates. Hint: They can't, because otherwise the Protoss and Terrans would already be toast."

Explain it? Sure same way that star wars can "magically" travel through space.....its from their canon.


"Bull fucking shit. You somehow assume there are magical amounts of resources. Besides, no animal reproduces exponentially."

You reveal your ignorance on this subject. Yes life does reproduce on an exponential scale. And in saying that I am assuming you even know what exponential means....


"Oh yes. The Zerg will rteach out with their "senses"... care to proof how they are capable of that fact? And your magical adaptation process is just giant bullshit. There is no intantaneous adaption."

Put down the crack, change your wet drawers, and take a deep breath my friend. Zerg do have abilities like I said and it is supported in the manuel. And by adaption all I meant was intellegent adaptation on a strategic level. As in using their anti-cruiser breeds for a galaxy that uses ....ya know.... cruisers.


"Hint: Plasma is just a fancy way of saying "cool scifi term of the week." Go to Mr. Wong site. He explains in detail why Plasma weapons are stupid."

Irrelevent, when I used the term plasma I actually mean the state of matter where it is excited (ionized) gas.


"Assumptions:
1. Scourge like most living beings are mostly water and so their physical properties will be roughly close to water. Being we know scourge actually have very dense hides to survive space this is again a conservative estimation that errors on the side of the imperials winning.
2. Assume a rough volume of 9 cubic meters
3. Assume that only 30% of the scourges body turns into plasma and the other 70% is just blown up on impact.
4. Assume that upon impact the reaction takes 1 second

Your proof for those assumptions being true is where exactly? "


Those assumptions were additional handicaps placed on the zerg to favor the empire my friend. #1 is a logical assumption being organisms are mostly water. #2 Is an approximated size from http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bqyKZYCN_pQ time index 1:34. #3 was another assumption I made to favor the imperials and greatly weaken the energy needed to bring a scourge's mass to a state of plasma. #4 is also taken from http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bqyKZYCN_pQ time index 1:34.


"Also note that the empire has far superior numbers and production capability."

The empire indeed does have superior numbers and production capability as you say. But only for a period of time. As with any linear to exponential relationship its only a matter of time before the latter over takes the former. It is before this time that the zerg are easily killed and when the empire must strike.


"You are fucking stupid. If the zerg are capable of such feats, why were they defeated by the Protoss and the Terrans on numerous occasions? "

Same reason the pathetic rebellion overthrew the empire.... Character shields. And frankly, if you are so convinced of my mistakes I have provided all my data so point out my mistakes if...you...can....


"I won't even bother responding to this gem."

Won't or can't?

[JohnM81]

As for the yaboo up here. I enjoy he literally throws out his assumptions on the size of things and expects us to accept them as fact.

Let's see if he can come up with a fucking objective source first.

According to http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bqyKZYCN_pQ time index 1:34 we can see the scourge are actually larger than I am assuming. Making them smaller was me trying to error on the side of the empire.

[JohnM81]

Since he can't even read the starcraft game manual, which explicitly states that Zerg evolution spanned millenia and he somehow got "the zerg will adapt to the GE immediately" (which vaguely reminds me of Borg wankers - I mean, "adapt to the GE"?) from that I wonder if he would be even able to understand the strange symbols on that unknown substance called paper.

I never said the zerg would adapt their physiology to be able to fight the empire. I am not really surprised. With the sputtering of "bullshit", "fucking idiot" and other mindless remarks its a amazing you were able to read any of my post.

Rather I was just simply talking about their strategy being adapted.

[Thanas]

First, learn to use quote tags.

I never said the zerg can survive a planet being blown up. All I said the ensuing asteroids would be for a good home for the zerg.

Backpeddling much? Why would the empire blow up a planet in the first place if there was no threat? To provide the Zerg with homes?

I never said the zerg have stealth capabilities at all. Nor did I ever say they can build in secret. In fact I made the point that its critical that the empire destroy them before they reach a reproduction rate based off of an exponential growth rate curve that makes them a significant threat. Try actually reading my posts ok?

Ah, so you are arguing that the Zerg somehow magically manage to drop under the empires radar and then build up giant kamikaze swarms (actually trillions of scourges would be needed to even make a sector fleet blink by your very calculations - not that it would do the zerg any good) without the empire noticing, and then destroy the empire in one giant zerg rush? How stupid is that?

Besides, even assuming your point was correct, what reasons are there for the empire not finding the zerg and just swatting them like the bugs they are?

It takes the empire less than 24 hours to completely render a planet uninhabitable. In order for your scenario to work, the zerg would have to be able to have growth rates that can match that. They do not.

Explain it? Sure same way that star wars can "magically" travel through space.....its from their canon.

SOURCE. DIRECT QUOTE.

And no, dipshit, hyperspace travel does not allow them to magically gather resources.

You reveal your ignorance on this subject. Yes life does reproduce on an exponential scale. And in saying that I am assuming you even know what exponential means....

Give me an example of a sentient animal that does reproduce exponentially. Cells and bacteria may reproduce exponentially in ideal conditions. Animals do not.

Did you fail Biology 101?

Put down the crack, change your wet drawers, and take a deep breath my friend. Zerg do have abilities like I said and it is supported in the manuel. And by adaption all I meant was intellegent adaptation on a strategic level. As in using their anti-cruiser breeds for a galaxy that uses ....ya know.... cruisers.

Screw putting down the crack, I need it to make sense of your posts. And I am not your friend because last time I checked, I was a homo sapiens. I do not consort with neanderthals. POST THE FUCKING SOURCE FOR THE ABILITIES OF THE ZERG YOU CLAIM THEY HAVE.

Explain to me what you mean by "reaching out", you idiot.

And prove how the "anit cruiser breeds" (WTF? Do you mean mutalisks) are effective against ISDs. And prove how ISD ships and terran cruisers are even comparable.

Those assumptions were additional handicaps placed on the zerg to favor the empire my friend.

Translation: I just pulled them out of my ass. Moving on.

The empire indeed does have superior numbers and production capability as you say. But only for a period of time. As with any linear to exponential relationship its only a matter of time before the latter over takes the former. It is before this time that the zerg are easily killed and when the empire must strike.

Here you go again with this bullshit....

Same reason the pathetic rebellion overthrew the empire.... Character shields. And frankly, if you are so convinced of my mistakes I have provided all my data so point out my mistakes if...you...can....

POST THE FUCKING DATA. So far you have posted jack shit.

And character shields do not cut it. Or are you saying every single protoss grunt has a character shield? Nor did the marines etc....

"I won't even bother responding to this gem."

Won't or can't?

Won't because any satient being would know it is bullshit.

[Darth Ruinus]

JohnM81, try to get the quoting function down, it will make your posts easier to read when you quote people.

Also, I am no numbers expert by far, but the Acclamator ships from the Clone Wars era had 200 gigaton cannons. I am pretty sure that means that one Acclamator has way more firepower than any Terran or Protoss or even Zerg fleet has ever demonstrated. So basically, the Zerg cant touch the GE.

And if it tried to, it would probably end up being a minor annoyance. And I mean a minor annoyance.

[Thanas]

As for the yaboo up here. I enjoy he literally throws out his assumptions on the size of things and expects us to accept them as fact.

Let's see if he can come up with a fucking objective source first.

According to http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bqyKZYCN_pQ time index 1:34 we can see the scourge are actually larger than I am assuming. Making them smaller was me trying to error on the side of the empire.

Trying to "error" indeed...

I never said the zerg would adapt their physiology to be able to fight the empire. I am not really surprised. With the sputtering of "bullshit", "fucking idiot" and other mindless remarks its a amazing you were able to read any of my post.

Trust me, it is amazing what the human brain is capable of. Of course that requires you to use one instead of having it just fill space. Kind of like that gray, squishy thing in between your ears.

Rather I was just simply talking about their strategy being adapted.

Oh really?

As any organic organism, the zerg will adapt itself to the environment.

You are using clearly biological terms and want me to believe that you were talking about strategy? Yeah, right.

HINT: Even if the Zerg adapt their strategy...what good would it do them, seeing as they are vastly outnumbered.

[Darth Ruinus]

HINT: Even if the Zerg adapt their strategy...what good would it do them, seeing as they are vastly outnumbered.

And outgunned/shielded/maneuvered.

[Thanas]

That too, but I already told him that.....five times now.

[Vendetta]

Glassing planets worked for the Protoss, it will work for the Empire, except the Empire is significantly better at it.

Give me an example of a sentient animal that does reproduce exponentially. Cells and bacteria may reproduce exponentially in ideal conditions. Animals do not.

The Zerg themselves are tiny parasites. The larger body forms are not naturally reproduced, they're "built" as hosts for the parasites based on useful template creatures the Zerg have previously encountered. It's easier to think of them in terms of materiel construction, not reproduction. Still not fast enough, of course, but not as slow as a reproductive cycle for anything of their size.

[Napoleon the Clown]

The Empire can blow up an entire planet rather easily, and has shown zero qualms with doing so. Hell, they have thousands of ships that can destroy the surface of a planet completely in a matter of hours (See: Base Delta Zero). The Empire is spread across most of a galaxy, with enough of a presence to crush almost any resistance.

The Zerg can't. The Zerg don't. The Zerg cover a mere portion of the Milky Way. The Empire wins in size, raw power, speed, durability, manufacturing capabilities, and a more brutally efficient MO.

Storm troopers have better armor and more powerful weapons than Terran Marines. Terran Marines will defeat zerglings mano a mano. There are far more storm troopers than Marines.


Of course, ground efforts are less of an issue, as the Zerg are very vulnerable to orbital bombardment, which the Empire, as mentioned, is quite good at.


At most, a few transport ships get blown up and a few planets need to be evacuated and glassed. Impirial scanning will pick up any signs of infestation before a person gets on the transport, and that's assuming the Empire really cares enough about the inhabitants of that planet to get them the hell out of there.


So the Empire by a long shot.

[Thanas]

Glassing planets worked for the Protoss, it will work for the Empire, except the Empire is significantly better at it.

Give me an example of a sentient animal that does reproduce exponentially. Cells and bacteria may reproduce exponentially in ideal conditions. Animals do not.

The Zerg themselves are tiny parasites. The larger body forms are not naturally reproduced, they're "built" as hosts for the parasites based on useful template creatures the Zerg have previously encountered. It's easier to think of them in terms of materiel construction, not reproduction. Still not fast enough, of course, but not as slow as a reproductive cycle for anything of their size.

How exactly is the larva --> animal stage different than say....the reproduction of butterflies, who do not reproduce exponentially? I mean the general principles of the Zerg reproduction are the same. Larvae spin a cocoon, get fed with lots of shit and voila, there they are.

The only difference is that the Zerg get a lot more options than the standard butterfly.