"Rampage" in Sydney high school

[Gandalf]

FIVE youths armed with baseball bats and a machete may have been seeking revenge when they allegedly attacked a high school and its students today, police say.

A teacher was hit over the head as he tried to stop five teenagers during their rampage through Merrylands High School at 8.50am (AEST) today, police said.

The teacher was taken to hospital and 18 students were injured during the teenagers' rampage, which also left windows smashed.

When asked if the attack was possible retribution, Detective Inspector Jim Stewart said: "Possibly.

"The information to us is they were coming here ... seeking someone," he said on Macquarie radio.

But Det-Insp Stewart said police had not established the exact motive for the attack.

"We're a bit confounded as to the reasons why," he said on Fairfax radio.

A male teacher was taken to hospital with bruising to the back of his head while trying to restrain one of the youths, the Ambulance Service of NSW said.

The attack left 18 students injured, most with cuts and abrasions from broken glass, although one girl was taken to hospital with a swollen cheek after allegedly being assaulted by one of the teenagers.

Police said five youths, all aged between 14 and 16, allegedly entered the school via the main gate on Sherwood Road and stormed an assembly in an outdoor quadrangle.

The intruders allegedly approached the assembly while brandishing baseball bats and a machete, prompting teachers to lock down the school.

Students were locked inside their classrooms for safety, police said.

The boys allegedly ran through the corridors of two school buildings smashing every window they could find, showering students with glass.

When police confronted the youths, they dropped their weapons and did not resist arrest.

They were today being questioned at Merrylands police station and are likely to face charges of assault, affray and malicious damage.

Det-Insp Stewart said he was stunned by the brazenness of the incident.

"It beggars belief they would attempt this kind of activity against innocent students at the end," he said.

By 11am (AEST), parents were outside the school, hoping for news of their children locked inside.

One man, Darren, whose 13-year-old son attends the school, said he had seen the boys enter the school but did not realise what they were about to do.

He said he was given little information about his son's welfare.

"My heart's still pumping, I was really worried," he said.

Many others argued with police and school officials about the lack of information.

The father of a Year 7 student said he was furious about hearing about the incident second-hand through the media.

"A little bit of information would go a long way," he said.

By lunchtime, small groups of students were leaving the school with their parents, but the process was slow as students' families lined up outside the school to give their details to police before being allowed to enter.

The NSW Department of Education apologised for the delays but said it was justified, as parents' credentials had to be verified.

Thankfully there were no deaths,

[Havok]

[sarcasm]I am proud that the US is still the number one culture to emulate around the world.[/sarcasm]

It's good that no one was killed.

[Flagg]

[sarcasm]I am proud that the US is still the number one culture to emulate around the world.[/sarcasm]

It's good that no one was killed.

You kidding me? If they had been emulating the US there would've been a fucking massacre like hasn't been seen in a long. 5 guys attacking a school with semiautomatic weapons? Shit.

[Havok]

Thankfully it isn't as easy to get weapons like that as it is here. Hell, I had two customers ask me if I needed any this week as a "thankyou" for helping them out with their parts and bikes. Funny, but ridiculous.

[tim31]

Semiautomatics were banned in Australia after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996. Firearms that are still legal are hard to procure.

[loomer]

Yeah. Making it all kinds of hell for me to try and get a .38 pistol for range practice.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

[sarcasm]I am proud that the US is still the number one culture to emulate around the world.[/sarcasm]

It's good that no one was killed.

You kidding me? If they had been emulating the US there would've been a fucking massacre like hasn't been seen in a long. 5 guys attacking a school with semiautomatic weapons? Shit.

Semi-automatic? Dude since the assault weapons ban hasn't been renewed you'd probably see full auto. Heck I saw a fellow an M60 in a gun store near me.

[Edi]

[sarcasm]I am proud that the US is still the number one culture to emulate around the world.[/sarcasm]

It's good that no one was killed.

You kidding me? If they had been emulating the US there would've been a fucking massacre like hasn't been seen in a long. 5 guys attacking a school with semiautomatic weapons? Shit.

Semi-automatic? Dude since the assault weapons ban hasn't been renewed you'd probably see full auto. Heck I saw a fellow an M60 in a gun store near me.

You're a goddamn moron. The AWB does not regulate automatic weapons, it only regulates weapons that look like automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been banned in the US since 1934 without a lot of bureaucracy and the 1986 legislation made it even more diffcult.

[Sea Skimmer]

You're a goddamn moron. The AWB does not regulate automatic weapons, it only regulates weapons that look like automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been banned in the US since 1934 without a lot of bureaucracy and the 1986 legislation made it even more diffcult.

And to round it off the AWB regulations do almost nothing to regulate those weapons in any manner which reduce killing power, except for the limitation to 10 round magazines, which is still pretty pointless given how easily a criminal or insane shooter could go buy and use illegal magazines for his weapon. I suppose the so very logical bayonet lug ban also makes them ever so slightly less deadly too.

[Darth Wong]

Are automatic weapons actually banned in the US, or merely very expensive? I was allowed to rent and fire off a lot of rounds from a fully automatic Minimi a few years ago in Las Vegas, so there has to be some provision of the law that they're taking advantage of.

[gizmojumpjet]

Are automatic weapons actually banned in the US, or merely very expensive? I was allowed to rent and fire off a lot of rounds from a fully automatic Minimi a few years ago in Las Vegas, so there has to be some provision of the law that they're taking advantage of.

They are legal, there's just assloads of paperwork involved in transferring them and you have to get your local sheriff to sign off on it, which some won't do. There's also a 200 dollar tax you have to pay. Also, because the importation of them has been cut off since 1986, market forces have driven their prices extremely high. A fellow I know from another forum let me shoot his Uzi and his MP5 once. If I recall correctly, the Uzi was worth somewhere from 4-6 thousand dollars, for a gun made cheaply from stamped metal.

[Edi]

From what I've gathered from my discussions with Glocksman, private ownership is severely regulated, to the point of being effectively banned, with the 1934 and 1986 laws. You can still own them privately, but they cost so much only rich people can afford them. The cost was somewhere a lot just for the paperwork and checks and a lot more for the weapon itself and the supply is artificially constricted by the 1986 legislation. I'll leave the details to Glocksman, he knows them forward, backward, sideways and mirror-scripted.

Since private ownership is allowed provided you fulfill all the requirements, it is not a very difficult proposition for a business to get hold of automatic weapons for that kind of commercial purpose. Especially since the weapons are always going to be supervised when in use and used only in a specific venue in specific conditions.

[TheFeniX]

Here's the way I've always looked at it: Fully-automatic weapons are illegal in the US, with a few exceptions. This is in no way related to the Assault Weapons Ban (AWB). That literally banned "Scary looking guns" that have more in common with hunting rifles than their fully-automatic counterparts.

From what I've read, it seems the ATF (or whoever) "grand-fathered" in any weapons made in 1986 or before. Essentially, they didn't want to make thousands of citizens criminals overnight and I don't think they wanted to worry about confiscating the weapons. Were they even registered back then?

Full-auto weapons are expensive because every year more and more are destroyed (either through confiscation or being non-transferable after an owner dies/etc) with no new ones being available to the public. So, the pool of legal weapons grows smaller, inflating the values. A legal Mac-10 (possibly the cheapest NFA weapon you can get) will run around $3500 as of two years ago. I haven't check since then. An MP5 would run around $8000 with Thompson's going for $15,000+ depending on condition. This doesn't include any FFL charges or stamps. This is just for the weapon itself.

Anyways, I always figured this was the way the American Government would handle other forms of firearm confiscation. Just make them illegal with any weapons already owned grand-fathered in. It's cheaper both in money and political fall-out to handle it this way. Give it 30 years and a legal pistol would just be too expensive and problematic for the average citizen to consider purchasing, effectively making them illegal in practice if not in theory.

Are automatic weapons actually banned in the US, or merely very expensive? I was allowed to rent and fire off a lot of rounds from a fully automatic Minimi a few years ago in Las Vegas, so there has to be some provision of the law that they're taking advantage of.

The owner is most likely law-enforcement. The law doesn't say you can't shoot one (I doubt you were able to leave the range with it), you just can't own one unless you met specific criteria.

[Glocksman]

Edi is essentially correct.

Barring any state law that prohibits possession of full autos, civilians can legally possess fully automatic weapons that were added to the NFA (National Firearms Act of 1934) registry prior to May of 1986.

Any weapons added to the registry after that date are not allowed to be transfered to civilians.

The transfer of pre May-86 weapons involves a lot of ATF paperwork, getting your local chief LEO (police chief, county Sheriff, and so on) to sign off on said paperwork, waiting several months for processing, and paying a $200 transfer tax.

Once you own the weapon, IIRC you have to apply for ATF permission if you want to temporarily take it out of your state of residence.

The limited supply of pre-1986 weapons has driven prices into the stratosphere.
For example, a MAC-10 that retailed in 1985 for a few hundred now fetches over $5000, plus the $200 tax.

Back in 1994, I had a Kentucky State Police officer offer to (legally) sell me his .380 MAC-11 for $500.
I feel like a fool for turning it down, as I could get close to 10 times that amount out of it now.

Legally owning a full auto in the US is a rich man's hobby.


As others have stated, the AWB banned semi automatic look-alikes of full auto weapons.
It also banned magazines that held over 10 rounds.

As far as Mike renting a FN Minimi that's post 1986 goes, there are a few loopholes in the law, such as a Class III dealer buying one to use as a 'dealer sample' demo model and then using it as a 'rental' gun at a range after he's demo'd the gun to the police.

Though personally I wouldn't want to live in an area where the local cops honestly thought they needed belt fed machineguns.

[Stark]

They dropped their weapons and didn't resist arrest? Where's the inevitable suicide ending to school attacks?

[Glocksman]

They dropped their weapons and didn't resist arrest? Where's the inevitable suicide ending to school attacks?

Can't your 'bogans' do anything right?

[Winston Blake]

They dropped their weapons and didn't resist arrest? Where's the inevitable suicide ending to school attacks?

Maybe they were momentarily confused as to how to kill themselves with baseball bats.

'Shit they're coming!' *repeatedly hits his forehead with a bat*
'What if you hit me in the head, and then I'll hit you... wait a second...'
'OK, everyone line up so Jim can chop our heads off, then Jim, you slit your wrists, ok?'
'DROP YOUR WEAPONS'
'Argh.'

[Glocksman]

Full-auto weapons are expensive because every year more and more are destroyed (either through confiscation or being non-transferable after an owner dies/etc)

Unless the weapon is unregistered (and thus contraband), a pre-1986 full auto can be transfered on a tax exempt basis to a lawful heir if the heir's possession would be legal in their locality and the executor submits the proper paperwork to the ATF.

My guess is that any legal full autos surrendered to the ATF upon the owner's death are done either because the heirs don't want to deal with the paperwork or are ignorant of just how much the weapon(s) are worth.

I'd deal with a huge amount of paperwork if it meant I'd inherit a weapon worth $15-$20,000.

[Glocksman]

[sarcasm]I am proud that the US is still the number one culture to emulate around the world.[/sarcasm]

It's good that no one was killed.

You kidding me? If they had been emulating the US there would've been a fucking massacre like hasn't been seen in a long. 5 guys attacking a school with semiautomatic weapons? Shit.

Semi-automatic? Dude since the assault weapons ban hasn't been renewed you'd probably see full auto. Heck I saw a fellow an M60 in a gun store near me.

Unless the dealer was a legal MG dealer (not very common), the gun you saw was probably something like semi auto only M240

Notice the $13,500 price tag.

[gizmojumpjet]

I'd deal with a huge amount of paperwork if it meant I'd inherit a weapon worth $15-$20,000.

Even if it was this gun?

[Glocksman]

Well, yeah.
Cause I can unload it for the $15k and put the money towards a Thompson.
I've always wanted a genuine gangster Tommy gun with the L drum and vertical foregrip.
Then I can gun down Sonny Corelone from a toll booth.

[Atavarius]

Just to fill in a little more on the procedure to own a fully automatic firearm, here is a thread from a guy who had to go through the process. Well, actually he was buying a short barreled rifle (you also have to go through this if you want to own a rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches). And here is a website with some for sale just to illustrate prices.

[Atavarius]

Ghetto Edit.


Actually after looking at that thread, he was building an SBR, but the processes are nearly identical.

[Gandalf]

They dropped their weapons and didn't resist arrest? Where's the inevitable suicide ending to school attacks?

That's the one thing I can't understand. How the hell did they think this would end?

With a gun you might have the outside chance of fighting your way to freedom or something. What are four baseball bats and a machete going to do?

[Raj Ahten]

Holy Hell, looking at that site selling guns, a Sten gun is running around $5000. Thats practically unbelievable, as a Sten is one of the cheapest piece of shit SMG's ever produced. Who would actually buy one of those to own, rather than just trade of speculate on?