SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread?

[DarthShady]

It's not that important to know exactly how many rifles you have in your army (or even planes,for that matter) - I just make sure that what I deploy is somewhat realistic and plausible, to avoid things like the goddamned Shadow Empire making fucking atomic cannons and nuclear submarines and ICBMs and launching satellites and...

I have changed that. My military now consists only of the initial forces that Zor gave us.

[K. A. Pital]

Remember to reload the image, if old images show up from browser cache. Various mistakes corrected. New states added: Tonkin IRT.

Since people have been using "Libertopia" in plots, but it does not have any meaningful government to speak of and is just a lawless Mad Max territory, I hereby give you that: Terra Libertia, a governmentless equivalent of Somalia.

And this are the latest power alliances.

[Surlethe]

God, I wish I had time to play this. Starglider and Stas can have my country to play with; remember, I started a major energy and space initiative (space elevator on the equator FTW!), and I'd like to be played defensively.

[K. A. Pital]

I'm really sorry but I can't play your nation ... there's so much to do that the game starts infringing on my work and sleep, and that's because I'm not just running my nation but also the map and acting in the O.M.S.K...

Starglider could probably do it.

Unless of course you allow your territory to be annexed to some nation completely, making it essentially one and controlled by one player.

@ All: I have considered the talks between the A.P.C.S. powers to have supported phase out from Syndromia. Over the course of the next months - meaning today and tomorrow - the disengagement would be complete.

Syndromia will so far remain a Parliamentary republic (meaning htere is no leader), and Zorian observers will remain there, but it's open to future plotlines

I hope we're all happy Syndromia is no longer a burden on our militaries (but it will remain a not-so pleasant state for a while).

Now, let's turn our eye to that very real Civil War in New Gottland.

EDIT: Alliances edited again, color codes added and the Republic of N'ton has been included into AANRS (see Crossroads, you're NOT alone )

[Shroom Man 777]

Can we maintain a minimal Allied presence in Syndromia?

[K. A. Pital]

The phase out is lasting, but I guess we could leave token forces behind. Call them "military reconstruction advisors" or something. That's what I thought "military advisors" are the kind of people who are foreign military but they mostly show how to command the military of the country they're sent to

[K. A. Pital]

OKAY, where the hell could that destroyer come from?

I think the only place possible is Syndromia (the only destroyed military capable of wielding such warhips), which means that it was not there during both REPELLING and SYNDROMIAN STRIKE, but went rogue instead and hid somewhere in Neutral Waters on the outskirts of the archipelago, probably in Terra Libertia territories.

Shit.

[Decue]

OKAY, where the hell could that destroyer come from?

I think the only place possible is Syndromia (the only destroyed military capable of wielding such warhips), which means that it was not there during both REPELLING and SYNDROMIAN STRIKE, but went rogue instead and hid somewhere in Neutral Waters on the outskirts of the archipelago, probably in Terra Libertia territories.

Shit.

Sounds good. As far I planned the this is the round two of the civil war I mentioned when I made my country, basically von Klage is back and wants his country back and has hired the pirates (who previously had the dracoville and kuloville as free ports) to help him out.

[Shroom Man 777]

Baerne has expressed desire to be part of that token "military reconstruction advisor" force.

As for Syndromia, Libertia, and Gottland - goddamn, we're gonna have an actual-factual "Axis of Evil" and "War on Terror" on our hands. Just what the FUNGAL AXIS needs. More low-intensity warfare.

FUNGAL AXIS nations, be wary and start repressing any insurgent terroristic anarchistic activity, mangs.

[K. A. Pital]

yeah.

If small nations desintegrate and fall into shithole-ness of African level...

We'll have lots of problems on our hands. Especially as distances are short and it's pretty easy to flee over the straits. Mass fugee exodus - BAD.

But I did help, even when disengaging from Syndromia at the same time! My planes went on a bombing run to show some bomber porn before those two Su-34 squadrons finally leave the Syndromian airfields.

[DarthShady]

Guys since i have returned my entire military back to the beginning, that is what little Zor gave us, i need help in organizing my military.

I am thinking of using mainly weapons manufactured by the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia(and Russia,Serbia) such as M-84 tank,BTR-60 armored personnel carrier.BVP M-80 IFV, and for the airforce MiG-21 or MiG-29,or both. Also Soko J-22 Orao Fighter Bomber to be the main Ground-Attack Aircraft. I would also use Antonov An-26 as a military Transport and Liaison Aircraft.
Helicopters: Mil Mi-24 Attack helicopter, and Mil Mi-8 as a transport.

I would also like to include some navy ships and subs produced by these countries.

I understand my small empire can't afford all these things immediately but i would like to implement them over time. I just need info on prices.
I plan to make my military similar to the countries i mentioned above(where possible). Some of it might be out of date, but i think it will give my country's military some flavor.
What do you guys think? Any advice would be appreciated.

[Simplicius]

I too would like to revise my military OOB, excluding those things which I have announced as building or budgeted in-game (the P-3s) - so, tweaks will be coming in the equipment alloted me in Zor's OP.

Since I wasn't able to get even half of my budget-crunching done before the game reached 16 or 17 pages, I'd like to make the revision to make my work a little more complete and a little less half-assed. Since my storytelling sucks worse than my budgeting skills, I ought to get at least half this right.

[Shroom Man 777]

[@ Shady] Ask Stas or PeZook for statistics, mang. They're actual-factual statisticians or something.

Gottland isn't a big country and the civil war started rather recently, Gottish guvmint forces clash with the revolutionaries and then we have the Technocracy do an unexpected bombing run and my latest post shows Shroomania doing a quick follow up.

With lots of peacekeeper reinforcements along the way, I think the Gottish issue should be resolved quickly - it's not as big or as bad as Syndromia with awesome rogue officers and slave-trafficking. Then we can focus on those goddamn Volleyball Libertopians!

[Vanas]

FUNGAL AXIS nations, be wary and start repressing any insurgent terroristic anarchistic activity, mangs.

I think the only way to suppress VLtopia is to carpet-bomb it end to end, napalm the craters, a heavy dose of VX gas and then deploying a crack team of people to salt the earth where the 'nation' once stood. So, over to Shep.

As a side note, based on the new look economy model, a vague OOB has formed.

Vanaheim armoured forces are based on the British Army CVR(T) series of light tanks and Warrior IFVs, airforce of a handful of F-15s, plus a number of Hinds and Chinooks and naval forces as previously stated. Hopefully that leaves some in the budget tanks for expansion, but I can't be bothered to do the maths. Just keeping things conservative.

[K. A. Pital]

DarthShady
Okay, let's see what you can do

Your GDP is 6 billion, undaunting military expenses would be in the range of 0,1-0,5 billion, 60% spend on maintenance/pay, while the other 30-40% is spent on production/aquisition of new weapons and R&D, the R&D being between 10 and 20% of overall military spending

Since your military is small and you don't have a military industry with R&D to spend on, you probably could have around 50% for new procurement - meaning 50 to 250 million per year, depending on your warlike-ness

It's really sad but you'd have to order SFRY arms from someone else (does anyone here have a SFRY arms industry anyway?). I could sell you Russian/Soviet weaponry.

Here's what you and I could do:
For immegiate procurement, you could have probably a Mil-24 or two and around 2-3 Mi-8 supply craft; they would alone eat up around 10 million in maintenance probably but you can do that (you should remember that maintenance costs for tech alone shouldn't rise more than 20 to 125 billion since else it means your people are underpaid, military bases are in disarray and command structure is on cheap vodka) of course you can't maintain it so these expenses go not into your military industry but into mine. To get something military you'd have to copycat a design like the Chinese, which takes some years and R&D.

A Mi-24 (single chopper) would probably cost you around 500,000 to 1,000,000 in operation costs yearly, depending on how much you fly it. A Mi-8 would be twice lower costs of op. So all your force is capable and you could try to order something for FY-2009 which is due next week Mi-24 procurement is also around 800,000 - 1,000,000 USD per 1 machine.

An An-26 costs around 50 000 USD, so place an order for a military transport fleet and you could get an airmobile army actually

For 2,5 million USD (this is actually a huge discount, An-26 sales in 2000 Turkey went for 80K I'm ready to supply the Shady Empire with a fleet of 50 An-25s that could move, well, most of it's army leaving a little home reserve

BTR-60s would cost around 150 000 probably per unit (maintenance costs for AFVs are low and not as obscene as airforce so not detailed here)

MiG-21s would cost you around 5 000 000 per unit (with maintenance costs overhead around 500 K yearly, remember) semi-new, and MiG-29 new production runs (there aren't obsolete stockpiles in this world) are 25-30 million USD each with a 500K-1000000 annual support cost per machine.

Choose wisely

[Shroom Man 777]

Anyway, I propose we create some sort of anti-piracy line.

Check the oceans. From the Sovereignty of Shroomania, to the Republic of Vulpesia to the Shadow Empire, the FUNGAL AXIS and LUN (Vulpesia) can form an anti-piracy line to interdict those asshole Voluntaryists from stirring more shit up.

Down South, I can see a joint FUNGAL-LUN line going from Zablania, to the Grand Duchy of Vanaheim (LUN) to Zoria (LUN) and then to New Gottland.

We can create a line that will restrict these passages from piracy and stem the tide of those Voluntaryists from down south (how the hell their pirates got through Saddamistan, well... that's a question. How we'll deal with the Voluntaryists with Saddamistan so close... that's another question).

Obviously we need MESS involvement in this before we get another misunderstanding and end up with another mess (haha).

Fucking Volleyballs!

EDIT:

As for the Shadow Empire... well, Shroomania could also sell US-made firearms.

Well, currently we're still wondering whether to go with US-made stuff or Russian-stuff from the Technocracy...

[Vanas]

Part of me wonders how the Voluntaryists achieved anything, going by their OOB. :p

I guess they paddled most of it, with possible stop offs for spare slaves on the way.

[K. A. Pital]

Shroom, you could procure something Russian from me if you really need it without having to bear extra costs FY 2009 is near so if you place the order it will be delivered in the next 2 weeks.

US machinery rocks though and as you are a Tsardom you could supply all FUNGAL smaller nations which wish to have US based arms.

I'll probably become a Russian arms supplier to smaller nations.

As for the Vollies, the Terra Libertia is a free for all land kinda like Somalia. And yes, Somalian pirates use weaponry sometimes o the wrong targets

[Shroom Man 777]

Well... I'm gonna be slowly turning my Zor-given starting points into US mil-spec. But I think I'll be using Russian stuff for more specialized duties. Hinds instead of Apaches, Antonovs instead of Boeings, that kind of stuff

Besides, does a mish-mash of Soviet/US/Euro weapons really make things that hard?

I mean, would an F-22 have more parts commonality with an F-15 than it does with an Su-35?

[Vanas]

I'll have to update the slightly tongue in cheek OOB of this fact, clearly
.
As for national weapons, I'd have to assume that the Duchy produces it's own variants of British vehicles for those who have a craving for light vehicles. I'm sure that if paid enough and given time, Challenger2 MBTs and th elike can be produced. At present, the Duchy hasn't the money or incentive to do so.

[K. A. Pital]

Uh.. not really, yeah. The F-22 - F-15 thing, if you read the Airforce docs, is a replacement thing. Either that or the other. No cost cutting, a straight comparison of costs. The F-22 opcosts are higher than F-15 but there's less craft and so the AF opted for it.

Besides, does a mish-mash of Soviet/US/Euro weapons really make things that hard?

Supply and maintenance is simply more expensive since separate technician training, sep. manufacturing plants and so on.

I guess moving a chopper industry is simple as you have only Mils for helis, that'd give no problems.
Ans instead of Boeings too.

If you want to operate both then the problem rises. Like operating MiGs and F-22 at the same time, you'd have to have two hulking suport complexes and huge military industries.

'm sure that if paid enough and given time, Challenger2 MBTs and th elike can be produced.

could be, technically, but that'd take a few years. You'd have to license plants (or steal from soneone making British AFVs) then wait. Like the Chinese they are the prime example of establishing industrial arms designs complex from nothing.

[Shroom Man 777]

Grrr. I'm weighing the scales and am wondering which stuff to implement... gah!

British Challenger 2s and ground-units... Russian Mils... American fighters? Seems reasonable... I think I shall settle with that.

Also, guys, these "brushfire" conflicts and low-intensity warfare stuff makes me wonder. Is it possible for Shroomania to have a couple of its ace fighter pilots go and create a company of "mercenary aces" that get hired and go around friendly countries bombing the shit out of badguys while not wasting the Mushroom Military's assets?

While Shroomania has American jets, these homoerotic maverick renegades could have spiffy Russian stuff

[K. A. Pital]

Well that's cool. If you'd need Ruskie planes for your ace squadron to crush the puny militants, I'd sell you them

[Vanas]

could be, technically, but that'd take a few years. You'd have to license plants (or steal from soneone making British AFVs) then wait. Like the Chinese they are the prime example of establishing industrial arms designs complex from nothing.

Gah, my spelling seems to have joined the choir invisible.

Due to no-one else presently building British vehicles, I'd assume the Duchy builds it's own light vehicles for it's army, albeit on a rather smaller scale than the UK does, so there's some infrastructure already there. As for getting the licences... Um, from who?

[Decue]

Hmm, I think Gottland needs some new hardware and soviet stuff would fit their image best. Some kind of large transport plane would do for my marines.
Airborne mechanised marines, now we are talking: Not bad for some poorly trained toyota warriors.