Bio-Diesel Question

[Kitsune]

On another board, there is a relatively friendly discussion of Ethanol as a fuel source.

My understanding is that however the actual numbers show, it is expensive. What I am curious about is about Bio-Diesel.

I wanted a show where they ran a diesel car on used French Fry oil. They got only something like 10% less efficiency as well. Now, I am not saying that we have unlimited French Fry oil but it seems to indicate an easier process.

Curious, how do the numbers break down for bio-diesel?

[Ted C]

I've looked into biodiesel for a while, and everything I can find out about it says that biodiesel gives you the same number of miles per gallon as petrodiesel. Further, biodiesel is apparently a better engine lubricant than petrodiesel, so the engine actually undergoes less wear.

People who make it at home say they can generally do so for about $0.70 per gallon, making it substantially less expensive than petrodiesel, at least while there's not much competition for the feedstock (usually waste oil from restaurants).

The only cautions I know about are that biodiesel dissolves certain plastics used in the fuel lines of older diesel engines-- so you have to make sure those have been modernized, and biodiesel also dissolves sulfur deposits left by petrodiesel, so a vehicle that has been switched from petrodiesel will probably need to have its fuel filters replaced before long.

[Broomstick]

If I recall, the first diesel engine ran on peanut oil - so, in that sense, biodiesel is the original diesel fuel.

Biodiesel production can also result in glycerin as a waste product, which must then be dealt with.

[ShadowRider77]

I happen to work in a firm that, among other things, designs and builds bio-diesel plants; I've been working here for just a few months now (before, I was in the petrochemical plant construction industry), so I can't say I am an expert, but there is something I think I have understood...

1) Bio-diesel is already a viable alternative to petrol-derivate fuels for automotive and generally transport applications. Indeed, in several countries, diesel fuel sold to public already contains a percentage of biological fuel (around 4% if I remember correctly...), that is destined to increase, and the main car manufacturers already approve its use.

2) Contrarily to what you may have read on the net, you cannot just dump peanut oil in your tank and pretend it to work. It will work, for a while, but except if you are running it on a very old-style engine (like some old farming tractors, that will guzzle pretty much everything you throw in them...), it will quickly ruin your engine: unrefined oils contain rubbers, that at high temperatures will condense in very hard deposits, plugging the injectors and forcing you to a very expensive replacement.

3) Consequently, the vegetable oil (many kind of oils can be used, basically all oils that contain triglycerids; experiments are being performed using various non-edible vegetables, like algae and jatropha) must undergo a series of chemical processes to be usable; among the other things, it must be stripped of rubbers, the triglycerids must be made react with ethanol, producing methylester (the product) and glycerol, the glycerol must be separated and the methylester must be purified (to remove all resituals of water and of the various chemicals used in the process). Naturally, the byproducts (rubbers amd glycerol) must be appropriately treated for disposal (or, better, for further separate use in other industries).

4) the process described above is not particularily complex in itself, and according to what the chemicians around here tell me, can be done 'at home'; the problem is, by making this at home it is very time consuming, not really economical, and does not guarantee a good degree of pureness and quality of the fuel. The point is to produce biodiesel in great quantities, in an economically and energetically efficient way, and with a commercially viable degree of quality, also with the possibility to recondition and reuse as much as possible of the substances (citric acid, among the others) that are used in the process and that cannot be simply thrown away in the environment (something that, at home, is very difficult to do). This is why many companies have been researching for many years to finally come out with good solutions.

5) buiding a biodiesel plant is not a joke. Especially in the beginning, when the technology was new, costs were very high and times long, with high degrees of uncertainty for both. Now both these factors are decreasing (an average capacity plant costs around 30 millions € and takes about a year to build). The fact that we alone are building right now a dozen plants around the world, and at least as many others are about to start construction (again, for us alone), strikes me as an indicator that interest in this field is increasing.

6) the biodiesel obtained with the above process is supposed to be as efficient as petrol-derivate equivalent fuel, with a cleaner combustion to boot.

7) the main critique being moved on biodiesel as an alternative to fossil fuels is that producing it takes away room for cultivation of food; actually, I've already seen biodiesel production accused for the increase of price for some cereals. The accusation seems unfounded to me (until now, biodiesel production was too small to significantly influence worldwide prices...), but it could become a problem when biodiesel production will increase. For this reason, as I said, experiments are being carried on with vegetables that are not edible and won't take away space for other cultivations; algae and jatropha (a plant growing in semi-desertic terrains) seems to show promising results.

I hope the above is of some help.

[ShadowRider77]

Correction on the above post: it is methanol, not ethanol. Sorry for the mistype.

[Ted C]

With regard to running an engine on straight vegetable oil (SVO as the people who do it say), having the oil in the engine while it's running apparently isn't the problem. Stopping the engine with SVO in it and letting it cool: that's a problem -- the oil will congeal when it cools, and you may never get the engine started again. People who use SVO always use a two-tank system: they run on diesel or biodiesel when they start up, switch over to SVO after the engine warms up, and switch back when they near their destination so the engine will have diesel/biodiesel in it when it cools.

I think one of the major issues with biodiesel, ethanol, and all "renewable fuels" is scalability.

It's not really my father's field (his PhD is in physics), but he says that you could devote every acre/hectare of arable land in the world to biofuel production and not have nearly enough to meet even US demand. I wouldn't be surprised if that's true, especially considering the need to keep land devoted to food production.

They're not always mutually exclusive, though. Byproducts of many food crops are viable feedstock for biofuel operations. The stalks and leaves of corn, for instance, can potentially be fed into cellulosic ethanol production.

I personally believe that the best solution to fuel sustainability is a "production everywhere, from everything" approach. With diesel engines running on biodiesel, gas engines running ethanol, electrics charged by nuclear, etc., there will be enough options to seriously reduce petroleum dependence. The headache is getting enough infrastructure in place to support all those options.

[Broomstick]

One of my thoughts on the whole fuel shortage issue is that part of the problem was becoming dependent on just one source - petroleum - for so much. Diversification is inefficient in the sense you do require multiple infrastructures to produce, transport, and use multiple energy sources, but it also can provide protection against a shortage in any particular source. I keep hearing "this can't provide all our needs, that can't provide all our need" but could a combination of alternates provide our needs?

[Enola Straight]

One of the problems of ethanol production is thermodynamic/economic efficiency: devoting a dollar's worth of time, effort, and energy into making ethanol usually produces a little less than a dollars worth of usable fuel. This is why ethanol is sometimes called an energy vehicle, instead of a fuel.

Biodiesel, on the other hand, returns about 3.24 times energy investment.

It is relatively easy to make bio:

Take vegetable oil/animal lard and add a quantity of dehydrated methanol and a dry alkali like lye ( there must be no water involved, or you will make soap). The actual amounts to add depends on the ph of the grease. Mix them together for an hour and let settle. After another hour, glycerine settles out of solution, and bio rises to the top.

Biodiesel plants generally further refine the glycerine and bio to recover what methanol and alkali they can to recycle to the next batch.

Modifying an engine ro run on straight vegetable oil is better...you invest time and energy ONCE, and you use ALL of the grease, without throwing a portion of it away. The fuel tank and fuel line is heated to engine operating temperature by circulating an antifreeze line. You start the cold engine on biodiesel/dinodiesel until the engine warms up, and you switch over. Before you shut down, switch back to purge the fuel lines.

"Free" waste vegetable oil contains about 85-95% of the energy found in refined dinodiesel, which costs more than $3.00 nowadays.

[Spin Echo]

Huh. Turns out Diesel grows on trees.

Money doesn’t grow on trees, so it should stand to reason that diesel fuel wouldn’t grow on trees either. And yet the Brazilian Copaifera langsdorfii tree has been quietly producing a natural diesel variant in the tropical rainforest, something we’ve known about since the seventeenth century. It’s only now that farmers in Australia have decided to farm the tree on a large scale in the hopes of having 20,000 living, above-ground fuel wells.

The tree produces terpene hydrocarbons, which are the family of molecules that give us turpentine from pine resin. The particular hydrocarbons the Copaifera tree produces are so well suited to powering diesel engines that they can almost be put directly in the tank from the tree. It’s harvested in much the same way as a maple tree is tapped for producing syrup.

There is question as to whether or not the tree is financially viable as a fuel source; it is estimated that 100 trees could produce 25 barrels annually, which is an awfully low figure for the investment necessary in the land and upkeep of the trees. Additionally, the fuel does not keep for very long and loses its potency after a few months.

So while the natural diesel seems not to be an option for export, it could prove well suited to sustaining the fuel needs of individual farms. That’s the experiment the North Queensland farmers are undertaking in hopes of achieving fuel independence when the trees mature.

However, in terms of scalability, the vertical algae farms sounds more promising

ANTHONY, Texas (CNN) -- Texas may be best known for "Big Oil." But the oil that could some day make a dent in the country's use of fossil fuels is small. Microscopic, in fact: algae. Literally and figuratively, this is green fuel.

Plant physiologist Glen Kertz believes algae can some day be competitive as a source for biofuel.

1 of 3 "Algae is the ultimate in renewable energy," Glen Kertz, president and CEO of Valcent Products, told CNN while conducting a tour of his algae greenhouse on the outskirts of El Paso.

Kertz, a plant physiologist and entrepreneur, holds about 20 patents. And he is psyched about the potential algae holds, both as an energy source and as a way to deal with global warming.

"We are a giant solar collecting system. We get the bulk of our energy from the sunshine," said Kertz.

Algae are among the fastest growing plants in the world, and about 50 percent of their weight is oil. That lipid oil can be used to make biodiesel for cars, trucks, and airplanes. Watch how pond scum can be turned into fuel »

Most people know algae as "pond scum." And until recently, most energy research and development projects used ponds to grow it.

But instead of ponds, Valcent uses a closed, vertical system, growing the algae in long rows of moving plastic bags. The patented system is called Vertigro, a joint venture with Canadian alternative energy company Global Green Solutions. The companies have invested about $5 million in the Texas facility.

"A pond has a limited amount of surface area for solar absorption," said Kertz.

"By going vertical, you can get a lot more surface area to expose cells to the sunlight. It keeps the algae hanging in the sunlight just long enough to pick up the solar energy they need to produce, to go through photosynthesis," he said.

Kertz said he can produce about 100,000 gallons of algae oil a year per acre, compared to about 30 gallons per acre from corn; 50 gallons from soybeans.

Using algae as an alternative fuel is not a new idea. The U.S. Department of Energy studied it for about 18 years, from 1978 to 1996. But according to Al Darzins of the DOE's National Renewable Energy Lab, in 1996 the feds decided that algae oil could never compete economically with fossil fuels.

The price of a barrel of oil in 1996? About 20 bucks!

Government scientists experimented with algae in open ponds in California, Hawaii, and in Roswell, New Mexico.

But that involved a lot of land area, with inherent problems of evaporation and contamination from other plant species and various flying and swimming critters. Darzins said NREL switched from algae research to focus on cellulosic ethanol. That's ethanol made from plants like switchgrass and plant stover -- the leaves and stalks left after a harvest -- but not edible crops such as corn and soybeans.

Valcent research scientist Aga Pinowska said there are about 65,000 known algae species, with perhaps hundreds of thousands more still to be identified.

A big part of the research at the west Texas facility involves determining what type of algae produces what type of fuel. One species may be best suited for jet fuel, while the oil content of another may be more efficient for truck diesel.

In the Vertigro lab, Pinowska studies the care and feeding of algae for just such specifics. She said even small changes in the nutrients that certain algae get can help create a more efficient oil content.

And she said a knowledge of algae's virtues goes way back.

"Even the Aztecs knew it was beneficial; they used it as a high protein food," said Pinowska.

The other common commercial use of algae today is as a health food drink, usually sold as "Spirulina."

I'm too sexy for my pond

And who knew that single celled plants could be such "hotties" when it comes to sex? Kertz said it's a real "algae orgy" under the microscope.

Some algae reproduce sexually, some asexually, while many combine both modes. In some green algae the type of reproduction may be altered if there are changes in environmental conditions, such as lack of moisture or nutrients.

Intriguing details like that keep Kertz and other scientists searching for more and different algae. While dusty west Texas may not be the best hunting grounds, he said he is always on the lookout for samples in puddles, streams or ponds.

Locating algae processing plants intelligently can add to their efficiency. Locating algae facilities next to carbon producing power plants, or manufacturing plants, for instance, the plants could sequester the C02 they create and use those emissions to help grow the algae, which need the C02 for photosynthesis.

And after more than a decade hiatus, the U.S. government is back in the algae game. The 2007 Energy Security and Independence Act includes language promoting the use of algae for biofuels. From the Pentagon to Minnesota to New Zealand, both governments and private companies are exploring the use of algae to produce fuel.

But Al Darzins of the National Renewable Energy Lab said the world is still probably 5 to 10 years away from any substantial use of biofuels.

"There's not any one system that anyone has chosen yet. Whatever it is has to be dirt, dirt cheap," said Darzins.

[FOG3]

Odd, why would CNN bother mentioning such a company given Greenfuel is several steps ahead of them basically only lacking sufficient capital for mass implementation by now?