Bernd Schneider finally answers my E-mail

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-01-22 09:42pm

I never even knew this site EXISTED before about, oh, August of last year!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-22 09:44pm

NF_Utvol wrote:I never even knew this site EXISTED before about, oh, August of last year!

And as soon as you discovered it, you:

A) bragged about concealing your identity and trolling here

B) flamed us as "low IQ" morons.

So don't give me this bullshit about how you only flamed us in response to us flaming you, you lying little shit.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-22 10:37pm

NF_Utvol wrote: [*] They deliberately perpetrated an invasion of this site, boasting of it openly on their board, and deliberately tried to annoy and irritate other members during that invasion.

- We NEVER perpetrated an invasion of your site. Two members of SCN joined your board to respond to accusations made on this board. If anybody perpetrated an ivasion, it was your board. Many more members of SDNet joined SCN than vice versa. Also, we never attempted to aggravate your members in any way.

Liar. You DID perpetuate an invasion of our site by attempting to inspire others to move over here and troll on our board, while concealing their point of origin. That represents an invasion. And I would say that you made a lip-service attempt to stop aggravating our members AFTER we discovered your flaming of our board, which was MONTHS after you began. That IS aggravation. Is it your board policy to lie consistently, like this, when caught in the act of morally reprehensible actions, despite the documentable, objective evidence to the contrary?

I guess that the fact that our board's general consensus of your site was good constituted aggravation, too, because IMMEDIATELY after Doctor Schneider posted how impressed he was with us, other moderators began flaming our site.

[*] They repeatedly insulted the board, which came from numerous members, including their moderators and administrators.

- Yes, we might have insulted your board. But only after you insulted OURS.

I'm tired of your bullshit. You have been flaming our board for MONTHS. You refused to stop of your own accord, and only made even the obligatory, sarcastic attempts to stop AFTER WE DISCOVERED IT AND ASKED YOU TO STOP.

[*] They ignored attempts at parley through a number of methods, but my favorite was the moderator who claimed that my response to a moderator's response was in violation of the terms of the cease-fire. This essentially meant that he had thought it was okay to UNILATERALLY declare the feud over, without giving the other side to even respond to the terms of the cease-fire which they made deliberately to buy them time.

We were the ones who attempted to stop it the first time, and YOUR board kept bringing it back up!!! You, my friends, were the ones who didn't want peace. I don't want to hear that you tried to make peace, because you clearly did not. I do not want to hear your paranoid delusions that we made the cease fire to 'buy us time.' What would be the point of that? Nothing.

Bullshit. You insisted on insulting and flaming our board, even during your mock apologies. The first time we had a truce, our side held it until it was (rapidly) discovered that it had been a ruse to get us to back off. Razor then posted an intentionally inflamatory post, effectively drawing his sword to smite a serpent. You then blamed US for the ensuing skirmishes, claiming that it was OUR fault that your board member posted that message, ignoring the truce that had been declared.

[*] They immediately locked their board, preventing members of our site from even discussing the matter with them.

Yes, we locked our board. We did it because your leader, Mike Wong, was promoting a board war! We took the fact that there were so many people were joining our board after this incident as a threat, and stopped registration.

Bullshit. Mike (and I) were pissed off at ONE member of your board: Bernd Schneider. We had DECLARED that we had no problems with your board at the time, and that our problem was personal. We further agreed to limit our disagreement to Doctor Schneider, and not transpose that upon any other members of your board (which I advocated doing from the start, in posts on your board as well as this one). Your side then continued to flame us and locked its registration for no reason other than your paranoia. Incidentally, it should be noted the sheer hypocrisy of doing so. Your board had allowed members to move to our board in the past for the EXPRESSED reason of trolling, and derided us. You took NO action to stop it, representing consent.

[*] They repeatedly edited and even deleted posts that made relevent points that were detrimental to EAS on their forum, which continued well after they were called on it. They did this for no reason other than to prevent their board members from understanding the truth.

We did delete posts. I personally did not, but those responsible were a bit hasty in doing this. There was no call to delete posts. But it was not to prevent board members from 'understanding the truth'.

Irrelevent, the abuse of power by your moderators was not even questioned by the EAS board. Your board DID delete posts. This is inexcusable during a debate for ANY reasons, except the safety of the members in real life. You are correct, though, I mispoke. Your moderator did not do anything to prevent members from understanding the truth, rather, he was enforcing a UNILATERAL cease-fire that had NOT been approved of on our end, and in fact was explicitly REJECTED IN THE POST HE DELETED. This is not just dishonest and ammoral, but also a part of a consistent policy of preventing one side from voicing their opinions. Your SAME MODERATOR then derided us as being close-minded. I understand that his sins are not yours, and that there is no justification for such actions, however this was a part of a consistent policy of this moderator, and was not stopped or even commented on by the other moderators and administrator of the site.

[*] They then claimed that they were morally superior, in spite of their repugnant behavior, because some of SD.net's denizens responded to their slandering of the board in GENERAL, as well as numerous posters and the founder of the board, without explanation.

- I don't even know how to start on this. We never claimed to be morally superiour. You have just as much right to your opinions as we do. And you must admit, the way your board acts, what with your blatheing on with profanity and vulgarities, it does not give you a very good look.

Yeah, sure. So statements like "They're just idiots," or "Yes, we locked our board [because Mike was encouraging] a board war" were not designed to indicate moral superiority? It's clear that they were meant to convey the message, as are all of your attempts to claim that "SD.net flamed first."

[*] They accused a member of this board of altering THEIR posts, even though he is not a moderator here and the original post could easily be found on the site.

- We never accused anybody of doing anything. It was claimed by one of our members that what was posted was not what he said. Since, seeing that he never had lied before, we decided to look into it further. I asked YOU if it had happened. If anything, I was giving you your fair chance to answer back and I was helping YOU.

You accused him of altering a post, even though the evidence was right in front of you. You claimed that the post did not appear to be that of a member of your site, and asked him if he had doctored it. How does this not represent an accusation of foul play? It implies that he was willing to doctor a statement in order to prove his point.

[*] They deliberately distorted the truth, so as to paint SD.net as being "anti-Trek," and claimed that we refused to allow our members to enjoy Star Trek. Apparently the only way they can enjoy Star Trek is if it is not only subjectively superior as a form of entertainment, but ALSO technologically superior. They have not posted any evidence, whatsoever, of either of these arguments being reasonable.

- We never distorted any truth. We do not think that Trek is superiour to anything, in fact, it is lower than many things. When was it said that it was technologically superior? It never was. It is less technologically advanced, apparently, than Star Wars. SCN isnt even a SWvsST board, for crying out loud! We never even discuss SWvsST!!! Or STvs anything else, for that matter. If anybody distorts the truth in your statement, it was you.

Oh, really? In a thread that our moderators decided to delete because it contained NOTHING but worthless spam, your invaders did just that (invaders, incidentally, who originated from your board). Again, you lie in order to distort the truth.

[*] Having repeatedly claimed the previous to be true of our board, they then claimed it was unfair of members here to flame people who ignored objective evidence despite the fact that they flamed this board REPEATEDLY for its perceived slights on SUBJECTIVE statements.

- As far as I know, flaming someone is NOT the way to get them to agree with you.

Style over substance fallacy. You wish us to end this board war, but on your terms this has already been declared as being unacceptable. If you would like to renegotiate terms, then fine, but ALL OF THE POINTS I MADE WERE OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE AGAINST YOUR BOARD. NONE OF THEM were subjective, and you cannot merely dismiss them as being heresay or similar.

Now, I can see that my arguments are futile, because you will continue to distort my words into something that will support your argument, no matter WHO is right. I am wasting my breath...

I don't need to distort your words. Moreover, again you accuse our board of distorting posts when the originals are CLEARLY there for people to see. I don't think I need to point out the hypocrisy of someone like you coming over here and screaming that I WOULD alter your post, when your administrators deliberately and maliciously deleted posts during the middle of a debate that was going on, and renounced an attempt to negotiate a settlement to the hostilities. Further, you imply that what I have done has distorted your words. Cite ONE example of me doing so. Cite ONE example of my altering a post in order to prevent someone else from expressing an opinion. Cite ONE example of me deleting a post. This goes for ALL of the moderators here at SD.net, as well as myself.

Edit: I somehow managed to miss a substantial number of his claims, the first time I posted this. I corrected that in the edit, but didn't change the wording of anything that was already up there.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-22 10:38pm

NF_Utvol wrote:I never even knew this site EXISTED before about, oh, August of last year!

And you immediately and intentionally began trolling on our site, and flaming us on yours. Stop telling us that we flamed your site first, because it simply is NOT TRUE.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-22 10:41pm

They will probably point to spam-posts which have been deleted, as if that's the same thing as deleting points that you don't want people to see.

They seem to think that if some WCOTC donkey-fucker spams something like "kill all the niggers" all over every single forum and we delete it, this proves we're just as bad as them

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-22 10:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:
NF_Utvol wrote:I never even knew this site EXISTED before about, oh, August of last year!
And as soon as you discovered it, you:

A) bragged about concealing your identity and trolling here

B) flamed us as "low IQ" morons.

So don't give me this bullshit about how you only flamed us in response to us flaming you, you lying little shit.

NF_Utvol also ran away for several months because we were "too objective".

Idiot.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-22 10:56pm

Their board consists of idealists.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-22 11:03pm

Mike, I think you should publish your prior email discussion with Bernd Schneider on your hate-mail page just so everyone can have the proof of how big an idiot he really is.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-22 11:05pm

Darth Servo wrote:Mike, I think you should publish your prior email discussion with Bernd Schneider on your hate-mail page just so everyone can have the proof of how big an idiot he really is.

I think Mike deleted it. It would have been in his "In-Box" for several years, if he still has it.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2003-01-22 11:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:Who the fuck do these little shits think they are?

Apparently they seem to believe their shit doesn't stink either, Mike. But yours does!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-22 11:09pm

It's been three years since I corresponded with him. I actually went looking, but could only find one or two messages in my giant flamebox, and I know there were more. Most of his complaints dealt with subjective matters (is anyone shocked yet?), but he did say a few amusing things on technical issues.

It was actually a fairly civil conversation in which the barbs were very mild and mostly from his side, which is why I paid it no mind and was rather surprised to discover that Schneider has been bad-mouthing me for the last three years as a result.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-22 11:09pm

Lord_Xerxes wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Who the fuck do these little shits think they are?
Apparently they seem to believe their shit doesn't stink either, Mike. But yours does!

LOL!

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-22 11:23pm

Darth Wong wrote:It's been three years since I corresponded with him. I actually went looking, but could only find one or two messages in my giant flamebox, and I know there were more.

Damn.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-01-22 11:55pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Well you know, Mike, I'm not saying you're a bad person. Hell, some of my best friends are orcs! Let's let this die. I live my life without belittling others who are wrong, you know. I won't say anything bad about your website full of fallacious subjective poop, and you won't cuss at me, ok? Can we be civil about this. I mean, I know I can..."

Asshole. Simply saying something is fallacious is...*GASP*! A fallacy!

Erm... I'm just making sure...The above was my attempt at parody. No one at EAS said it!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-22 11:59pm

And they whine for peace? No peace with the morons and the self righteous. I will not slither to their level, invading a board, backtalking, shouting in one voice. I will merely stand here, guarding the gate. Rest assured, NF_Utvol, there will be peace. When you and those like you finally realize the lies and deceit you have used, the false superiority, the offense. Until then, there are only flames here.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-23 12:09am

BTW, NF Utvol, you would do well to take a peek at some of the threads on your site before you claim that they've never made any ST v. SW technical claims. Observe:

I think warsies would be more tolerable if they just ran around like little pansies saying "OoOOoh, SW is better because we have Jedi!" instead of making up all this crap that the ISD is better than a Fed ship. Yeah, Jedi are great and all, but that's about it.

Such ignorance is uncalled for

Darien

I think the 200 GT number for turbolasers is ridiculously absurd. If it were that high, we'd be seeing massive (And I mean MASSIVE) explosions every time a turbolaser hits. That's just too much energy to contain in such a small area.

Well thats ok with me but Bernd is right dont follow Wong and his asinine "truths" (200Gt yeah right why build a death star then)

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-23 12:16am

And BTW, I went back and found NF_Utvol's alleged accusation that Ender tampered with Red Byrd's post.

You posted a quote by Red Byrd. He claims he did not type all that. And I believe him. That typing style is nothing like Red's. Was this doctored in any way form or fashion?

I leave it to the readers to decide.

Antie · Post by **Antie** » 2003-01-23 12:30am

Of course, this rule mysteriously vanishes when it comes to our board, where Bernd is suddenly allowed to flatly say "you're wrong" ... and then refuse to back it up.

I have to deal with idiots who say "You're wrong! Why? Because you're wrong! When you're wrong, you're wrong!" And when I refuse to take them seriously because they don't back up their claims, they call me "closed-minded" or "stubborn." They may even say "You're just like a small child! You won't admit that you're wrong!"

First they come at this with this moronic notion that it's "close-minded" to say that anyone's opinion is wrong or ignorant or fallacious ... except when they're saying it about us .

Oh, but everyone's opinions are sacred! You don't want to hurt their feelings!

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-23 12:31am

Darth Wong wrote:They will probably point to spam-posts which have been deleted, as if that's the same thing as deleting points that you don't want people to see.

They seem to think that if some WCOTC donkey-fucker spams something like "kill all the niggers" all over every single forum and we delete it, this proves we're just as bad as them

I can't believe you didn't find his opinion as valid as your own. For shame.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-23 12:39am

NF_Utvol wrote:Have you ever stopped to think that the apologies might NOT be BS? They weren't. They were sincere.

Which is why you slap passive aggressive insults in each and every last one of them, right?

We have discussed this on SCN, and yes, everything said on this board is sincere.

I assume you refer only to the insults

Bernd's email was an attempt to make amends with you, and you rejected it.

Did you even read it? He slips insults in right and left.

Just say you reject his apology and be done with it, and please stop using YOUR postings to keep hurling insults at us!

What you are doing is a psychological condition known as "projecting". You are the ones who slap insults into every apology. We just plain tell you to fuck off.

And you know, this is really funny considering you are one of the most insulting people over there.

We have completely stopped discussion concerning Stardestroyer.net at SCN in the hopes that you would see that we are sincere about putting an end to the insults.

No, we see you are sincere in that you don't want to own up to your actions. Hence the editing and deleting of posts and threads that show what lieing sacks of shit you are. You all have the integrity of a fucking cockroach.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-23 12:40am

NF_Utvol wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
NF_Utvol wrote:Oh, and on completely unrelated note:

What type of engineering do you have a degree in, Mike? I am just curious, as I am working towards a degree in engineering.
Mechanical. Like all forms of engineering, it has this interesting characteristic of promoting the silly notion that there is a right answer and a wrong answer, not just a lot of equally valid opinions. I guess that makes it "close-minded".
All I did was ask a simple question, engineer to engineer, there was no need for that.

He slips insultsinto his answer, the same way you have been doing with your "apologies" , and you get all huffy?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-23 12:43am

NF_Utvol wrote: [*] They deliberately perpetrated an invasion of this site, boasting of it openly on their board, and deliberately tried to annoy and irritate other members during that invasion.

- We NEVER perpetrated an invasion of your site. Two members of SCN joined your board to respond to accusations made on this board. If anybody perpetrated an ivasion, it was your board. Many more members of SDNet joined SCN than vice versa. Also, we never attempted to aggravate your members in any way.

Bullshit. Pure, fucking bullshit.
Red came here and posted an "argument" of pure flames straight off the bat. He was closely followed by a few more. I go to your boards and post and EXTREMELY civil response, asking your moderators to do one of their basic functions and reign in it's members, and suddenly I was the invader. You yourself posted on your boards about coming here to stir the pot.

[*] They repeatedly insulted the board, which came from numerous members, including their moderators and administrators.

- Yes, we might have insulted your board. But only after you insulted OURS.

NEGATIVE. Go read my post, not a single insult. Where as back in august Red came here and actively trolled the place. You yourself posted about how stupid we were in that we would never trace your blocked IP when you don't understand the concept of IP blocking. Read through your boards Nathan. Apples and Oranges for example. Then look at the EAS opinion poll. Look at the post dates. And you still claim WE started the insults?

[*] They ignored attempts at parley through a number of methods, but my favorite was the moderator who claimed that my response to a moderator's response was in violation of the terms of the cease-fire. This essentially meant that he had thought it was okay to UNILATERALLY declare the feud over, without giving the other side to even respond to the terms of the cease-fire which they made deliberately to buy them time.

We were the ones who attempted to stop it the first time, and YOUR board kept bringing it back up!!! You, my friends, were the ones who didn't want peace. I don't want to hear that you tried to make peace, because you clearly did not. I do not want to hear your paranoid delusions that we made the cease fire to 'buy us time.' What would be the point of that? Nothing.

Every single fucking apology from your side was filled with snide coimments and insults. And don't even fucking dare to claim we kept it up, look at Razors now edited posts.

[*] They immediately locked their board, preventing members of our site from even discussing the matter with them.

Yes, we locked our board. We did it because your leader, Mike Wong, was promoting a board war! We took the fact that there were so many people were joining our board after this incident as a threat, and stopped registration.

Lets review, who invaded whos boards just to troll? oh, right that was you and Red and a few others who invaded here.

[*] They repeatedly edited and even deleted posts that made relevent points that were detrimental to EAS on their forum, which continued well after they were called on it. They did this for no reason other than to prevent their board members from understanding the truth.

We did delete posts. I personally did not, but those responsible were a bit hasty in doing this. There was no call to delete posts. But it was not to prevent board members from 'understanding the truth'.

Bullshit. What was it if not to block out the otherside of the story?

[*] They then claimed that they were morally superior, in spite of their repugnant behavior, because some of SD.net's denizens responded to their slandering of the board in GENERAL, as well as numerous posters and the founder of the board, without explanation.

- I don't even know how to start on this. We never claimed to be morally superiour.

Go reread some of the fucking posts. It is flat out said at one point

You have just as much right to your opinions as we do. And you must admit, the way your board acts, what with your blatheing on with profanity and vulgarities, it does not give you a very good look.

As oppossed to going to another board and blathering insults and profanities and then acting innocent. We admit to our ways, you don't. That shows we have the courage to stand by what we say, adn the integrity to own up to it. You lack both. Tell me, which is the worse board?

[*] They accused a member of this board of altering THEIR posts, even though he is not a moderator here and the original post could easily be found on the site.

- We never accused anybody of doing anything. It was claimed by one of our members that what was posted was not what he said. Since, seeing that he never had lied before, we decided to look into it further. I asked YOU if it had happened. If anything, I was giving you your fair chance to answer back and I was helping YOU.

It was directly implied that I had engaged in dishonesty. You could have looked it up and found out the truth, but that would not have let you get digs in, now would it?

[*] They deliberately distorted the truth, so as to paint SD.net as being "anti-Trek," and claimed that we refused to allow our members to enjoy Star Trek. Apparently the only way they can enjoy Star Trek is if it is not only subjectively superior as a form of entertainment, but ALSO technologically superior. They have not posted any evidence, whatsoever, of either of these arguments being reasonable.

- We never distorted any truth. We do not think that Trek is superiour to anything, in fact, it is lower than many things. When was it said that it was technologically superior? It never was. It is less technologically advanced, apparently, than Star Wars. SCN isnt even a SWvsST board, for crying out loud! We never even discuss SWvsST!!! Or STvs anything else, for that matter. If anybody distorts the truth in your statement, it was you.

Your moderators claim I started the invasion as "Troll Hater" even though Members of your site, including yourself, had already come here for the soel purpose of insulting us. On top of that, your moderator Felis claimed he did an IP trace back to the board to discover where I was from, something shown to be false because of my post and the nature of an IP.

How can you claim your people have not distorted the truth?

[*] Having repeatedly claimed the previous to be true of our board, they then claimed it was unfair of members here to flame people who ignored objective evidence despite the fact that they flamed this board REPEATEDLY for its perceived slights on SUBJECTIVE statements.

- As far as I know, flaming someone is NOT the way to get them to agree with you.

No, your way is to do it behind their backs.

Now, I can see that my arguments are futile, because you will continue to distort my words into something that will support your argument, no matter WHO is right. I am wasting my breath...

Projecting again. Your people are the ones distorting history, claiming we changed things, and lieing about what was said. We have not changed a thing here, and the posts are self evident.

I said it before, and I will say it again: It is disgusting that Darkstar is the most honest and reasonable person I see over there. If that consists of the trekkie style of debate, then obvioulsy the "evil warsies" have corrupted him more then he realizes.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-23 12:57am

Why are we even arguing this? They aren't going to listen, and we already know they are frigging annoying. Can't we get back to the depravity and perversity that used to encompass this board before we all became distracted? Please.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-23 12:58am

consequences wrote:Why are we even arguing this? They aren't going to listen, and we already know they are frigging annoying. Can't we get back to the depravity and perversity that used to encompass this board before we all became distracted? Please.

Unlikely.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-23 12:59am

Shinova wrote:
consequences wrote:Why are we even arguing this? They aren't going to listen, and we already know they are frigging annoying. Can't we get back to the depravity and perversity that used to encompass this board before we all became distracted? Please.
Unlikely.

And that sounds a lot like that other board's behavior. Just noticing.