US different attitude towards Japan and China(80s and now)

[PainRack]

During the eighties when Japan was in economic ascendency and the US was facing economic problems, the cultural view was that Japan was going to become the next economic giant, purchasing up US industries, towns and the like. Everyone was rushing to study the Japanese miracle and the movies and tv shows of that era protrayed the Japanese as evil people using unfair yen practices to suck out US money and trade, Japanese companies being the bad guys in Robocop or just taking over America in general.

There was also another trend towards oil rich sheiks playing with their wealth in the mass media.


So................ why isn't there such a similar trend towards China now? Why isn't there anyone rushing to study the Chinese miracle? Why isn't Chinese acquisition of assets overseas and in the US protrayed in the movies and tv as being "evil" or greedy bastards?

[The Grim Squeaker]

Well, Japan was overtaking the USA qualitively, with better technologyand processes, elements that can be copied or learned from. (Cars, Manufacture, robotics).
China has gained economic power through cheap labour, outsourcing & mass production (Although it probably has enough momentum now to keep the boom going on surging internal demand due to a growing middle class). The US/West willingly sent much of the work to China, you won't see many people feel threatened at the fact that the Chinese make cheaper toys, but the Japanese making robots, and better cars? The Russians better rockets? That's an intellectual/status threat, that isn't explained by "Cheap sweathouse workers".

We're going to start seeing a lot more of that in upcoming years I think, with China's research abse and strength in Green/efficient technologies & even India's increasing software/design accumen. (This has been discussed and bought up a lot. China has gone from copying, to imitating to outsoucing, to building & soon to innovating).

[LapsedPacifist]

I think that a lot of the panic about Japan in the 80s came out of having industries that Americans had had a lot of pride in, particularly Automobiles, utterly crushed by the Japanese.

While China has managed to take on a lot (a majority?) of manufacturing for the US, I think that the bulk of it is in industries that Americans don't think a lot of: the crap we buy at Walmart. Because of that, even though China, manufactures a lot of our stuff there's not the panic there was over the Japanese.

LP

[Shroom Man 777]

Wait. China, green and efficient technologies? What are you talking about, DAETH?

[LapsedPacifist]

I know that alternative energy, particularly wind is looked down on at SDN, but:

China actually has longterm alternative energy planning in place. When I was working for Vestas(Wind turbine company) they were putting both blade and nacelle factories in place there. They couldnt justify putting any Nacelle factories in the US because there was/is no long term political commitment towards alternative energy.

LP

[The Grim Squeaker]

Wait. China, green and efficient technologies? What are you talking about, DAETH?

The massive pollution there is a big incentive for the development of the industry, there's a world leading company in super efficient cooling piping/technology of some kind that's in China, and with their ability to focus funds on it, and current desire to gain a technological/high tech ability... The exact name of the company, and what it does is in an article I have back home, in the latest issue of Wired. (I'm currently working ina conference, so I can't check it).

[Oskuro]

Maybe I should point out at the likes of Command & Conquer: Generals, or Battlefield 2, examples of media items that portray China as opponents to the almighty US of A.

[hongi]

Don't forget 24.

[PainRack]

Maybe I should point out at the likes of Command & Conquer: Generals, or Battlefield 2, examples of media items that portray China as opponents to the almighty US of A.

Errrr... Command & Conquer General had the Chinese and the US semi-cooperating, and it ended up on a good note for the Chinese in Zero Hour when the US withdrew from Europe, leaving China the dominant power. That would had played into the meme........ except that the Chinese were protrayed as heroes and good guys in Zero Hour.(Oddly enough, the Chinese didn't allow the game to be sold in China. Go fish)

Battlefield 2 simply protrays them as opponents, as opposed to the hype over Japanese villians in the 80s WINNING the USA, requiring a stereotypical hero to stand up against them. Nowhere were the Chinese depicted as superior. The Japanese were protrayed as both villaneous and "superior", yet amoral.

Its just odd, because many of the same complaints against the Chinese were exact copies of those made against the Japanese. Undervalued Yuan/Yen, unfair trade practices, dumping, the right-wing media and news has played up on this. But the cultural media?

[Oskuro]

I know the trend is not the exact same, and I'm betting that, in order to sell their media on the Chinese market, they'll tone things down a bit.

In all fairness, I never got to play the C&C:G/ZH campaigns, but the units themselves are quite critical with China (propaganda towers anyone?), and they reinforce certain stereotypes. No wonder China banned the game.

[Raw Shark]

Everyone was rushing to study the Japanese miracle and the movies and tv shows of that era protrayed the Japanese as evil people using unfair yen practices to suck out US money and trade, Japanese companies being the bad guys in Robocop or just taking over America in general.

Not that I disagree with your assessment of 1980's depictions of Japan in general, but the specific evil corporation portrayed in Robocop is called Omni Consumer Products and shown to be mainly lead by aged white men.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Everyone was rushing to study the Japanese miracle and the movies and tv shows of that era protrayed the Japanese as evil people using unfair yen practices to suck out US money and trade, Japanese companies being the bad guys in Robocop or just taking over America in general.

Not that I disagree with your assessment of 1980's depictions of Japan in general, but the specific evil corporation portrayed in Robocop is called Omni Consumer Products and shown to be mainly lead by aged white men.

Robocop 2 has evil Japanese samurai robots.

[Darth Raptor]

In all fairness, I never got to play the C&C:G/ZH campaigns, but the units themselves are quite critical with China (propaganda towers anyone?), and they reinforce certain stereotypes. No wonder China banned the game.

The same is true for the USA, but at the end of the day, the Sino-American hegemony is portrayed in an overwhelmingly positive light. Yeah, they're both really cavalier with the collateral damage and seem to have waived some international laws (assuming they existed in that timeline), but it's still abundantly clear that they're the Good Guys. Especially in contrast with the cartoonishly, mustache-twirlingly villainous GLA. The Chinese government could have just as easily coopted the game for a propaganda tool ala America's Army as banned it.

[Gustav32Vasa]

Not that I disagree with your assessment of 1980's depictions of Japan in general, but the specific evil corporation portrayed in Robocop is called Omni Consumer Products and shown to be mainly lead by aged white men.

Robocop 2 has evil Japanese samurai robots.[/quote]

No.

[KlavoHunter]

Robocop 2 has evil Japanese samurai robots.

Actually, that was Robocop 3.

which didn't happen oh god

[Ma Deuce]

The Chinese government could have just as easily coopted the game for a propaganda tool ala America's Army as banned it.

Indeed, and as I recall the specific reason they banned it was because it portrayed certain Chinese landmarks getting blow'd up. There is precedent for other countries taking offense to how their landmarks are portrayed in media, even within the C&C series. Ever wonder why the "Paris Tower" in Red Alert 2 did not have the same name or appearance as it's real life counterpart?

[Sidewinder]

Its just odd, because many of the same complaints against the Chinese were exact copies of those made against the Japanese. Undervalued Yuan/Yen, unfair trade practices, dumping, the right-wing media and news has played up on this. But the cultural media?

Read the bullshit Tom Clancy wrote after the Cold War ended, e.g., 'The Bear and the Dragon'. Plenty of racist and unrealistic portrayals there, including a doctor planning to abort a child because the parents didn't receive permission to have a second child. (I LIVED IN China for several months. The government does NOT have a doctor sit in front of a pregnant woman's groin, ready to inject formaldehyde in the baby's head the moment it's visible, if the parents violate the One Child policy. The government simply fines the parents or, if they have government jobs, cuts their pay.)

[PainRack]

Read the bullshit Tom Clancy wrote after the Cold War ended, e.g., 'The Bear and the Dragon'. Plenty of racist and unrealistic portrayals there, including a doctor planning to abort a child because the parents didn't receive permission to have a second child. (I LIVED IN China for several months. The government does NOT have a doctor sit in front of a pregnant woman's groin, ready to inject formaldehyde in the baby's head the moment it's visible, if the parents violate the One Child policy. The government simply fines the parents or, if they have government jobs, cuts their pay.)

Oh....
I should go and see whether the library has the book then. I haven't read any of Clancy crap for a long time.

[Kane Starkiller]

Speaking of "The Bear and the Dragon" here is a hilarious review of the book:Link
An excerpt:

The book is "The Bear and the Dragon". It is the story of China, which is led by psychotic brain-damaged panda bears, and the United States, which is led by Jesus Reagan (his name is actually Jack Ryan, but it's more fun to think of him as Jesus Reagan, since that's who he's modeled after). Russia's also in it, but only to serve as the "good foreigners" that get attacked, giving the USA moral justification to kill fucking everyone and his brother.

Here's the loose plot summary.

Russia discovers it has the world's largest oil reserves and gold mine on the same day. This is the most realistic event in the book.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I know the trend is not the exact same, and I'm betting that, in order to sell their media on the Chinese market, they'll tone things down a bit.

In all fairness, I never got to play the C&C:G/ZH campaigns, but the units themselves are quite critical with China (propaganda towers anyone?), and they reinforce certain stereotypes. No wonder China banned the game.

Really, they should've released it and then allowed Chinese gamers and programmers to release the International "China Edition" mod, with the U.S.'s intelligence always being bad, having to build Fox News stations and towers in order to maintain the war effort, and having to possess local oil and gas resources primarily for finance.

[ray245]

I know the trend is not the exact same, and I'm betting that, in order to sell their media on the Chinese market, they'll tone things down a bit.

In all fairness, I never got to play the C&C:G/ZH campaigns, but the units themselves are quite critical with China (propaganda towers anyone?), and they reinforce certain stereotypes. No wonder China banned the game.

Really, they should've released it and then allowed Chinese gamers and programmers to release the International "China Edition" mod, with the U.S.'s intelligence always being bad, having to build Fox News stations and towers in order to maintain the war effort, and having to possess local oil and gas resources primarily for finance.

Lol...I will wonder what will the critics reaction be...

[TheFeniX]

During the eighties when Japan was in economic ascendency and the US was facing economic problems, the cultural view was that Japan was going to become the next economic giant, purchasing up US industries, towns and the like. Everyone was rushing to study the Japanese miracle and the movies and tv shows of that era protrayed the Japanese as evil people using unfair yen practices to suck out US money and trade, Japanese companies being the bad guys in Robocop or just taking over America in general.

I don't believe OCP was taken over by the Japanese megacorps until Rococop 3. In fact, it was a pretty big plot-point brought up by Rip Torn's character.

A better example would probably be "Rising Sun."

All the supposed "under-handed dealing" and weird shit that was "not true" about the Japanese businessmen was alluded to being completely true by Tia Carrera's character towards the end of the movie. It was more to show that even though the Japanese were weird and "back-water" (shunning Carrera's character for being disfigured and 'OMG they bow to each other!"), they were just as corrupt as American businessmen. Oh and it showed that Wesley Snipes was, in fact, black and Sean Connery was old and white.

[Sea Skimmer]

I know that alternative energy, particularly wind is looked down on at SDN, but:

China actually has longterm alternative energy planning in place. When I was working for Vestas(Wind turbine company) they were putting both blade and nacelle factories in place there. They couldnt justify putting any Nacelle factories in the US because there was/is no long term political commitment towards alternative energy.

LP

Good for them on the wind power. They’ve also built over 400 coal power plants in just the last eight years, most of which have few or in some cases no pollution controls at all.

[Ypoknons]

So................ why isn't there such a similar trend towards China now? Why isn't there anyone rushing to study the Chinese miracle? Why isn't Chinese acquisition of assets overseas and in the US protrayed in the movies and tv as being "evil" or greedy bastards?

A very part of the Chinese boom is a capital starved country finally getting the capital, allowing it to grow at a high rate. Productivity is not specular, especially not in the way Japanese techniques applied to America in the 80s. There were certainly good government decisions, more to the interest of other developing countries.

[Raw Shark]

I don't believe OCP was taken over by the Japanese megacorps until Rococop 3. In fact, it was a pretty big plot-point brought up by Rip Torn's character.

Yep, which came out in '93. The Robocop franchise left the Japanese alone in the 80's.