nBSG Episode 401: "He That Believeth In Me"

[Gil Hamilton]

Especialy because it would be a trivial matter for whatever/whoever "returned" her in this new ship to make it look weathered and in poor repair, as it was when last seen by the Colonials.

I don't know, would it have been? Chances are they didn't have her old Viper to make take notes from, what with it blowing up. They might simply have stuffed her in the only fighter they had available and sent her back. After all, who ever kidnapped her might have been lucky to be able to recover one Viper Mk II TOTAL, given they weren't in production by the time of the Cylon attack (remember they were in Galactica's museum when the Cylons attacked) and much of the Colonial infrastructure was blown away. They might not have had a choice in what they sent Kara back in.

[Uraniun235]

^Because maybe Roslin thinks that Kara would lead them to be captured and give the cylons coordinates back to the fleet?

That's solvable; wrap her up in a straightjacket, and make sure whoever goes with her is cool with self-destructing before allowing themselves to be captured. Okay, Starbuck, tell us where we should jump next.

But even if they didn't go with that, that's understandable - the real problem is that it wasn't even brought up during the episode at all, which makes the characters appear foolish (or the writers appear lazy). I'm still laying odds on a Really Tense Showdown next episode, with them eventually having the Bright Idea of sending her and a couple of keepers off in a Raptor.

[Thanas]

^Because maybe Roslin thinks that Kara would lead them to be captured and give the cylons coordinates back to the fleet?

That's solvable; wrap her up in a straightjacket, and make sure whoever goes with her is cool with self-destructing before allowing themselves to be captured. Okay, Starbuck, tell us where we should jump next.

You will of course demonstrate that the fleet has a ready supply of capable Kamikazes at hand?

[Steven Snyder]

I don't know, would it have been? Chances are they didn't have her old Viper to make take notes from, what with it blowing up. They might simply have stuffed her in the only fighter they had available and sent her back.

Well, the Viper that she came back with did have the same Tail number as stated by Chief Tyrol.
So the obvious conclusion is that they were mindful enough to replicate her Viper and give it the same number. As I recall even her IFF transponder was giving the correct information as Adama had it checked twice (need to review that one).

So whoever it was went through the trouble of recreating her Viper, down to the tail number but intentionally didn't roughen it's appearance.

Here is what I am dying to know...does Starbuck have both of her Ovaries? Did whoever it was not only recreate her Viper, but did they also recreate her? I have a feeling that Starbuck perished along with her Viper and whoever it was built a whole new Starbuck and a whole new Viper.

[tim31]

Raptors are supposed to be expendable - that's what they are there for, and are used for dangerous stuff all the time.

What??

Big difference between 'high risk assesment versus necessity' and 'raptors are expendable'.

Even if they had the time to offload Pegasus's manufacturing plants before she rickroll'd that base ship, I doubt those plants would be tooled for Raptors, which would have much better electronics than a Mark VII.

[Gil Hamilton]

Well, the Viper that she came back with did have the same Tail number as stated by Chief Tyrol.

So the obvious conclusion is that they were mindful enough to replicate her Viper and give it the same number. As I recall even her IFF transponder was giving the correct information as Adama had it checked twice (need to review that one).

So whoever it was went through the trouble of recreating her Viper, down to the tail number but intentionally didn't roughen it's appearance.

Here is what I am dying to know...does Starbuck have both of her Ovaries? Did whoever it was not only recreate her Viper, but did they also recreate her? I have a feeling that Starbuck perished along with her Viper and whoever it was built a whole new Starbuck and a whole new Viper.

They could get her tail number from photographs of the ship. It's much easier to paint on a new tail number than it is to recreate a whole new ship. After all, it's not like the blueprints to MAKE a new Viper Mk II are laying around. Chances are they may not even exist anymore. So how could they manufacture a ship identical to an outmoded Colonial fighter?

Besides, I'm pretty sure that Kara's fighter actually registered "Unknown" on the Galactica's monitors. It certainly did on Lee's, because he specifically states that he's picked up an unknown fighter and goes to check it out at the end of Crossroads. They checked Kara's voice on recognition software for certain, but I don't recall them talking about her plane. Remember, the fighter only had to be convincing enough to get her back on the ship to do whatever she has to do. It doesn't have to be a perfect ruse. Giving it dings and scratches (particularly if the Colonials kept track of them) wouldn't help that much since the very fact that she turned up after being for all appearances dead (having exploded in Apollo's presence) already red flags her.

[Cecelia5578]

If it was the Cylons (or a group of Cylons) that took Starbuck to Earth, then might they have a leftover Viper or two they captured during the first Cylon War?

[Thanas]

You will of course demonstrate that the fleet has a ready supply of capable Kamikazes at hand?

Raptors are supposed to be expendable - that's what they are there for, and are used for dangerous stuff all the time.

I was annoyed that they didn't mention the possibility either - when watching the episode, I was yelling at the TV: "Just send a frakking raptor!"

But they have the rest of the season to pad out, so they won't do that for a long time.

And you will get suicide-happy pilots from where, exactly?

[Admiral Valdemar]

And you will get suicide-happy pilots from where, exactly?

[Kane Starkiller]

Regarding this all religion angle. Anyone remember the last sci-fi show Moore was on with a religion angle? The Deep Space 9? The religious shit became fucking unwatchable in the final few episodes. You have space battle, ships blowing up, the fate of Alpha Quadrant on the line and suddenly it cuts to that silly Bajoran Pope woman and firecaves bullshit.
By now I'm really worried we are heading for a similar finale with Galactice: some kind of "real world" showdown around Earth mixed up with religious shit that doesn't really make any sense.

[Uraniun235]

You will of course demonstrate that the fleet has a ready supply of capable Kamikazes at hand?

Snippy, aren't we? Do we have a Battlestar Livejournal writer among us?

Anyway, you're framing it inappropriately; your questions assume that the mission will be a one-way trip, when in fact this is not certain at all. And to this end, there are pilots willing to take on high-risk ventures: the volunteer Raptor mission to Caprica at the end of Season 2 is evidence.

Now, I'm not saying every one of those pilots would be eager to volunteer for this mission, as it's not wholly analogous. But are you telling me there isn't one qualified Raptor crew who would be willing to take this assignment, even if only to ensure that they're not skipping merrily past Earth?

And again, even if there isn't, I would be cool with that. What I'm not cool with is that the idea isn't even brought up once during the episode. All it would have taken would have been a couple of additional lines in the conversation between Starbuck and Adama where she says "Frak at least let me take out a Raptor" and he says "no I can't risk my Raptors they be scarce". Alas.

My money is on them sending Kara off in a Raptor in the next episode just so that they could string out a "tense showdown" for the cliffhanger ending to this episode.

[Old Plympto]

You have space battle, ships blowing up, the fate of Alpha Quadrant on the line and suddenly it cuts to that silly Bajoran Pope woman and firecaves bullshit.

Aren't those called popettes?

But yeah, that's just about what I mean in my previous post.

Also, this "god" the headSix might be talking about might be an AI. All this has happened before and will happen again. Perhaps everything is a simulated reality run by an AI, which might be (or not) the Cylon god and the head entities are avatars of this AI. The purpose of this AI might be to continually repeat this Cylon holocaust scenario with variations each time.

Which might explain why they speak in current Earth terminology, wear jackets and ties, recreate Starbuck and her Viper fresh, etc. (sudo apt-get install starbuck)

[ray245]

Hmm...I am thinking that starbuck was rescued by the ship of lights, after all, Ron did said that they will be reintroduced in season 4.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

That's funny, because I remember Moore--quite recently, even--saying that he's not going to be using stuff like the Beings of Light and Count Iblis from the original series.

[tim31]

Yeah, especially since EJO will walk if crazy aliens or higher beings are thrown in.

[tim31]

Yeah, I'll pay that. Although I subscribe to the notion that the Cylons are just trying to let the Colonials find Earth first.

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah, I'll pay that. Although I subscribe to the notion that the Cylons are just trying to let the Colonials find Earth first.

Eh? Why would they do that? They want to live there, and make it apart of their glorious future with God. And frankly, we know they don't want the fleet to get there first - otherwise, why would they have had that stand off over the Eye of Jupiter? It seems clear to me that they don't really want Colonials to get there at all.

[tim31]

The feeling I get is of a cat and mouse game. I know it's silly Ford, but I keep coming back to it. Throughout the series no-one has really speculated what they expect to find on Earth; they're probably hoping for a similar level of tech, but I'm personally expecting the planet to be void of human life.

[neoolong]

The use of All Along the Watchtower basically means that Earth had to be us, at least up to 1967. And that has to mean something. Otherwise it is pretty nonsensical and ridiculous to use a recognizable song.

It's either us, or us in the future. Whether there is anything there by the time the Fleet gets to Earth is another question, but at some point, it really would have to have been us right?

Interestingly enough, the actor who played Tyrol was also in I, Robot. That would actually be kind of funny if they landed there. He is a Cylon after all, and bang, there's another copy.

[CaptJodan]

It's a wiki, so take as such, but...

The song is not intended to indicate that the Colonials have picked up an Earth communication. Series executive producer Ron D. Moore considers the song to be an invention created by a Colonial citizen in a curious parallel to what had or will develop on Earth. The series creators have intentionally avoided citing whether Battlestar Galactica occurs in the the series' Earth's past, present, or future. Moore offers that "things that happened on Galactica were tied into our reality here on Earth in some way, in the past or the future, or some other connection"

I take that to mean that there really is no assurance there that it means that they are us or later.

[Uraniun235]

The use of All Along the Watchtower basically means that Earth had to be us, at least up to 1967. And that has to mean something. Otherwise it is pretty nonsensical and ridiculous to use a recognizable song.

It's either us, or us in the future. Whether there is anything there by the time the Fleet gets to Earth is another question, but at some point, it really would have to have been us right?

Interestingly enough, the actor who played Tyrol was also in I, Robot. That would actually be kind of funny if they landed there. He is a Cylon after all, and bang, there's another copy.

Here's the relevant quote from Bear McCreary's blog:

I happened to catch Ron Moore in the hallway at Universal and, in a brief conversation, got everything I needed to know. I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters’ universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any “Earthly” versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others. The arrangement needed to sound like a pop song that belonged in the Galactica universe, not our own.

[neoolong]

That doesn't exactly fill me with hope for a good explanation. Common artistic inspiration is one thing, pulling damn near the same song is another, even if the source doesn't exist in universe. I think that explanation is something of a stretch that strains credibility. I like the series a lot, so I'll go with it.

I just hope that Ron Moore has come up with a good idea for the end of the series.

[Thanas]

You will of course demonstrate that the fleet has a ready supply of capable Kamikazes at hand?

Snippy, aren't we? Do we have a Battlestar Livejournal writer among us?

What is Battlestar Livejournal?

Anyway, you're framing it inappropriately; your questions assume that the mission will be a one-way trip, when in fact this is not certain at all. And to this end, there are pilots willing to take on high-risk ventures: the volunteer Raptor mission to Caprica at the end of Season 2 is evidence.

There is a difference between a high-risk military mission with a clearly defined goal, plenty of intelligence and to top it off, a defector on their side and basically sending a single raptor without any kind of backup, no intelligence available and a mumbling psycho to nowhere without knowing if her misterious "ability" will hold up. Especially when one saw said psycho explode on gun camera footage.

Furthermore, we do not know the range of the raptors. For all we know, Earth is far outside their range.

Now, I'm not saying every one of those pilots would be eager to volunteer for this mission, as it's not wholly analogous. But are you telling me there isn't one qualified Raptor crew who would be willing to take this assignment, even if only to ensure that they're not skipping merrily past Earth?

I do not know. But then again, I wasn't making the claim that they could have send a raptor.

And again, even if there isn't, I would be cool with that. What I'm not cool with is that the idea isn't even brought up once during the episode. All it would have taken would have been a couple of additional lines in the conversation between Starbuck and Adama where she says "Frak at least let me take out a Raptor" and he says "no I can't risk my Raptors they be scarce". Alas.

I agree, that would have been nice.

My money is on them sending Kara off in a Raptor in the next episode just so that they could string out a "tense showdown" for the cliffhanger ending to this episode.

Well, if they do that, I stand corrected.

[xerex]

That doesn't exactly fill me with hope for a good explanation. Common artistic inspiration is one thing, pulling damn near the same song is another, even if the source doesn't exist in universe. I think that explanation is something of a stretch that strains credibility. I like the series a lot, so I'll go with it.

.

you have to sepearate yourself from the story. We the viewer dont exist in the BSG universe. OUR "viewercentric" cultural references dont exist.

So there's this song that we the viewer recognize as "all along the watchtower" by Dylan. but in the BSG universe dylan doesnt exist. Watchtower is just a song. the song the the 5 hear. it has as much meaning as if they heard the tonal sounds from Close Encounter.

We hear them speaking English, using East European firearms (so I'm told). Doesnt mean Galacitca landed in Poland earlier and picked up some guns.

[Phantasee]

Not to dispute your crazy theory Valdemar (heck, I could see them somehow pulling a big fake-out on this), but then how do you explain Anders' eye glowing red?

I thought it was a reflection, both from the Raider's eye, and also a "reflection" of his inner self. Or some 'deep' meaning like that. But the actual explanation for the physical red glow being a reflection off the Raider.