Mutant stem rust may cause a wheat supply crisis

[Admiral Valdemar]

Why don't they just out and say it? Really, they could get plenty of stories out of pointing fingers at folks regardless of responsibility, couldn't they?

And forgive my ignorance, but how are their interests on the line?

A panic leads to a breakdown in economic functioning, usually. These commercially funded stations rely on their adverts for income, as their clients rely on being able to rely on the stations advertising reasonably well (even if some publicity is bad publicity). Break that down, and no one is happy. The likes of NBC, I believe, are owned by Disney, so anything that affects a certain theme park may not get headline news.

It's just general bias, which is evident in more places than others. The BBC, even, is accused of liberal bias at times and Reuters too, though these are less clear cut cases.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

How is saying "My generation has had their dreams stolen, people." not a valid complaint?

Because every generation blames the one before, and this goes nowhere.

Many of these problems were visible in the 1970s and people did nothing. I think that qualifies as "fucking with the dreams of future generations".

Only if they were valid dreams in the first place. Even with his dream for a life of leisure 'stolen', he still has much brighter prospects than half the population of the world. It's called perspective. Look into it.

When a person reads about these subjects, why is it 'entitlement' to say "Seriously, how did they fuck that up?". A person expects/hopes their future will be better, if not the same, because of the previous 200 years of progress. Then one finds out that problems that have been neglected for decades will pulverize that idea. All this because previous generations (generalization) didn't want a mild inconvenience. And now people have to deal with it all at once.

Yeah, that doesn't seem worth being angry over.

It didn't come across as angry. It came across as whiney, emo self-pity.

Besides, people become angry far easier over the mentioned loss of wealth/future than seemingly 'academic' environmental and energy issues. And anger makes people do things. And since barely anything is getting done, why not indulge in it?

Why indulge it? If he's just venting, then there's a place for that. I don't see anything useful in whiney soundbites like My generation has had their dreams stolen, people.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

I once had a dream of finding a good job, finding a nice girl and living a happy family life with lots of reading, writing and a series of interesting hobby projects. I didn't think it was that ambitious.

Now I worry about finding a job, full stop. Forget leisure time, I'm probably going to have to work like a dog in the future just to make ends meet. My generation has had their dreams stolen, people.

Boo-fucking-hoo. There are plenty of real problems to worry about instead of whether someone from the Entitlement Generation is entitled to his entitlements.

I'm really hoping my sarcasm meter is broken today.

Yes, because a dream of gainful employment, a decent place to live, a family, and a little entertainment is soooooo fucking unreasonable...

He was dreaming about gainful employment? Working as a construction labourer is gainful employment. Working in a service job is gainful employment. He clearly wasn't dreaming about that kind of work. Seems like he was dreaming of a life of leisure. Rather than whining that his dreams were stolen, he would do better whining that he was lied to.

Yeah, it IS perfectly reasonable to be pissed that your life will be harder - not just as hard, but HARDER - than prior generations.

Demonstrate that this is the case, please (i.e. that his life will be harder than the prior generation). And even if it is, why should he be entitled to an easier life than the prior generation?

It seems that most people these days expect to go to university, graduate, and get a professional job. News flash: NOT EVERY ONE CAN WORK IN A PROFESSION! There will always be a need for trades, labour, and unskilled workers. The people that wind up "settling" for those jobs have had their dreams stolen? The "American Dream" only works for a few people because it is built on the backs of the rest. That's life. Young people need to learn that.

And when my 5yo daugther is screaming in agony and the doctors can't figure out what's wrong, I can't make myself give a shit about idiotic woe-is-me whining. Perspective.

Yes, there are problems. Do something about it! Get active! Contact your governmental representatives, and get others to do so too (yes, politicians really do listen if enough people speak out).

We are ALL paying for the short-sightedness and greed of previous generations.

[Ryan Thunder]

How is saying "My generation has had their dreams stolen, people." not a valid complaint?

Because every generation blames the one before, and this goes nowhere.

I have an economic crisis, an environmental crisis, and an energy crisis to deal with in my future because of your collective refusal to acknowledge the problems that led up to these crises.

I'm not mad because my 'dreams have been stolen'. I'm mad because you ignored your problems and dumped them and their consequences on me and my peers.

Clear?

[General Trelane (Retired)]

I have an economic crisis, an environmental crisis, and an energy crisis to deal with in my future because of your collective refusal to acknowledge the problems that led up to these crises.

I'm not mad because my 'dreams have been stolen'. I'm mad because you ignored your problems and dumped them and their consequences on me and my peers.

Clear?

That you're a whiney-assed idiot, yes.

As just one example (regarding the energy crisis): I bicycle commute to work. In Edmonton. All winter. We keep our house thermostat set to 17C and wear warmer clothes. We did a major house renovation to improve efficiency (and will be paying it off for a long time). I could go on, and it's not just me. And I haven't even touched on the activism side such as advocating for Kyoto. In Alberta. So where's that collective refusal to acknowledge the problems? How have I dumped the consequences off on you? Buck up!

This reminds me of a Calvin & Hobbes strip:

Calvin: I've decided I want to be a millionaire when I grow up!
Dad: Well you'll have to work pretty hard to get a million dollars.
Calvin: No, I won't. You will.
Dad: Me?
Calvin: I just want to inherit it!

[Ryan Thunder]

Clear?

That you're a whiney-assed idiot, yes.

Hey, asshat, in case you hadn't noticed, I'm not the one who's a member of the generation that's been warned about a slew of problems, had the power to do something about them, and then ignored them until it was too fucking late to avert a crisis.

I haven't even had the opportunity to do shit yet. Get the plank out of your collective eye before pointing out the sliver in mine.

So where's that collective refusal to acknowledge the problems?

You are exceptional. If everybody else had acknowledged the problems and done something about them, we wouldn't be having these crises now, would we?

Buck up!

You notice how the world economy's going in the shitter? How the price of oil is going up into the stratosphere and there's nothing to replace it? How there's so much pollution in the atmosphere that I see haze in the fucking spring? How there's a food crisis on the horizon too? Yeah.

So don't fucking tell me to buck up.

This reminds me of a Calvin & Hobbes strip:

Calvin: I've decided I want to be a millionaire when I grow up!
Dad: Well you'll have to work pretty hard to get a million dollars.
Calvin: No, I won't. You will.
Dad: Me?
Calvin: I just want to inherit it!

Oh yeah, that's a perfect analogy. Because averting a fuel crisis that I can do absolutely shit all about is totally like just handing me a million dollars.

Imagine having a family house. Your parents and grandparents refused to maintain it. It was well-built, but gradually, the abuse takes its toll. It happens slowly enough that they don't really notice. It becomes dilapidated and grimy. The stoves don't work right, the heating's shot to hell, and the fridge doesn't refrigerate. A friend warns them of the mounting repair costs, but they refuse to believe them. When they retire, they hand over the responsibility to you and your siblings, saying "It needs work, but that's your problem now."

Of course, it's not as bad in this analogy, because most folks would have simply left and gone to live some where else ages ago. Unfortunately, I can't simply go and buy a better World to live in.

So thanks for fucking up.

[Big Phil]

Ryan Thunder - shut the fuck up you whiny sack of shit. Go emo another fucking thread with your bitchfest. There's lots of people that can be blamed for the situation everyone faces today; you trying to dump it on Trelane's lap is just a bitch move and unworthy of this board.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

I haven't even had the opportunity to do shit yet.

Wrong. You're too busy whining that you're missing the opportunity that is there.

If everybody else had acknowledged the problems and done something about them, we wouldn't be having these crises now, would we?

Not if they just kept blaming the generation before.

You notice how the world economy's going in the shitter? How the price of oil is going up into the stratosphere and there's nothing to replace it? How there's so much pollution in the atmosphere that I see haze in the fucking spring? How there's a food crisis on the horizon too? Yeah.

You forgot to consider the growing consumerism in the world's largest populations (especially China)--they want the lifestyles that we in the developed west take for granted, and it's already unsustainable. There will be drastic changes in the future. There have to be.

So don't fucking tell me to buck up.

Whether I tell you or not, you'll still need to buck up. I don't see much of a choice on that matter. We all will. So buck up.

Oh yeah, that's a perfect analogy. Because averting a fuel crisis that I can do absolutely shit all about is totally like just handing me a million dollars.

Imagine having a family house. Your parents and grandparents refused to maintain it. It was well-built, but gradually, the abuse takes its toll. It happens slowly enough that they don't really notice. It becomes dilapidated and grimy. The stoves don't work right, the heating's shot to hell, and the fridge doesn't refrigerate. A friend warns them of the mounting repair costs, but they refuse to believe them. When they retire, they hand over the responsibility to you and your siblings, saying "It needs work, but that's your problem now."

Of course, it's not as bad in this analogy, because most folks would have simply left and gone to live some where else ages ago. Unfortunately, I can't simply go and buy a better World to live in.

Funny thing is, I bought just such a house. And fixed it up. What's that about analogies?

So thanks for fucking up.

My pleasure. Really, it was no big deal.

All kidding aside, how old are you? You sound 13, maybe 14. That's not too young to get politically active. Seriously, get started. No single person can fix the world's problems, but it starts with you and me.

[Gigaliel]

Ryan Thunder - shut the fuck up you whiny sack of shit. Go emo another fucking thread with your bitchfest. There's lots of people that can be blamed for the situation everyone faces today; you trying to dump it on Trelane's lap is just a bitch move and unworthy of this board.

Not that I'm capable of reading Ryan's mind, but I'm quite sure that he was using a plural 'you' and was generalizing. This is because he says that Trelane was exceptional and an outlier right in the goddamn post.

I'm still not sure why using a personal tone suddenly makes him a whiny ass. Why is that? Because the crises he's talking about are for everyone. Sure, your average suburban resident's life will still be better than Third World Shithole X. But, everyone is going to get thrashed to some extent. For example, just because a friend has cancer does not suddenly invalidate that my cold is making me miserable.

As for the generational issue, this is important because we don't want to repeat the past's mistakes of 'ignoring important shit'. Criticizing your predecesors is how this is done, typically.

Mind you, we're ignoring the same problems right now. So, lesson not learned.

Also, I am confused how pointing why people should be angry about X is apparently illegal unless you're personally involved in various activist groups. Otherwise you're a whiny asshole. I mean seriously, people point out societal problems all the time without going on a crusade. What's the minimum until you can talk about it?

I would also note society's ability to solve problems is limited by the problem being obvious enough for people to give a damn or getting a rich person to notice and pay for ads. Wonderful prospects.

Driving less and being more environmental only goes so far. Mostly because other people will use resources you don't. Jevons paradox and all that.

[Big Phil]

Snip

I see four types of people posting in these economic/peak oil/food shortage threads:

1. Sanctimonious "I told you so" assholes who just looove being right and blame everyone else for the world's problems (even when they themselves have just been lucky and are doing the exact same thing they criticize everyone else for doing).
2. Whiny emo kiss-asses who come in screeching about how we're all completely fucked and asking Poster Type #1 how they should plan for their future and blaming everyone else for the world's problems.
3. Realists who are doing what they can - saving more, spending less, bicycling to work, or just trying to make the best of their own situation.
4. Reality deniers - every thing's fine, nothing is wrong, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

You'll notice I didn't just jump in lambasting everyone who's posted about the prospect of food shortages - I only called out the whiny, self-absorbed shit for brains who's contributed nothing to this thread but whining and blame.

Valdemar's constant "I told you so" posts are also fucking irritating, but I also think (much as I hate to say it) that he's correct regarding the economy, peak oil, and food shortages - things are going to get worse before they get better and the current economic model is unsustainable. AV also contributes substantively to these discussions, and doesn't make whiny "we're all fucked and it's the Baby Boomers' fault" posts.

See the difference between Ryan Thunder and AV? They both irritate me on a personal level, but I respect AV's intelligent, well thought out and researched arguments, whereas Ryan Thunder's whining is nothing but a waste of bandwidth. It doesn't take a genius to understand we're where we are now because of decision made in the past, and it doesn't take any brains to point fingers - it does take intelligence to identify root causes, anticipate the effects, and suggest solutions.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Valdemar's constant "I told you so" posts are also fucking irritating, but I also think (much as I hate to say it) that he's correct regarding the economy, peak oil, and food shortages - things are going to get worse before they get better and the current economic model is unsustainable. AV also contributes substantively to these discussions, and doesn't make whiny "we're all fucked and it's the Baby Boomers' fault" posts.

See the difference between Ryan Thunder and AV? They both irritate me on a personal level, but I respect AV's intelligent, well thought out and researched arguments, whereas Ryan Thunder's whining is nothing but a waste of bandwidth. It doesn't take a genius to understand we're where we are now because of decision made in the past, and it doesn't take any brains to point fingers - it does take intelligence to identify root causes, anticipate the effects, and suggest solutions.

Thank you, I love you too. And if it makes any difference, I should partly fall into the "Realist" category if only because I am frugal and save cash and the environment where I can afford to. The pessimist side takes over given even on the days I wake up and feel I can't stomach this shit any more, I have to acknowledge that I'm not reading alarmist propaganda, but the future of our world unfolding.

I do tend to say "fuck the baby boomers too", but that's more an argument with my father. I see no reason to post it online when it's clear the previous generation, for all the mollycoddling it's given us, has also denied us their vision of a future. I don't expect anyone alive today to have acted differently, so it's academic anyway and adds nothing.

Just so I don't post in a topic like this without treading new ground:

Rising food prices could spark worldwide unrest and threaten political stability, the UN's top humanitarian official warned yesterday after two days of rioting in Egypt over the doubling of prices of basic foods in a year and protests in other parts of the world.

Sir John Holmes, undersecretary general for humanitarian affairs and the UN's emergency relief coordinator, told a conference in Dubai that escalating prices would trigger protests and riots in vulnerable nations. He said food scarcity and soaring fuel prices would compound the damaging effects of global warming. Prices have risen 40% on average globally since last summer.

[Ryan Thunder]

Snip

I see four types of people posting in these economic/peak oil/food shortage threads:

1. Sanctimonious "I told you so" assholes who just looove being right and blame everyone else for the world's problems (even when they themselves have just been lucky and are doing the exact same thing they criticize everyone else for doing).
2. Whiny emo kiss-asses who come in screeching about how we're all completely fucked and asking Poster Type #1 how they should plan for their future and blaming everyone else for the world's problems.
3. Realists who are doing what they can - saving more, spending less, bicycling to work, or just trying to make the best of their own situation.
4. Reality deniers - every thing's fine, nothing is wrong, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

You'll notice I didn't just jump in lambasting everyone who's posted about the prospect of food shortages - I only called out the whiny, self-absorbed shit for brains who's contributed nothing to this thread but whining and blame.

I'm a realist. I just bitch about my problems, too.

[Winston Blake]

He was dreaming about gainful employment? Working as a construction labourer is gainful employment. Working in a service job is gainful employment. He clearly wasn't dreaming about that kind of work. Seems like he was dreaming of a life of leisure.

Fuck you. Maybe instead of launching into a canned tirade against 'kids these days', you should've actually tried to see where I was coming from. The idea of having weekends or Sundays free to work on hobbies is my idea of heaven. I'm working my ass off every day to finish my degree. I do this because I see a future where my life is my own outside 9-to-5 weekdays.

Rather than whining that his dreams were stolen, he would do better whining that he was lied to.

I don't see a difference.

Anyway, I thought the italics and 'people' on the end of that little quip would have shown I was being facetious.

Demonstrate that this is the case, please (i.e. that his life will be harder than the prior generation). And even if it is, why should he be entitled to an easier life than the prior generation?

Fuck your assumption about me 'feeling entitled to better standards'. Try 'feeling pissed off about an unnecessary Great Depression'.

It seems that most people these days expect to go to university, graduate, and get a professional job. News flash: NOT EVERY ONE CAN WORK IN A PROFESSION! There will always be a need for trades, labour, and unskilled workers. The people that wind up "settling" for those jobs have had their dreams stolen? The "American Dream" only works for a few people because it is built on the backs of the rest. That's life. Young people need to learn that.

You should save this pent up rant for a thread that it actually applies to.

Yes, there are problems. Do something about it! Get active! Contact your governmental representatives, and get others to do so too (yes, politicians really do listen if enough people speak out).

We are ALL paying for the short-sightedness and greed of previous generations.

I am. I don't happen to post about all my activities to the internet. For example, it's pathetic to admit buying hundreds of tins of baked beans to offset rent costs in future periods without employment.

All of us, huh? You seem to think people sitting on their life savings (or already living off their pension) with decades of industry experience, having spent the best years of their lives in stability, are just as well off as those with practically nothing.

[Broomstick]

He was dreaming about gainful employment? Working as a construction labourer is gainful employment. Working in a service job is gainful employment. He clearly wasn't dreaming about that kind of work. Seems like he was dreaming of a life of leisure.

Funny, I didn't read his post that way.

And working construction or service is "gainful" only if it nets you a living wage - that is, enough for housing, food, clothing and other such essentials. I am NOT talking about a McMansion - I'm talking about a small apartment or trailer or some such. Got news for you, Trelane, a lot of those construction and service jobs out there are minimum wage or close to it, and that does NOT allow a living wage. I have to make three times the minimum wage to clear my bills each month, for my small apartment, my fuel-sipping car, etc. That's a problem. And I have no debt.

Given that kids these days leave college with $20-50K in debt how the FUCK are they supposed to get anywhere if all that's open to them is minimum wage grunt work? And in my area, not even that because they're competing against people such as myself who have experience and reliable track record to offer an employer.

Yeah, it IS perfectly reasonable to be pissed that your life will be harder - not just as hard, but HARDER - than prior generations.

Demonstrate that this is the case, please (i.e. that his life will be harder than the prior generation). And even if it is, why should he be entitled to an easier life than the prior generation?

How about a life no harder than the previous generation? How would THAT be unreasonable? I already stated above - entry-level jobs in any industry that pay a wage enabling one to live decently are in short supply. Your offerings of "construction" and "service" jobs is pathetic -- at best that's years of marginal existance. Right now the oversupply of labor is driving wages downward while prices are rising - yeah there is a LOT to bitch about, frankly. My life is harder that it was 5 years ago through no fault of my own. I took a 50% cut in income in November and it will soon be 100% if I don't get some sort of job - which I haven't been able to for 5 months. This is what young people are coming in to right now, and they have FAR more debt than I do because you are almost always compelled to take on debt to go to college in the US these days. Yes, they DO have a few things to bitch about. They did not make the dot.com bust, the S&L meltdown, Enron, the housing bubble, or the current economic shitstorm. It's NOT their fault but they have to deal with the consequences regardless. This is rather like when a tree falls on your house - it's not your fault, but it IS something to bitch about.

It seems that most people these days expect to go to university, graduate, and get a professional job. News flash: NOT EVERY ONE CAN WORK IN A PROFESSION! There will always be a need for trades, labour, and unskilled workers. The people that wind up "settling" for those jobs have had their dreams stolen? The "American Dream" only works for a few people because it is built on the backs of the rest. That's life. Young people need to learn that.

You got it wrong, mister. The "American Dream" was NOT every child in a profession, it's the idea that everyone can have a decent standard of living - adequate food, housing, clothing, and opportunity for education.

1n 1908 a man could go work for Henry Ford who had the odd notion of paying his workers enough money to buy the product they were building. Unskilled labor earned enough to get you a modest house and at least a lower-middle-class standard of living. Now it gives you just enough so you can't qualify for food stamps and you can't even rent a 1-room apartment in a city like Chicago. That's bullshit. That's NOT a change for the better. I remember when it was different, it's not an idealistic notion of history gleaned from a book, it REALLY WAS easier when I was just out of college, easier to get a job, get out of debt, earn enough to live on.

And when my 5yo daugther is screaming in agony and the doctors can't figure out what's wrong, I can't make myself give a shit about idiotic woe-is-me whining. Perspective.

I see. Because your daughter has a problem no one else could possible be in pain. How very self-centered of you.

You know, just because YOU might have a broken leg it doesn't mean Ryan's broken arm hurts less. You both got serious problems. Your talking about your daughter is just as "woe-is-me" as anyone else here bitching about their situation. Which, by the way, is NOT a invitation to a pissing contest about whose situation is worse, more worthy of sympathy, or what have you. It seems at least half of SD.net is going through hard times right now. I don't see the harm in letting people vent and I don't take it personally when an 18 year old or a 22 year old is thrust into the real world, takes his/her first adult look at things, and goes HOLY FUCK! THIS IS SERIOUS SHIT! It's a phase we all go through.

Prior generations DID make mistakes, they DID leave shit for their children to clean up - every generation does that. No, it's not fair that children are burdened with the mistakes of their parents but that's one of the sucky points of reality.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Henry Ford was no scion of the American Dream. He was a trustbusting, Jew-hating, Nazi-loving pile of dogshit. And I can't help but be amused by your Saul-to-Paul conversion since you tried to flog me for lamenting that the American Dream would be probably totally lost on my generation, and at least you knew something else.

[Ryan Thunder]

Prior generations DID make mistakes, they DID leave shit for their children to clean up - every generation does that. No, it's not fair that children are burdened with the mistakes of their parents but that's one of the sucky points of reality.

People will make mistakes. That is both inevitable and forgivable.

They need to, at the very least, recognize their responsibility for them, however...

[Broomstick]

Henry Ford was no scion of the American Dream. He was a trustbusting, Jew-hating, Nazi-loving pile of dogshit.

Yes, I am aware of that. So were many others of his generation. He was remarkable, however, in that he DID pay higher wages than many others at the time, which meant his workers were materially better off. Not millionaires, no, but the auto industry gave several generations of laborers some pretty nice living standards whatever other flaws they had (and there were many).

And I can't help but be amused by your Saul-to-Paul conversion since you tried to flog me for lamenting that the American Dream would be probably totally lost on my generation, and at least you knew something else.

My generation has plenty to be pissed about, too. And I don't think it's hopeless (I have to have hope, it's what keeps me getting up every morning and looking for work despite 5 months of "no, we don't need you.") The fact that it's going to be harder is no excuse for not trying.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Henry Ford was no scion of the American Dream. He was a trustbusting, Jew-hating, Nazi-loving pile of dogshit.

Yes, I am aware of that. So were many others of his generation. He was remarkable, however, in that he DID pay higher wages than many others at the time, which meant his workers were materially better off. Not millionaires, no, but the auto industry gave several generations of laborers some pretty nice living standards whatever other flaws they had (and there were many).

He only paid those wages briefly. He's just a bad example, period.

And I can't help but be amused by your Saul-to-Paul conversion since you tried to flog me for lamenting that the American Dream would be probably totally lost on my generation, and at least you knew something else.

My generation has plenty to be pissed about, too. And I don't think it's hopeless (I have to have hope, it's what keeps me getting up every morning and looking for work despite 5 months of "no, we don't need you.") The fact that it's going to be harder is no excuse for not trying.

No one ever said anything about not trying. I think its better to have tasted the honey than to had smoke blown up your ass your entire life by the same class/generation who ate all the honey and ran up this huge bar tab and left you with the check. Being young and fucked is worse, because no matter how bad it gets, no one can take from you the good memories and experienced you did have and with your husband et al; some people, especially those younger than me, may be totally fucked and never got to know anything else. But ultimately its a subjective determination.

[Broomstick]

Henry Ford was no scion of the American Dream. He was a trustbusting, Jew-hating, Nazi-loving pile of dogshit.

Yes, I am aware of that. So were many others of his generation. He was remarkable, however, in that he DID pay higher wages than many others at the time, which meant his workers were materially better off. Not millionaires, no, but the auto industry gave several generations of laborers some pretty nice living standards whatever other flaws they had (and there were many).

He only paid those wages briefly. He's just a bad example, period.

There are probably no "good" (by our standards) examples from that time. By our standards just about everyone before 1960 was scum. There's this thing called "historical context". Even if those wages were only paid "briefly" he still paid them, which almost no one else did. I also have to doubt your implied thought here, that the people laboring in the auto factories were poorly paid. I grew up around Detroit. When the auto industry tanked so did everything else, but prior to that it wasn't just the big executives making money and the line workers living in tar-paper shacks - the wealth was spread around a lot more equally that was the norm in 1900, and I venture to say is the norm now.

[Broomstick]

No one ever said anything about not trying. I think its better to have tasted the honey than to had smoke blown up your ass your entire life by the same class/generation who ate all the honey and ran up this huge bar tab and left you with the check. Being young and fucked is worse, because no matter how bad it gets, no one can take from you the good memories and experienced you did have and with your husband et al; some people, especially those younger than me, may be totally fucked and never got to know anything else. But ultimately its a subjective determination.

You're making the assumption that we got some of the "honey" - by the time I got out of college there were already signs of deterioration. My generation has, on average, not done as well as our parents did. The "Baby Boomers" who got the best fruits of the orchard were the early ones - those on the tail end are frequently forgotten and often neglected. My parents bought their first house in their 30's - I have never owned one. Of my three sisters only one currently owns a house - the other two did at one point but the deceased sister was losing hers prior to her death (it may have been a contributing factor) and the other is now living in a small apartment with her two sons. I am the only one who has a pension from employment (not an "investment plan", an honest-to-Og pension, a "defined-benefit" plan) but in my parents working lifetimes that was almost the norm. My parents had have had health insurance all their lives. Of their children, only one has it at present and it's been on-again, off-again for all of us. Do you see some cracks in the facade there? I sure do. My father left college with no debt. I left college with about $3,500 in debt. How much do kids these days leave college with? $35,000?

The sad thing, like I said, is that it will only get worse. It wasn't smooth sailing for ANY generation, but there are some real obstacles young folks face that I didn't. On the other hand, don't imagine life 30 or 40 years ago was paradise, 'cause it wasn't.

[Big Phil]

My father left college with no debt. I left college with about $3,500 in debt. How much do kids these days leave college with? $35,000?

Let's be honest with ourselves though - why are kids leaving college with so much debt? Is it because all of a sudden college so much more expensive, or is it because kids no longer work while they're in college, or because every kid is told they must go to college or they're (essentially) failures, or is it because kids (and their parents) are dumbshits who don't think about how they're going to pay off $50K in student loans with an English degree from a liberal arts college? Or maybe it's a little bit of all of those, and not just any single cause?

My own sister-in-law is a perfect example - she's bypassing a cheap ($7000/year tuition - you can work part-time and pay tuition, or full time in the summer, and graduate with no debt) public university education in favor of a private school education because the private school offers the degree she wants - Creative Writing. She's given no thought to the fact that she'll graduate with ONLY $50,000 in student loan debt, and has ignored friends of ours with similar degrees telling her that unless she gets a post-graduate degree she will have very, very limited employment opportunities, barring amazing luck. So assuming she goes on to post-grad, she'll finish school six or seven years from now with a Creative Writing Undergraduate degree, some sort of post-graduate degree, and a minimum of $50k in student loan debt, and more likely something like $100K, and only able to get jobs paying somewhere in the realm of $30K-$60K (the lower end is more likely than the higher end). This is the sort of decision making I see kids 16-24 making, and she's smarter than most of her friends.

[Broomstick]

My father left college with no debt. I left college with about $3,500 in debt. How much do kids these days leave college with? $35,000?

Let's be honest with ourselves though - why are kids leaving college with so much debt? Is it because all of a sudden college so much more expensive, or is it because kids no longer work while they're in college, or because every kid is told they must go to college or they're (essentially) failures, or is it because kids (and their parents) are dumbshits who don't think about how they're going to pay off $50K in student loans with an English degree from a liberal arts college? Or maybe it's a little bit of all of those, and not just any single cause?

Try all of the above.

You also forgot to add the devaluing of junior/community colleges in the eyes of parents and employers, thus driving people to opt for a "name brand " education.

Tuition has gone up about 10-fold since I was in college - but wages have not. The response was not to reign in college costs or find lower-cost alternatives to college but to increase the amount of money students could borrow.

In addition to the you-must-go-to-college meme there is another that says you-must-go-to-college-right-after-high-school even if working a few years and saving money might be a better course for a lot of people - and that used to be a more commonly taken option.

Just about the only profession I can see ranking up 100k+ in debt are doctors (my sister's MD I think left her with close to 200k, actually, but I'm not sure) because THEY are likely to get relatively high-paying jobs shortly after graduation. Even so, medical debt does drive some docs out of family/general practice into higher paying specialties. There are also programs to "forgive" some medical school debt in return for a promise to serve in areas with doctor shortages (my college roommate who became a doctor did just that, it worked out well for all concerned). You don't get that with a "creative writing" degree.

I, too, wonder about kids racking up debt for a degree like that. When I was in college, getting my Fine Arts degree (another one of questionable worth) we were also educated about how to "sell" that to an employer (which, oddly enough, HAS worked a few times in my case) as well as the importance of having a fall-back skill (in my case, typing, although that's not so useful as it once was, before everyone learned to type and we got spelling correction software in place of liquid paper). As an example, I knew a woman who did steel sculpture who was able to get a job because of her welding skills. Businesses DO have a need for people with writing skills, including the ability to be original, but you have to have some clue how to "spin" that, which jobs to look for, and no illusions that you'll be doing anything but what your employer wants done.

[Broomstick]

Back more to the original topic...

Food prices are having an impact on the US, which, despite current economic woes, is still arguably the wealthiest nation on Earth:

From CNN

Steadily rising food costs aren't just causing grocery shoppers to do a double-take at the checkout line -- they're also changing the very ways we feed our families.

Chrystal Kennery shops at a surplus grocery store in New Holland, Pennsylvania.

The worst case of food inflation in nearly 20 years has more Americans giving up restaurant meals to eat at home. We're buying fewer luxury food items, eating more leftovers and buying more store brands instead of name-brand items.

For Peggy and David Valdez of Houston, feeding their family of four means scouring grocer ads for the best prices, taking fewer trips as a way to save gas and simply buying less food, period.

"We do more selecting, looking around, seeing which prices are cheaper," said David Valdez. "We are being more selective. We have got to find the cheapest price."

Record-high energy, corn and wheat prices in the past year have led to sticker shock in the grocery aisles. At $1.32, the average price of a loaf of bread has increased 32 percent since January 2005. In the last year alone, the average price of carton of eggs has increased almost 50 percent.

Ground beef, milk, chicken, apples, tomatoes, lettuce, coffee and orange juice are among the staples that cost more these days, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Overall, food prices rose nearly 5 percent in 2007, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. That means a pound of coffee, on average, cost 57 cents more at year's end than in 2006. A 12-ounce can of frozen, concentrated orange juice now averages $2.53 -- a 67-cent increase in just two years.

And a carton of grade A, large eggs will set you back $2.17. That's an increase of nearly $1 since February, 2006.

"The economy is having a definite impact on shopper behavior," said Tim Hammonds, president and chief executive officer of the Food Marketing Institute, a retail trade group. "People are significantly changing what they do."

Soaring prices are causing shoppers to rethink long-held habits such as store loyalty.

Wal-Mart and other supercenters that sell food now account for 24 percent of the market, according to the most recent annual survey of shopping habits by Hammonds' organization.

Gina Pierson, a music teacher in Columbia, Missosuri, buys her family's staples at local grocery stores but makes regular trips to Wal-Mart to supplement the weekly shopping list. Like many families struggling to get by, Pierson and her husband, a public school teacher, are adjusting their approach to buying, cooking and eating food. Restaurant meals are now almost a luxury.

"Between food and gas, it's just cheaper to stay home," she said.

In 2007, the FMI survey showed the average number of weekly shopping trips falling below two per household for the first time.

Paula Curtis, a mental health worker in Montpelier, Vermont, said her grocery bill has been steadily climbing by $10 to $20 a week. She has cut back on meat, fruit, vegetables and snack food, and buys milk at the gas station, where she said it's cheaper.

"Every time I go, it's more and more," she said. "I make a list, but I don't necessarily get everything on it because I can't afford everything."

Nationwide, a family of four on a moderate-cost shopping plan now spends an average of $904 each month for groceries, an $80 increase from two years ago, according to the USDA.

Those who can't absorb the added expenses are increasingly seeking help from food pantries. America's Harvest, which distributes nearly two billion pounds of food and grocery products each year to more than 200 food banks across the country, estimates that its overall client load increased by 20 percent in the fourth quarter of 2007.

The jump has been even higher at the Central Missouri Food Bank's pantry in Columbia, a college town halfway between Kansas City and St. Louis.

The food pantry served 7,200 people in 2007, an increase of more than 50 percent over two years, said executive director Peggy Kirkpatrick.

Columbia used to be considered inflation-proof because of its high-paying university jobs and proximity to the state capital, 30 miles away in Jefferson City.

"That's not the case anymore," she said.

Shary Auer visits the Columbia food pantry once a month to help extend the family's $800 monthly food budget. The mother of five children, ages 9 to 19, is buying more canned food instead of fresh produce. Portions are smaller around the Auer dinner table, and salads are added regularly to stretch the servings of meat and poultry.

Auer, a part-time postal worker and supermarket cashier, said she fastidiously tracks food prices.

"I watch for sales, save my receipts and highlight what I save," she said.

Not all shoppers are struggling with the changes. At the Whole Foods Market in downtown Seattle, Beth Miller didn't think twice about paying $6.39 for a gallon of organic orange juice, or $4 for a dozen eggs at the store, which specializes in organic and natural foods.

"I'm used to having a small gasp at the cash register," said Miller, who favors local produce and organic food for her husband and 12-year-old son. "We try to be really careful about what we eat."

Among retailers, the surge in commodity prices -- from corn, now in high demand because of increased ethanol production, to wheat that has tripled in price over the past 10 months -- has some industry observers suggesting that higher food prices aren't a temporary fluctuation but instead may be here to stay.

"We don't exactly have a crystal ball," said Whole Foods' Perry Abbenante, a senior global grocery buyer. "But I'm not sure (prices) are going back. We're preparing for a new threshold.

If it's that bad in a wealthy nation, it must be horrible in some other places. Last night on the TV I thought I overheard something about food riots in the Asia/Pacific region. Don't have anything to link to, though.

[Darth Wong]

I had a $400 grocery trip a while ago. My kids' ravenous appetites are becoming a pretty large budget item.

[Wanderer]

Well I just cleared 24 acres of Oak Trees from my property. The Government can't make up its mind on what they want to pay me to grow.

I am about ready to just flip a coin. Heads, I'll grow wheat, Tails, I'll grow Corn. If for some reason I fail to catch the Coin, I'll grow Potatoes.