Can we take back Earth?

[Laird]

I was recently watching Starship troopers the movie, I know this debate has gone on, and on. "How big of a slaughter would it be for modern militarizes to take on the bugs?". Here is the situation the movie bugs have managed to invade and kill off the human populations in the middle east, most of africa, south america, and are invading Mexico, parts of Asia. Could the combined militarizes of Canada, USA, Russia, EU, and China take back the Earth?

You may outfit your ground troops with small arms and ammunition you feel will be the best to deal with warriors, use of biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons is allowed; however, the areas that are invaded are of strategic importance due to resources.(oil, minerals, what have you?) to just "nuking the place till it is glass" isn't going to work, since the bugs have dug in and have a huge tunnel network.

What would you do think would happen?

[Invictus ChiKen]

The movie MI are idiots. They destroyed there own fleet from attempting something as simple as a four lane change.

There tactics are walking around in a big group, running at stuff in a big group and running away from stuff in a big group.

Combined arms should handle them with no problem. Troops and armored fighting vehicles tie them up, artillery pounds then and helicopters give supporting fire with jets take out the really big ones.

We'll be done by dinner.

(The OP was a little odd it states companied militarizes of Canada, USA, Russia, EU and China. But then talks about arming troops with only small arms. Then mentions nukes.)

[CaptHawkeye]

You shouldn't use the situation the MI got itself into as an analouge for real life military tactics because they aren't NEARLY alike. The MI is made up of a bunch of RETARDS.

Besides, the fact that we're limiting Earth's militaries to small arms is just a concession that they would get steamrolled by modern military forces effortlessly. Even if we go along with this absurdly biased scenario, modern military forces are still WAAAY better than the MI.

For christ sake, the bugs have TEETH AND CLAWS. They're *resistant* to typical infantry small arms but they sure as hell aren't invincible to them. Explosives, napalm, and chemicals still do all sorts of nasty things to them. Bug tunnels? Grab some C4 and close all of the tunnels. Tanker Bug? Rico's assault rifle was able to penetrate its hide and then he ruled it with a hand grenade. I doubt a Tanker Bug would fare much better against an AT-4 or an RPG.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Fuck an RPG, considering a hand grenade literally blew it's head off i bet you could take one down using a grenade launcher mounted on an assault rifle.

Now i hear someone already saying "Well, if the Bugs were so weak, how come they were considered a threat to the Federation".

Well, first off, as Capt Hawkeye points out the Mobile Infantry is made up of blisteringly stupid people who have about the same level of combine arms tactics as cavemen. Secondly, and most importantly, they armed their ENTIRE army with only assault rifles, gave them no armor whatsoever, and had maybe one or two people carry a nuclear RPG. We have tanks, jets, helicopter gunships and thousands of artillery pieces...do the math.

[Laird]

maybe you guys are just blind, I didn't say armored vechiles, air support, or anything was banned. You just assumed I said "LOL! SEND IN THE IDIOTS WITH SMALL ARMS." It's a simple situation, if you want to try and send tanks or IFV's down into tunnels be my guest? If the bugs want to try and charge a row of tanks and get mowed down great? The question is how does the combined military forces above mentioned squash the invasion forces above and under ground?

[Darth Ruinus]

The question is how does the combined military forces above mentioned squash the invasion forces above and under ground?

Above ground has already been mentioned, they get torn a new one with our modern weaponry.

Below ground? Those bunker buster missiles we have, or Im sure we can cook up some type of nerve agent we can just chuck down there. Or just send squads down. They will still fare better than the MI in the movies did.

[Cecelia5578]

Christ, I'm tired of scenarios in which nukes are somewhat discouraged-there's no reason not to use nukes if the bugs are dug in, and limited tactical use isn't going to contaminate the world's oil or mineral supply in the affected regions to the point where those resources are unobtainable.

[avatarxprime]

He didn't say anything about not using nukes just that "nuking the place till it is glass" would be a bad idea.

[NecronLord]

What would you do think would happen?

We would die. Despite the Movie bugs appearing to have no spaceflight capacity (the 'asteroid' was supposedly launched by Earth to engineer a conflict, showing how credulous the morons who joined the MI really are) you've given it to them. Consequently, they can rain down asteroids on us with impunity, and there can be no victory.

Also, I wouldn't just write off their anti air; they can fart fire into space, if nothing else, this means their firey farts are capable of reaching very high levels of speed, and still damaging large spacecraft. If their fire-farters get line of sight on helicopters and jet planes (which must move at a positive crawl in comparison to the ships they were hitting at a greater distance) they could at the very least do serious damage.

[eyl]

Also, I wouldn't just write off their anti air; they can fart fire into space, if nothing else, this means their firey farts are capable of reaching very high levels of speed, and still damaging large spacecraft. If their fire-farters get line of sight on helicopters and jet planes (which must move at a positive crawl in comparison to the ships they were hitting at a greater distance) they could at the very least do serious damage.

It's been a while since I saw the movie, but IIRC the plasma bugs have a low rate of fire and their bolts move fairly slowly. While planes and helicopters move slowly compared to the ships in the movie, those ships were taking little evasive action - when they tried to do so, they crashed into each other. Helicopters might still be too slow to evade, but planes shouldn't have much trouble dodging the plasma, especially as it's nonguided and requires a direct hit to do damage. Helicopters can use terrain to screen themselves, as the bugs are limited to line-of-sight.

[NecronLord]

It's been a while since I saw the movie, but IIRC the plasma bugs have a low rate of fire and their bolts move fairly slowly.

Their bolts move with enough velocity to get into orbit. That in itself makes them very fast. I wouldn't be surprised if they were moving at escape velocity.

While planes and helicopters move slowly compared to the ships in the movie, those ships were taking little evasive action - when they tried to do so, they crashed into each other.

Again, even to maintain an LEO, those ships would have had to be going at several kilometers per second. No plane is capable of that, though it'd be at far shorter distances from the flatulence bugs, that doesn't necesserily mean they'd be incapable of traversing. Just because it's a stupid, stupid film, doesn't mean they're helpless; the best we can hope for here is to have them say 'fuck it' and exterminate us from space.

as the bugs are limited to line-of-sight.

We think.

[Keevan_Colton]

Some things about the ships in orbit and accuracy and giant fart bugs...

1. Orbits are wonderfully easy things to predict, it's why anti-sat weapons are mostly a matter of getting something high enough not really an issue of aiming...

2. It wasnt even like the farts were particularly aimed at individual ships, it looked to be more of a fill the sky with flak scenario.

3. The high speed argument works against any notion of it operating outside line of sight. All you need to do is look at the maths for trying to get a ballistic curve with speeds like that and you can see some serious problems hitting anything not in a straight line from you. The mass and speed would be such that you'd be limited to a stupidly shallow curve....or an absurdly long one.

[NecronLord]

2. It wasnt even like the farts were particularly aimed at individual ships, it looked to be more of a fill the sky with flak scenario.

I'm assuming there's a shitload of them, really. They're obviously not terribly accurate or fast firing; but they've got decent firepower and range.

3. The high speed argument works against any notion of it operating outside line of sight. All you need to do is look at the maths for trying to get a ballistic curve with speeds like that and you can see some serious problems hitting anything not in a straight line from you. The mass and speed would be such that you'd be limited to a stupidly shallow curve....or an absurdly long one.

Like I said, one can assume that they're restricted by line of sight, but as some intelligent selective breeding and control appears to be going on, I'd not be surprised if there's some kind of bug with mortar-like capabilities.

[SylasGaunt]

If you go by the Roughnecks animated series then Plasma Bugs fill that niche as well, but it's not exactly something that was ever seen in the movie.

[NecronLord]

If you go by the Roughnecks animated series then Plasma Bugs fill that niche as well, but it's not exactly something that was ever seen in the movie.

I think that gives all sides some brains, though.

[frogcurry]

Flamethrowers and other flame related weapons (i.e. the russian RPG warhead used in Chechnya for building clearance) would probably work quite nicely in the underground tunnel clearance role. I can't see bugs running into something that is spraying flame at them. Obviously independent air supplies would be needed by the troopers due to the eating up all the oxygen in a stagnant tunnel, but thats actually a bonus since it adds to the kill efficiency.

[Sidewinder]

Bug tunnels? Grab some C4 and close all of the tunnels.

A better idea would be to use the thermobaric weapons that were developed to collapse the Taliban's cave hideouts. Heavy bombers and air superiority for the win!

[NecronLord]

I can't see bugs running into something that is spraying flame at them.

They do have a species of bug that's a giant flamethrower. I'd imagine it's at least inured to the sight of flames.