Obama and his "Out of Touch" Remarks

[KlavoHunter]

I can't STAND how the media is spinning this. "Obama Gives Clinton an Opening" my ass.

Is it any surprise that they are? A close race generates lots of people buying newspapers or watching the nightly news; which means income for the media.

[Morilore]

Is it any surprise that they are? A close race generates lots of people buying newspapers or watching the nightly news; which means income for the media.

Pretending the race is close is one thing. Consistently fanwhoring for Hilldebeast is something else.

[Lord MJ]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

[Darth Wong]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

Do you personally know any Obama supporters who changed their minds because of what he said? I think the kind of person who would be most offended by what he said is already a McCain supporter anyway. Specifically, the kind of supporter who would vote for McCain no matter what he did, short of eating a live baby on TV.

[Cairber]

Hillary gave a speech yesterday wherein she painted herself in a way she thought the "small towners" would like. She talked about learning to use a gun and hunting ducks. A member of the audience stood up and told Hillary her son was paralyzed by a gun shot and wanted to know what Hillary would do about gun control.

I think that exchange was really telling about what issues matter to people right now.

in addition, Hillary tried giving out "I am not bitter" stickers at a rally in NC and reports are that not many took them and the campaign aides rushed the full sticker boxes back stage after the event.

[Lord Poe]

I can't STAND how the media is spinning this. "Obama Gives Clinton an Opening" my ass.

Oh come on, this is funny. Clinton is raising her fist behind McCain and saying, "Yeah! John is right! Obama is out of touch!"

McCain is hoping and praying that Clinton wins the Dem election, so he can have an opponent to easily run into the ground. And Hillary is so "out of touch" that she doesn't even see it coming.

in addition, Hillary tried giving out "I am not bitter" stickers at a rally in NC and reports are that not many took them and the campaign aides rushed the full sticker boxes back stage after the event.

Idiot. See, if Clinton was smart, she wouldn't have joined McCain's attack in the first place, and defended Obama.

[Broomstick]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

I am arguably of the very demographic that was supposed to be offended at these remarks and I can say that, not only was I NOT offended, I wish he'd speak up this way more often.

Why are you buying McCain's and Hildebeast's assertion that anyone was offended? People ARE bitter and angry, that is the truth, and I, for one, find it less offensive to have that out on the table, in the open, than to pretend everything is alright when it's not.

[FSTargetDrone]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

If the preacher thing didn't sink him, do you honestly think this will?

I think it would take something like a sex scandal at this point to negatively affect Obama.

[ArmorPierce]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

If the preacher thing didn't sink him, do you honestly think this will?

I think it would take something like a sex scandal at this point to negatively affect Obama.

Like the guy that claimed that he was Obama's gay lover?

[General Zod]

Like the guy that claimed that he was Obama's gay lover?

Generally, sex scandals actually involve having sex with people. As opposed to lunatics who merely claim that they have.

[SirNitram]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

Yep. This sure is alienating small town, rural folks.

So much so that there's speculation here in WV that we may have such a large percentage of county delegates for Obama, we might have a serious rules crisis if the state goes Hillary.

(WV has a wierd primary system. It's set up more for making sure ground-level activists can go to the convention and help shape state politics than actually influencing the Dem Primary; after all, they never last this long!)

[Ariphaos]

I can't STAND how the media is spinning this. "Obama Gives Clinton an Opening" my ass.

According to Rasmussen, he did - people reacted negatively to

they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations

The bitterness comment was very well received. Hillary went for the wrong hole.

I'd be a bit surprised if this didn't hit her a bit.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

Yep. This sure is alienating small town, rural folks.

So much so that there's speculation here in WV that we may have such a large percentage of county delegates for Obama, we might have a serious rules crisis if the state goes Hillary.

(WV has a wierd primary system. It's set up more for making sure ground-level activists can go to the convention and help shape state politics than actually influencing the Dem Primary; after all, they never last this long!)

Could you elaborate on the WV election process and how it could go horribly awry? I'm really enjoying learning about all the quirks of the primaries this time around. Just imagine if Romney and McCain had been similarly been splititng the vote.

[SirNitram]

Could you elaborate on the WV election process and how it could go horribly awry? I'm really enjoying learning about all the quirks of the primaries this time around. Just imagine if Romney and McCain had been similarly been splititng the vote.

The county's have people get together and elect delegates from them. That has largely been done. They go to the State Convention on June 13th.

The Primary is on May 13th. Dems and independents may vote. There are 28 delegates to grab.

10 of those delegates are selected by the Presidential Candidates, to accurately reflect the state popular vote.

That leaves 6 for each congressional district, split up by the votes in their district. Here's the fun bit: These delegates, unlike most Pledged, are selected at the State Convention earlier, by the county delegates. I wish to pause and emphasize something I found amusing. Anyone can be selected as a State Delegate from this, you just stand up and get voted for.


Now, with this out of the way, how could it go wrong? This is a 'binding' primary; no matter what Hillary says, these pledged are pledged. But if the overwhelming majority of the county delegates are decidedly pro-Obama(And the numbers I've seen put no county yet reporting in under 75% for him), this will cause worries about how tightly they'll stick with the pledge.

These were the rules going in. No one from any Prez camp complained. But Hillary declared Florida didn't and shouldn't count, and now she's screeching like a chorus about it, so.

[FSTargetDrone]

Obama had a few weeks of irritation with the preacher thing. Yet he came out on top, his speech following that nonsense was very well-received and he is doing even better in various polls, narrowing the gap between himself and Clinton.

They can't get him on being "anti-religion" because he's clearly a church-goer and obviously it's a big part of his life (see the preacher thing). So his opponents have to try for this false class or "elitism" nonsense.

It can't be said enough: The people who don't like him already aren't going to vote for him. They aren't going to vote less for him now.

[Darth Wong]

Mind you, the preacher scandal was incredibly lame. His preacher said something, not him or even anyone in his campaign. And what his preacher said was no more scandalous than what Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said, both of whom blamed American sin for 9/11. And yet those two fuckers are John McCain stalwarts, with nary a whiff of scandal in sight.

[FSTargetDrone]

Mind you, the preacher scandal was incredibly lame. His preacher said something, not him or even anyone in his campaign. And what his preacher said was no more scandalous than what Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said, both of whom blamed American sin for 9/11. And yet those two fuckers are John McCain stalwarts, with nary a whiff of scandal in sight.

That, and McCain actively sought out those endorsements.

[Qwerty 42]

Mind you, the preacher scandal was incredibly lame. His preacher said something, not him or even anyone in his campaign. And what his preacher said was no more scandalous than what Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said, both of whom blamed American sin for 9/11. And yet those two fuckers are John McCain stalwarts, with nary a whiff of scandal in sight.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, and this doesn't make a difference to anything, but wasn't Wright part of a liason committee with black churches?

[SirNitram]

Mind you, the preacher scandal was incredibly lame. His preacher said something, not him or even anyone in his campaign. And what his preacher said was no more scandalous than what Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said, both of whom blamed American sin for 9/11. And yet those two fuckers are John McCain stalwarts, with nary a whiff of scandal in sight.

That, and McCain actively sought out those endorsements.

Don't forget Hagee, who if I recall, is part of that whole Christians For Zion thing.

The one that wants to ensure that 90% of Jews die in fire and violence so they can get Jesus. You know, like a holocaust again.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

Why? He's stating a fact, a large number of Americans ARE bitter about politics, the evidence for this is all around us: How many people have you heard say they're not voting because all politicians are the same? Or that the Democratic candidates are as bad as the Republican, so they aren't voting?

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Umm... why exactly? Could you explain what's so horribly offensive about someone saying that the average working man feels the system is ignoring him and is pissed off about it?

Or did you get as far as "Clinton sez Obama's out of touch!" and stop reading?

I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around,

What is there to explain, you twit? Obama did what he's always done: Point out something that's wrong, completely truthfully, and state that he wants to try and change it. The entire 'apology' consisted of, "Well maybe I could have used nicer words to describe it."

and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

Do you have a shred of evidence to back this up? Clinton needs to pull off a fucking miracle in the remaining primaries to have a snowball's chance in hell of legitimately taking the nomination. If she steals it with anything less, it will result in the democrats becoming completely fractured.

I've noticed that people against Obama are actually taking a page from some of the more amusing trekkie debators: They fling as much shit as possible against the wall, hoping that some tiny little scrap of it will act as some sort of 'magic bullet' to take down the monolith they're trying to knock over with flying excrement.

[Lord MJ]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

Why? He's stating a fact, a large number of Americans ARE bitter about politics, the evidence for this is all around us: How many people have you heard say they're not voting because all politicians are the same? Or that the Democratic candidates are as bad as the Republican, so they aren't voting?

Well it's not just that he's said people are bitter which is pretty accurate. Where the offense comes in is where he is saying that people are clinging to guns, anti-immigration, and religion because they are bitter. Right or wrong, and regardless of the fact that the majority of people on this board won't have a problem with it, Joe Schmoe could very well have a problem with it.

Will rural Americans have a problem with it, it depends on the results of the next primaries. If Obama wins or Clinton only wins by a slim margin (which would reflect the state of polls before the comments were made) then we can safely say that the issue isn't a big deal, just like the Wright issue, however it should be noted that McCain will bring out both the Wright issue and these comments when the general election takes place.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

Mind you, the preacher scandal was incredibly lame. His preacher said something, not him or even anyone in his campaign. And what his preacher said was no more scandalous than what Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said, both of whom blamed American sin for 9/11. And yet those two fuckers are John McCain stalwarts, with nary a whiff of scandal in sight.

And the same people who would criticize Obama for that go even further than simply ignoring this and make endless apologies for Falwell and Robertson:
Example.

[SirNitram]

I'm an Obama supporter, but this could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know if people are buying Obama's explanation for his remarks this time around, and if Clinton does even moderately well in the upcoming primaries, I could honestly forsee the democrats pushing for Obama to drop out, they can't afford to alienate small town America in this election even if his comments were right and well meaning.

Why? He's stating a fact, a large number of Americans ARE bitter about politics, the evidence for this is all around us: How many people have you heard say they're not voting because all politicians are the same? Or that the Democratic candidates are as bad as the Republican, so they aren't voting?

Well it's not just that he's said people are bitter which is pretty accurate. Where the offense comes in is where he is saying that people are clinging to guns, anti-immigration, and religion because they are bitter. Right or wrong, and regardless of the fact that the majority of people on this board won't have a problem with it, Joe Schmoe could very well have a problem with it.

Will rural Americans have a problem with it, it depends on the results of the next primaries. If Obama wins or Clinton only wins by a slim margin (which would reflect the state of polls before the comments were made) then we can safely say that the issue isn't a big deal, just like the Wright issue, however it should be noted that McCain will bring out both the Wright issue and these comments when the general election takes place.

Crooks and Liars posted unedited video from Fox as they intrepidly sent their producers out to find people to be horrifically offended.

Link

So perhaps we can let this idea that it's somehow pissed off rural folk die? The people it pissed off are the entrenched aristocracy, who made their living off the situation Obama described.

[Lord MJ]

Umm... why exactly? Could you explain what's so horribly offensive about someone saying that the average working man feels the system is ignoring him and is pissed off about it?

Or did you get as far as "Clinton sez Obama's out of touch!" and stop reading?

Read above.

What is there to explain, you twit? Obama did what he's always done: Point out something that's wrong, completely truthfully, and state that he wants to try and change it. The entire 'apology' consisted of, "Well maybe I could have used nicer words to describe it."

Most of his apology was focused on the choosing a better choice of words than "bitter." Well he did try to explain the comments of people clinging to Religion, Anti-Immigrant sentiment, and guns, but I'm really not sure that will be enough.

But aside from that, I don't think this of course, but there is a theme arising here. Obama says something controversial, he delivers and eloquent speech explaining himself, then goes on. Now if this happens one time it, people would probably think he is right. But when this happens repeatedly it starts to add up. It's a logical fallacy but this is how people think. As I said, I don't think like this, but I am trying to put myself in other people's minds.

Do you have a shred of evidence to back this up? Clinton needs to pull off a fucking miracle in the remaining primaries to have a snowball's chance in hell of legitimately taking the nomination. If she steals it with anything less, it will result in the democrats becoming completely fractured.

I've noticed that people against Obama are actually taking a page from some of the more amusing trekkie debators: They fling as much shit as possible against the wall, hoping that some tiny little scrap of it will act as some sort of 'magic bullet' to take down the monolith they're trying to knock over with flying excrement.

As I said, if this flap dies down like the Wright thing did, then there would be no problem.

But suppose this issue causes the upcoming primaries to swing more to Clinton then they otherwise would've, then Democratic leaders will take notice. And in this case Delegate counts would not matter as much as the fight against McCain in the general election. The Democrats can afford to offend the rural voters, regardless of whether the comments are in fact correct.

That said, regardless of how bad Obama reputation may be tarnished, I don't think Hillary would ever in any set of circumstances be a much better hope of victory over McCain, but I can imagine a panicky desparate democratic leadership trying to do damage control and making stupid decisions as a result. Losing this presidential election after how awful Bush's presidency was will not bode well for the Democrats at all.