nBSG Episode 402: "Six of One"

[Deathstalker]

The Deathstalker is wondering if Xena, I mean D'anna gets reactivated and who she will side with. Lucy Lawless might be done with the show, but if she doesn't have any other gigs, she may come back.

[Vympel]

The Deathstalker is wondering if Xena, I mean D'anna gets reactivated and who she will side with. Lucy Lawless might be done with the show, but if she doesn't have any other gigs, she may come back.

Eh? Haven't you seen any S4 publicity pictures?

[Deathstalker]

And to add, does anyone else get the feeling from next week's trailer that Cally is going to end up on the wrong side of an airlock?

"What does Pres. Rosalyn do to Cylons?"
"Sends them out an airlock!"

"What do we do with traitors?"
"Send them out an airlock!"

"What do we do with eavesdroppers?"
"Send them out an airlock!"

The airlock, solving many of life's little problems.

[The Yosemite Bear]

If it ends up that Tigh is pushing that they should murder Cally just so they can keep their identities as Cylons secret, then my respect for him will drop by quite a lot.

Actually, I'd worry more about Cally being the 5th and final Cylon. I know, I know, sounds like shit. But I can't believe it is Roslin or either Adama. Baltar has his own little destiny to fulfill, so it won't be him. Same with Starbuck. And I'm wondering just when they're going to come around to dealing with the Cally/Chief baby thing. I know it's probably not her, but I'm running out of people that seem to fit the mold.

It's Dee, that way both Lee and Kara can fuck, after they realize that they both married toasters

[Spanky The Dolphin]

And to add, does anyone else get the feeling from next week's trailer that Cally is going to end up on the wrong side of an airlock?

That was actually some of my speculation earlier in the thread, but I spoilered it.

But now that it's in the open I'll repeat that if it ends up that Tigh is pushing that they should murder Cally just so they can keep their identities as Cylons secret, then my respect for him will be toast.

[Alex Moon]

Thanks, Spanky


The real question is how the Final Five got where they were so quickly. Tigh met Adama after the Cylon War, when they served on the same ship, and then Tigh rode Adama's coattails up the ranks. That means that the first HumanForms were prefected, or nearly so, within the first 5 years or so after the Truce, otherwise, how could Tigh be a Cylon? He's aged with Adama, like any normal human, getting to be a drunken crotchety old bastard with a cheating wife who he loved and hated and couldn't seem to live with or without.

I suspect that the final five aren't production models.

My suspicion is that the final five relate to the temple of Five on the algae planet. They were left behind by the thirteenth tribe. Either they've been watching the colonies the whole time, or they encountered them shortly before the war. After the cease-fire and the Cylon retreat, the Five guided Cylon development to create the Human Forms for their own purposes.

[Anguirus]

Apollo is even-minded? He was perhaps the loudest voice advocating the use of biologicals against the Cylons with the stated goal of wiping them out. In this respect he was notably more ruthless than Adama. He seems to have gotten used to Athena but at first he was extremely upset that Adama commissioned her as an officer.

Not that I think he's a Cylon or anything, but he wouldn't blink at slaughtering the Seven any more than Tigh would. (Though he may be shifting, as his comments to Adama indicate he might still love Starbuck even if she were a Cylon...but his comments still later indicates that he "believes" and therefore is pretty sure she is not one.)

[RedImperator]

BTW, when did Boomer become such a bitch anyway? I feel like I missed something in her character development somewhere in Season 3.

She's been bitter since the New Caprica debacle. It's not hard to imagine why; first she loses her human "family" on Galactica, then her peace movement gets perverted into a botched occupation, her ex-boyfriend is married to the woman who killed her, then she finds out Athena is not only riding her old ECO, she's been accepted by old man Adama and even given a commission. That last one especially has to burn. I'd be bitter too after all that.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Well personally, I think Romo Lamkin is the last Cylon.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I thought when Grace Park and Tricia Helfer showed up in C&C3 we deceided that Joe Kukan was the last Cylon...

[FireNexus]

I'm getting the feeling more and more that the cylons were found by the human forms and adapted to be useful to them. That's the only way that I can figure the centurions would allow themselves to be lobotomized by the human forms THEY created and basically be in the reverse situation they were originally.

Plus "The Original Programmers" sounds like it was a VERY long time ago, and I have a hard time believing that the amount of history described by the human forms happened in less than 30 years.

[Anguirus]

She's been bitter since the New Caprica debacle. It's not hard to imagine why; first she loses her human "family" on Galactica, then her peace movement gets perverted into a botched occupation, her ex-boyfriend is married to the woman who killed her, then she finds out Athena is not only riding her old ECO, she's been accepted by old man Adama and even given a commission. That last one especially has to burn. I'd be bitter too after all that.

I guess I see the logic, but it feels very sudden to me because no episodes featured Boomer between "Precipice" and "Rapture." I would imagine it would take a lot to turn Boomer into a "Kill All Humans!" advocate strong enough to buck the contrary wishes of her model line, and I don't feel like we've really seen that. What have the Cylons really done for Boomer? In "Downloaded" she still thought of herself as a Colonial, and the worst we've seen happen to her in the meantime is Cally being really mean to her. Then she STILL tried to stop Cally's execution.

Now she wants to kill all of the Colonials with Raiders. She hasn't had time to grow the mustache but she's already twirling it.

Anyway, I guess this is more of a pet peeve of mine. Devoting a subplot of an episode to why Boomer feels the way she does might make me stop complaining.

I have a hard time believing that the amount of history described by the human forms happened in less than 30 years.

Keep in mind that despite my skepticism about Boomer above, the Cylons as a society have shown the ability to move VERY quickly. In one sense they are rigid and move in lockstep, however when an idea does make it through they act on it very quickly.

Consider: in "Downloaded" Boomer and Caprica-Six change the entire Cylon policy regarding the Colonials in less than 72 hours, just by using their celebrity status to popularize the idea. They reverse course so quickly that an agent on Galactica is intentionally exposed (leading to his execution).

Then in "Lay Down Your Burdens Part II" the Cylons must decide almost instantly to occupy New Caprica, because they show up almost exactly a year after Cloud 9 is destroyed, and they pick up the radiation from a position one light-year away. They probably launched their big social experiment on the basis of one meeting.

In "Six of One" it is called out even more explicitly that the standard Cylon unity of models allows for major decisions to be made rapidly. After one informal meeting, one "consultation with our models," and one formal meeting, the Cylon equivalent of a warship crew makes a major foreign policy decision on behalf of their entire society.

In essence, the Cylons could have decided five years ago to erase their memories of the Final Five, and it would still feel like ancient history to them. They would have called a meeting or two, done it, and that would be that.

[RedImperator]

Was Boomer really "kill all humans"? The way I remember it, her rationale was more along the lines of "the humans are going to keep trying to kill us, and we need the raiders to be reliable".

[Gil Hamilton]

Was Boomer really "kill all humans"? The way I remember it, her rationale was more along the lines of "the humans are going to keep trying to kill us, and we need the raiders to be reliable".

Well, she said that they needed to be able to defend themselves, but "defending themselves" seems to translate to "kill all humans". There doesn't seem to be much difference between the two concepts from the Cylon perspective (which I believe #3 actually pointed out once).

[Anguirus]

It doesn't really go into her rationale. However, if anyone Boomer knows the tactical situation, having been on the other side of it...the Cylons have vastly superior forces, vastly superior jump drives, have a way to track the Colonial fleet, and if they needed to defend their holdings from a far-fetched Colonial resurgence they could nuke-spam with basestars.

Boomer says "We need to be able to defend ourselves" but I still get the impression that she's making an emotional decision.

[Uraniun235]

Knew what, man?

That the writers were going to put off bringing up the "oh hey let's send her off with a handful of dudes on a single ship to go see if she's right" idea so they could stretch out the "Starbuck is crazy" drama through this episode.

Although I certainly hadn't expected it to be one of the civilian ships! I thought it would have been a Raptor. Ah well.

[Thanas]

Well personally, I think Romo Lamkin is the last Cylon.

Lampkin? Well, Mark Sheppard is booked for an episode after all...

Boomer says "We need to be able to defend ourselves" but I still get the impression that she's making an emotional decision.

I think Boomer simply snapped when Cally shouted at her on New Caprica. Note how unhinged she became in the episode where Athena's baby was sick, even going to far as wanting to kill the child.

She is simply lost and I don't think she'd mind a little lobotomizing herself.

[Sam Or I]

Funny, I still kinda have faith in Boomer as a Colonial. I still think she is bitter, but I still think she sides with the Colonies.

It very well can be seen as she is trying to sabotage the cylons. Killing Athena's and Helo's child would through a wrench into the cylons plan. Looking at it from a saboteurs perspective, it would be much easier to destroy hordes of mindless drones vs creatures that learn each time they are killed. There is no telling when the raiders would go back to their usual selves. As a whole making stupider can be in her mind helping the colonies.

[Penfold]

Boomer says "We need to be able to defend ourselves" but I still get the impression that she's making an emotional decision.

I think Boomer simply snapped when Cally shouted at her on New Caprica. Note how unhinged she became in the episode where Athena's baby was sick, even going to far as wanting to kill the child.

She is simply lost and I don't think she'd mind a little lobotomizing herself.[/quote]

Watch "Rapture" again. The thing that sets her off is when Hera's endless crying, even while held by Boomer, stopped the moment she was in Athena's arms. Basically, take everything RedImperator said, but replace "riding her old ECO" with "has a perfect frakking family with her old ECO, which is what she should have had with the Chief by now".

The incident really highlights the differences between the two - everything that happens to Athena works out in the end, while everything Boomer touches turns to dust. In that moment, Boomer learns that she's a failure at being Sharon Valerii, while Athena, the imposter, is a success.

Then Caprica Six, her only supporter, breaks her neck because she tried to take her frustrations out on the baby.

She probably didn't need any input from Cavil to vote against the Sixes and Eights.

[Anguirus]

Eh, well, maybe I'm just stupid then. Regardless, I want to see more Boomer...which will probably happen as this "civil war" plot thickens.

[DrMckay]

I'll be really pissed if they kill off Cally.

As for the Lee moments, I liked them, for the music, and the reminisces in the briefing room. I hope they do something interesting with his character.

Lee (to Dee) : "Looks like you get to keep the house."

Also, I wonder what Baltar will say now, when someone tells him to: "Go frack yourself."

[TimothyC]

It was good, a solid 4/5, the Cylon Civil War plot if done well will help keep my interest up in the show.

[His Divine Shadow]

I found it quite interesting that the centurions are sentient, but dumbed down via some device. I wonder why they decided to do that in the first place?

[Uraniun235]

"God's plan"

I really, really hope we get an episode which goes into the origins of the Cylons.

[NecronLord]

Not seen it; but, previously I'd assumed that the Probert/oBSG Centurions had just uploaded themselves into meat, or retired somewhere, or were simply dead; but would this not suggest that they're actually (or were until recently) slaves somewhere?

Also, I wonder if one can destroy the affected raiders and have them download into unimpaired bodies, or if they're just fucked permanantly. I'll have to start watching this series again. I do love me some meatbag killing.